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Archive 2012NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
p.4 #1NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
hiepphotog wrote:
Thank you for the technical explanation. I do understand the limitations of the E-mount system. The question is whether it's possible to fit a full frame sensor in. Sony already shows that the VG-900 is going to be a full frame NEX camcorder. My intended purpose for this full frame camera would be a digital back for my SLR lenses, so whether Sony can come up with a native lens for this FF is irrelevant.
HaHa! I doubt Sony is interested in making a FF NEX to act as a digital back for you.
Lenses are where the $$$ is.
That is why I don't think Sony would make a camera system where Zeiss will sell the lenses under their name only, unless Zeiss pays some per lens licensing fee to Sony.
Thank you for the technical explanation. I do understand the limitations of the E-mount system. The question is whether it's possible to fit a full frame sensor in. Sony already shows that the VG-900 is going to be a full frame NEX camcorder. My intended purpose for this full frame camera would be a digital back for my SLR lenses, so whether Sony can come up with a native lens for this FF is irrelevant.
HaHa! I doubt Sony is interested in making a FF NEX to act as a digital back for you.
Lenses are where the $$$ is.
That is why I don't think Sony would make a camera system where Zeiss will sell the lenses under their name only, unless Zeiss pays some per lens licensing fee to Sony.
Sep 08, 2012 at 09:14 PM
p.4 #2NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
wayne seltzer wrote:
HaHa! I doubt Sony is interested in making a FF NEX to act as a digital back for you.
Lenses are where the $$$ is.
That is why I don't think Sony would make a camera system where Zeiss will sell the lenses under their name only, unless Zeiss pays some per lens licensing fee to Sony.
Sure, but Sony would love to be the first on the market to do something, even if it doesn't ultimately work
Mirrorless being a digital back for alt lenses is an unavoidable consequence, no matter the sensor size.
So I believe that Sony will make the first FF mirrorless, even if just to prove they can do it.
hiepphotog wrote
Thank you for the technical explanation. I do understand the limitations of the E-mount system. The question is whether it's possible to fit a full frame sensor in. Sony already shows that the VG-900 is going to be a full frame NEX camcorder. My intended purpose for this full frame camera would be a digital back for my SLR lenses, so whether Sony can come up with a native lens for this FF is irrelevant.Lenses are where the $$$ is.
That is why I don't think Sony would make a camera system where Zeiss will sell the lenses under their name only, unless Zeiss pays some per lens licensing fee to Sony.
Sure, but Sony would love to be the first on the market to do something, even if it doesn't ultimately work
Mirrorless being a digital back for alt lenses is an unavoidable consequence, no matter the sensor size.
So I believe that Sony will make the first FF mirrorless, even if just to prove they can do it.
Sep 08, 2012 at 09:32 PM
p.4 #3NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
We shall see since there is no concrete info to support either way (though the FF camcorder does give a strong hint). Nonetheless, it's just a matter of time.
Sep 08, 2012 at 09:47 PM
p.4 #4NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
snapsy wrote:
theSuede knows his stuff but http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ has such a great track record with their rumors. Is it possible that Sony has engineered a solution that allows more clearance for FF while keeping backward compatibility with e-mount?
the mount will work fine, the lenses just won't be that small if they are to perform well and autofocus. rangefinder wides will still be able to be mounted, they just will have poor corner performance.
theSuede knows his stuff but http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ has such a great track record with their rumors. Is it possible that Sony has engineered a solution that allows more clearance for FF while keeping backward compatibility with e-mount?
the mount will work fine, the lenses just won't be that small if they are to perform well and autofocus. rangefinder wides will still be able to be mounted, they just will have poor corner performance.
Sep 08, 2012 at 09:55 PM
p.4 #5NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
sebboh wrote:
the mount will work fine, the lenses just won't be that small if they are to perform well and autofocus. rangefinder wides will still be able to be mounted, they just will have poor corner performance.
I think it's the sensor technology that has to, and will improve.
