p.20 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
There is no doubt in my mind that this FF Sony Sensor combined with a Zeiss lens specifically designed for that sensor, will be a "Killer" combo with Spectacular IQ. After all - Fuji already proved that it can be done with that design approach - ( Even at only 12 megs, I will put my Fuji X100 IQ and ISO performance up against any camera out there). However, my Fuji with its great Hybrid VF (and the RX100 without one) also proved to me that I really like looking through a viewfinder to compose - not an LCD.
In the end - after several "Vacation/photo" trips with the Fugi - even though the 35mm focal length is my most favored perspective - being limited with only one focal length on hand - I was always wishing I had a 50 and or a 90 available.
I must conclude that both a viewfinder and interchangeable lenses are a must - particularly at a $3000 price point.
Congratulations Sony - you got the FF IQ machine we all want - now add a few extras and I will buy it.
p.20 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
The 36mpx might have corner issues and if that lens is even slightly have, it's going to look bad on a per pixel level. Given how many issues cropped up with the RX100 decentering, it probably would have been too risky.
I was not aware of the RX100 lens issues. Successfully creating an awesome, compact lens to take advantage of that 36MP sensor would, of course, also make a big statement.
One interesting comparison is to consider the $1K Sigma DP2M in comparisons to this RX1. The Sony will certainly offer many advaantages - such as exceptional high ISO quality, much higher frame rate/ operation and versatility in various lighting (no WB issues) - but at base ISO in daylight, I expect the DP2M will almost certainly out resolve the RX1. We also know the lens on the DP2M is phenomenal. So, Sony will be releasing a tour de force, compact FF P&S which has already been surpassed for 1/3 the price for at least some situations (ultimate resolution in bright daylight) by an APS P&S. Had Sony used the 36MP sensor, this would not have been the case.
p.20 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Oh I'm sure the DP2M will easily out resolve the RX100 but then again the DP2M is a bit bigger, much slower, has a prime lens, dodgy Adobe RAW support, and several other issues.
To me, the DP2M is an incredible camera good at doing 1 specific thing with a pain in the butt workflow, the RX100 is a general all around powerhouse for it's size.
p.20 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
at base ISO in daylight, I expect the DP2M will almost certainly out resolve the RX1. We also know the lens on the DP2M is phenomenal. So, Sony will be releasing a tour de force, compact FF P&S which has already been surpassed for 1/3 the price for at least some situations (ultimate resolution in bright daylight) by an APS P&S. Had Sony used the 36MP sensor, this would not have been the case.
Realistically, I think that argument has very little weight. With the RX1, we're looking at a high quality that is roughly 20.2" x 13.4". Who is really going to pick it up and thing, gosh, I'm not going to be able to print large enough with this? It's just pixel nonsense IMO. The high ISO and fast Zeiss lens is what will matter to people.
p.20 #5 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPen,
I too have been interested in the DP2M - definitely an ultimate IQ machine for $1000 - however, the handling, processing and ISO issues are too much for me to deal with.
I am more interested in the Fuji X-E1 - - - interchangeable lenses, a decent EVF, some very sharp lenses available and the same sensor as the X-Pro 1 which has a proven IQ that challenges many FF DSLRs. An X-E1 with the fantastic Fuji 35mm lens will run about $1600.
p.20 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
philber wrote:
I have put in a pre-order with my dealer. At that price level, with the components used, the results should be phenomenal, and 35mm is just my thing. I can't wait...
I agree 100%.
The only problem with this camera is that the digital component will become obsolete much much
sooner than the lens you could otherwise keep.
But... today's sensors reached the level of the quality you don't need to update anymore.
Or at least not that often.
Look, Pentax just updated their K5 and the sensor hasn't changed. Sure it's Pentax and they are
a dying kind, but still it's a sign. I've been using my 5N for more than a year and I don't see any reason
to go higher than those 16MP. Those 16MP are that good.
My problem is that one lens is somehow limiting... But I will get it too
p.20 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
ricardovaste wrote:
Realistically, I think that argument has very little weight. With the RX1, we're looking at a high quality that is roughly 20.2" x 13.4". Who is really going to pick it up and thing, gosh, I'm not going to be able to print large enough with this? It's just pixel nonsense IMO. The high ISO and fast Zeiss lens is what will matter to people.
You are absolutely right Ricardo - pixel nonsense it is. I would even double the size of the your estimated high quality print possible with the RX1 24 meg system.
p.20 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
ricardovaste wrote:
Realistically, I think that argument has very little weight. With the RX1, we're looking at a high quality that is roughly 20.2" x 13.4". Who is really going to pick it up and thing, gosh, I'm not going to be able to print large enough with this? It's just pixel nonsense IMO. The high ISO and fast Zeiss lens is what will matter to people.
The "who" would be me! I print larger than that by quite a bit so the appeal to me might be something along the lines of "what is the most firepower I can get in the smallest package for bright daylight situations and not have to bring along something huge". For high quality at 20" or less, an X100 (or any of the current 16MP APS based cameras really) fits the bill quite nicely in my experience. RX1 for that is sort of overkill already.
p.20 #9 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
The DP2M is a slow ancient feeling camera which is only great at base ISO. I've owned the DP2 in the past and they seem to have done nothing to improve the overal performance of the cameras.
Comparing it to this upcoming RX1 is like comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure the RX1 is much faster and will have fantastic high ISO performance. The battery will also last longer than 60-80 shots.