Already on the Ricoh GXR I have no problem with any of the ZM lenses, no color shift whatsoever, even with lenses that go deep inside the mount like the 25/2.8 and 18/4. I'm sure the angle of incidence is greater than 20 degrees. Of course it is not FF, but all other APS sized cameras suffer from the color shift, even the Nex 5. So I have no doubt that a FF sensor fully compatible with extreme incidence angles is very possible, perhaps already exists (M10?) and most probably made by Sony
snapsy wrote
theSuede knows his stuff but http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ has such a great track record with their rumors. Is it possible that Sony has engineered a solution that allows more clearance for FF while keeping backward compatibility with e-mount?I think it's the sensor technology that has to, and will improve.
Already on the Ricoh GXR I have no problem with any of the ZM lenses, no color shift whatsoever, even with lenses that go deep inside the mount like the 25/2.8 and 18/4. I'm sure the angle of incidence is greater than 20 degrees. Of course it is not FF, but all other APS sized cameras suffer from the color shift, even the Nex 5. So I have no doubt that a FF sensor fully compatible with extreme incidence angles is very possible, perhaps already exists (M10?) and most probably made by Sony
Sep 08, 2012 at 10:12 PM
p.4 #6NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
Even if the corners are dark such that is only useful as a 1.3x I'd be happy, vs. very happy.
Sep 08, 2012 at 10:55 PM
p.4 #8NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
snapsy wrote:
Here it is:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/amazing-sony-rx1-mirrorless-leaks-and-so-new-a99-pics/
that looks pretty awesome, not a FF csc yet, but pretty f**kin awesome. i await specs and price.
Here it is:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/amazing-sony-rx1-mirrorless-leaks-and-so-new-a99-pics/
that looks pretty awesome, not a FF csc yet, but pretty f**kin awesome. i await specs and price.
Sep 09, 2012 at 10:40 AM
p.4 #9NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
As much as I hope for an FF NEX, I am remaining skeptical.
SONY just as Canikon and others release photo products for Japanese market first hand. They never listened to foreign photographers and never will.
What would push them is probably Zeiss or some other non-Japanese company releasing and affordable mirrorless FF camera.
SONY just as Canikon and others release photo products for Japanese market first hand. They never listened to foreign photographers and never will.
What would push them is probably Zeiss or some other non-Japanese company releasing and affordable mirrorless FF camera.
Sep 09, 2012 at 10:43 AM
p.4 #10NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
snowboarder wrote:
In this case I don't see how M10 could sell well.
If I have a choice and can get a mirrorless FF camera to put my M glass on, I would never buy an M10. No way.
The only reason to get it for me is the FF sensor. I think I'll wait either way, even if the mysterious NEX is not FF.
You're probably right, a FF mirrorless NEX is coming, the only question - now or in 2013?
I think there must be some connection - Zeiss mystery ZM lens, Zeiss new mirrorless line, unknown "pro" NEX....
BTW M10 has to be really...Show more →
Funny how, despite the endless Leica bashing, the company is more profitable than Sony today and has been for several years.
"I won't buy an m10, but wait."
A courageous stance which happens to save you about 5k.
I'm on the same track but I don't fool myself into thinking its for any other reason than money.
I'd LOVE to try an M10, and would love to own an m9 now. But, for now, and the foreseeable future, they are out of my league.
3k for FF nex? That's a no brainer, unless it can't handle the M wides--which the first gen prolly won't.
How did those silly Leica people make it work?
Tariq Gibran wrote
Perhaps the upcoming Leica M10 will hold the answer as to what progress, if any, has been made with FF sensors and WA RF lens compatibility. If the M10 uses a Sony sensor that's more compatible, I suspect we will see a number of short flange, FF cameras...hopefully including a Zeiss Ikon D.If I have a choice and can get a mirrorless FF camera to put my M glass on, I would never buy an M10. No way.
The only reason to get it for me is the FF sensor. I think I'll wait either way, even if the mysterious NEX is not FF.
You're probably right, a FF mirrorless NEX is coming, the only question - now or in 2013?
I think there must be some connection - Zeiss mystery ZM lens, Zeiss new mirrorless line, unknown "pro" NEX....
BTW M10 has to be really...Show more →
Funny how, despite the endless Leica bashing, the company is more profitable than Sony today and has been for several years.
"I won't buy an m10, but wait."
A courageous stance which happens to save you about 5k.
I'm on the same track but I don't fool myself into thinking its for any other reason than money.
I'd LOVE to try an M10, and would love to own an m9 now. But, for now, and the foreseeable future, they are out of my league.
3k for FF nex? That's a no brainer, unless it can't handle the M wides--which the first gen prolly won't.
How did those silly Leica people make it work?
Sep 09, 2012 at 11:11 AM
p.4 #11NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
snapsy wrote:
theSuede knows his stuff but http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ has such a great track record with their rumors. Is it possible that Sony has engineered a solution that allows more clearance for FF while keeping backward compatibility with e-mount?
It is also quite possible that neither the VG-900 or any future "FF-NEX" are fully 36x24mm - but slightly less? Just a mm or two in outer radiuses would make a world of difference. In the video camera this is almost certainly the case. The active area on the sensor they call "FF" will be more like 33.0x18.5mm for a 16:9 digital sensor- this would comply perfectly with the old film based frame standards. I wouldn't see that as a problem in the E-mount. It would be tight, but not impossible.
edwardkaraa wrote:
I think it's the sensor technology that has to, and will improve.
Already on the Ricoh GXR I have no problem with any of the ZM lenses, no color shift whatsoever, even with lenses that go deep inside the mount like the 25/2.8 and 18/4. I'm sure the angle of incidence is greater than 20 degrees. Of course it is not FF, but all other APS sized cameras suffer from the color shift, even the Nex 5. So I have no doubt that a FF sensor fully compatible with extreme incidence angles is very possible, perhaps already exists (M10?) and...Show more →
Certainly.
At the average pixel densities we're at today, the angles are a problem - IF nothing changes. There are several different strategies being tried (and they're well past beta-production stages) that minimizes corner smear due to incident angles. One of them (and the most obvious one!) :-) is to minimize the amount of coverglass thickness needed in front of the sensor surface. You can strip about 40-50% of the filter package thickness jus by using better materials.
theSuede knows his stuff but http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ has such a great track record with their rumors. Is it possible that Sony has engineered a solution that allows more clearance for FF while keeping backward compatibility with e-mount?
It is also quite possible that neither the VG-900 or any future "FF-NEX" are fully 36x24mm - but slightly less? Just a mm or two in outer radiuses would make a world of difference. In the video camera this is almost certainly the case. The active area on the sensor they call "FF" will be more like 33.0x18.5mm for a 16:9 digital sensor- this would comply perfectly with the old film based frame standards. I wouldn't see that as a problem in the E-mount. It would be tight, but not impossible.
edwardkaraa wrote:
I think it's the sensor technology that has to, and will improve.
Already on the Ricoh GXR I have no problem with any of the ZM lenses, no color shift whatsoever, even with lenses that go deep inside the mount like the 25/2.8 and 18/4. I'm sure the angle of incidence is greater than 20 degrees. Of course it is not FF, but all other APS sized cameras suffer from the color shift, even the Nex 5. So I have no doubt that a FF sensor fully compatible with extreme incidence angles is very possible, perhaps already exists (M10?) and...Show more →
Certainly.
At the average pixel densities we're at today, the angles are a problem - IF nothing changes. There are several different strategies being tried (and they're well past beta-production stages) that minimizes corner smear due to incident angles. One of them (and the most obvious one!) :-) is to minimize the amount of coverglass thickness needed in front of the sensor surface. You can strip about 40-50% of the filter package thickness jus by using better materials.
Sep 09, 2012 at 11:31 AM
p.4 #12NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
uhoh7 wrote:
How did those silly Leica people make it work?
Very thin cover glass and offset micro lenses. They don't have to take any lenses into account other than their own, so I guess they figured out the best compromise for the offset, which might be very different for a camera which has mostly tele centric lenses, like the NEX system.
How did those silly Leica people make it work?
Very thin cover glass and offset micro lenses. They don't have to take any lenses into account other than their own, so I guess they figured out the best compromise for the offset, which might be very different for a camera which has mostly tele centric lenses, like the NEX system.
Sep 09, 2012 at 11:43 AM
p.4 #13NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
... thx ...
big money spending is shifted somewhere in the future ...
big money spending is shifted somewhere in the future ...
Sep 09, 2012 at 11:44 AM
p.4 #14NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
carstenw wrote:
Very thin cover glass and offset micro lenses. They don't have to take any lenses into account other than their own, so I guess they figured out the best compromise for the offset, which might be very different for a camera which has mostly tele centric lenses, like the NEX system.