Adobe RAW handles the files just fine, with the sigma you have to use their Pro Photo software which is as slow as the camera itself. Really, you'll have to be a true zen master to not get annoyed by it.
I however do agree that the Sigma files at base ISO look great.
p.20 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
RickPerry wrote:
FlyPen,
I too have been interested in the DP2M - definitely an ultimate IQ machine for $1000 - however, the handling, processing and ISO issues are too much for me to deal with.
I am more interested in the Fuji X-E1 - - - interchangeable lenses, a decent EVF, some very sharp lenses available and the same sensor as the X-Pro 1 which has a proven IQ that challenges many FF DSLRs. An X-E1 with the fantastic Fuji 35mm lens will run about $1600.
imo, it would depend on what you plan to most often shoot. For landscape, the Fuji xtrans sensors sort of suck (at least in my testing) at the moment (until Fuji addresses the issue), particularly compared to something like the one in the RX1 or DP2M or even the NEX-7. All of these cameras will trounce the Fuji's in resolving fine distant detail of irregular shapes (such as foliage, tree leaves). For closer subject matter, people and general shooting, the current xtrans based Fuji's are terrific (particularly if you routinely need high ISO).
The most versatile of all of the above would certainly be this new RX1 (if the lens proves good). Every single one of the above options except the RX1 has an obvious drawback which makes it not the best choice for certain uses.
p.20 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Jochenb wrote:
The DP2M is a slow ancient feeling camera which is only great at base ISO. I've owned the DP2 in the past and they seem to have done nothing to improve the overal performance of the cameras.
Comparing it to this upcoming RX1 is like comparing apples and oranges. I'm sure the RX1 is much faster and will have fantastic high ISO performance. The battery will also last longer than 60-80 shots.
Adobe RAW handles the files just fine, with the sigma you have to use their Pro Photo software which is as slow as the camera itself. Really, you'll have to be a true zen master to not get annoyed by it.
I however do agree that the Sigma files at base ISO look great. ...Show more →
Yes, agree. The last point is what will make the suffering worth it for a few.
p.20 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
snowboarder wrote:
The only problem with this camera is that the digital component will become obsolete much much
sooner than the lens you could otherwise keep.
That's actually a really good point.
I've been thinking it over and I'm just not sure if I should move away from the NEX-7 ZA24 solution. There's an upcoming Olympus 17mm lens for MFT but it's only F1.8 and I doubt it'll be close to the performance of NEX+Zeiss.
p.20 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Every single one of the above options except the RX1 has an obvious drawback which makes it not the best choice for certain uses.
I would say it the other way around ... every one of these cameras has plenty of IQ and resolution for my needs. The ability to compose the image, and not be stuck with just one focal length far outweighs the slight differences in resolution and IQ available.
Take a look at the work of Edward Marcinek with an X Pro1.
p.20 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
I've been thinking it over and I'm just not sure if I should move away from the NEX-7 ZA24 solution. There's an upcoming Olympus 17mm lens for MFT but it's only F1.8 and I doubt it'll be close to the performance of NEX+Zeiss.
It might perform better than expected. Current rumors are stating that it's supposed to be a high quality lens like 12mm f2.0 or 75mm f1.8.
p.20 #17 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
RickPerry wrote:
I would say it the other way around ... every one of these cameras has plenty of IQ and resolution for my needs. The ability to compose the image, and not be stuck with just one focal length far outweighs the slight differences in resolution and IQ available.
Take a look at the work of Edward Marcinek with an X Pro1.
The difference in IQ between all of the cameras I mentioned depends greatly on subject matter. In some cases, it is slight, in other cases it can be huge. Shoot the DP2M at high ISO in tungsten light - Terrible. Shoot NEX-7 at high ISO with blue sky, convert to B&W and you will see really terrible noise/ banding in the sky. X-Pro1 printed at some of the larger sizes you can easily print with the others, watercolor effect on foliage and distant detail - easily noticeable above say 16"x20"'s (the others mentioned, when at their best can easily be printed at double that size for instance). So, it really depends on your use and what you intend to do with the images.
p.20 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
jonrock wrote:
It might perform better than expected. Current rumors are stating that it's supposed to be a high quality lens like 12mm f2.0 or 75mm f1.8.
Hmm I don't know, people seem to think that the 45mm F1.8 is AWESOME and I only thought it was Okay, not the best, not the worst, but you know good. It had slightly disappointing bokeh for what was supposed to be a portrait lens.
p.20 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
Oh wait, you mean the DP2M Out-resolving the RX1? Hmm I doubt it but I guess we'll see how strong that AA filter is.
So that would also mean you think the DP2M and SD1 will outresolve the A99, 5D3, D3x, and D600, I just don't think it will.
At it's best, it should just out-resolve a bayer 24MP sensor. Most everyone agrees it's ability to resolve is equel to a bayer based sensor of somewhere between 28-30MP's. After playing with the DP2M images, I think the only thing currently around that does outresolve it is the NIkon D800E. Of course, that's with the DP2M being shot and processed at it's best (in that limited area of base ISO, daylight WB with proper processing).
I print larger than that by quite a bit so the appeal to me might be something along the lines of "what is the most firepower I can get in the smallest package for bright daylight situations and not have to bring along something huge". For high quality at 20" or less, an X100 (or any of the current 16MP APS based cameras really) fits the bill quite nicely in my experience. RX1 for that is sort of overkill already.