And of course at Leica prices they can afford to use more expensive materials for the filter pack/cover glass.
uhoh7 wrote
How did those silly Leica people make it work?And of course at Leica prices they can afford to use more expensive materials for the filter pack/cover glass.
Sep 09, 2012 at 01:25 PM
p.4 #15NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
A FF P&S? for $2800? Not quite sure what the market size is for that. Makes me think they wanted a switchable lens system, but could get all the issues worked out so they launched a fixed lens version instead.
Good for them pushing the edge of the envelope. Hope that it is just an opening salvo towards Leica and Fuji and gets Nikon and Canon thinking outside the mirror box for high performance systems.
Good for them pushing the edge of the envelope. Hope that it is just an opening salvo towards Leica and Fuji and gets Nikon and Canon thinking outside the mirror box for high performance systems.
Sep 09, 2012 at 05:22 PM
p.4 #16NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
mawz wrote:
Very thin cover glass and offset micro lenses. They don't have to take any lenses into account other than their own, so I guess they figured out the best compromise for the offset, which might be very different for a camera which has mostly tele centric lenses, like the NEX system.And of course at Leica prices they can afford to use more expensive materials for the filter pack/cover glass.
Seems like I recall theSuede once saying that Leica actually uses pretty pedestrian/ low quality materials for the filter pack. What Leica does rely on is a lot of software correction for their wides.
carstenw wrote
uhoh7 wrote
How did those silly Leica people make it work?Seems like I recall theSuede once saying that Leica actually uses pretty pedestrian/ low quality materials for the filter pack. What Leica does rely on is a lot of software correction for their wides.
Sep 09, 2012 at 05:52 PM
p.4 #17NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Seems like I recall theSuede once saying that Leica actually uses pretty pedestrian/ low quality materials for the filter pack. What Leica does rely on is a lot of software correction for their wides.
IIRC that was the issue with the M8, the M9 was a different story mostly due to their experience with the M8 and its filtration issues.
Seems like I recall theSuede once saying that Leica actually uses pretty pedestrian/ low quality materials for the filter pack. What Leica does rely on is a lot of software correction for their wides.
IIRC that was the issue with the M8, the M9 was a different story mostly due to their experience with the M8 and its filtration issues.
Sep 09, 2012 at 06:23 PM
p.4 #18NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
mawz wrote:
IIRC that was the issue with the M8, the M9 was a different story mostly due to their experience with the M8 and its filtration issues.
theSuede was saying that about the M9, although it is better than the M8.
Tariq Gibran wrote
Seems like I recall theSuede once saying that Leica actually uses pretty pedestrian/ low quality materials for the filter pack. What Leica does rely on is a lot of software correction for their wides.theSuede was saying that about the M9, although it is better than the M8.
Sep 09, 2012 at 06:29 PM
p.4 #19NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
This is no "Pro NEX", so there is still hope, the rumor was next year for the FF NEX.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-rx1-costs-2799-same-a99-sensor/
I have been told there will be many accessories including optical and electronic viewfinders!
It looks nice, a zoom would have been a better choice for the price(a 35-70/2.8-3.5)
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1.gif
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-rx1-costs-2799-same-a99-sensor/
I have been told there will be many accessories including optical and electronic viewfinders!
It looks nice, a zoom would have been a better choice for the price(a 35-70/2.8-3.5)
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1.gif
Sep 09, 2012 at 09:45 PM
p.4 #20NEX PRO announcment on Sept. 12th ?
LightShow wrote:
This is no "Pro NEX", so there is still hope, the rumor was next year for the FF NEX.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-rx1-costs-2799-same-a99-sensor/
It looks nice, a zoom would have been a better choice for the price(a 35-70/2.8-3.5)
http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1.gif
i definitely prefer the prime. i'd have no interest in such a zoom.
This is no "Pro NEX", so there is still hope, the rumor was next year for the FF NEX.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-rx1-costs-2799-same-a99-sensor/
Earlier quote
I have been told there will be many accessories including optical and electronic viewfinders!http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj524/picrumors/rx1.gif
i definitely prefer the prime. i'd have no interest in such a zoom.
Sep 09, 2012 at 09:55 PM