joelconner wrote:
Well, I would view the term "old timers" the same as Inku...because, honestly....most of the older shooters that I know that are NOT whining about newbies, etc
"are still killing it with their business (or at least paying the bills)
There is nothing more annoying than when I talk to other photographers or business owners when I ask them how business is going and I get a "not so great" response. It's a downer, totally. Be positive, I think it's healthy for everyone. No one likes negativity!
marti.g3 wrote:
Oh.........i was just wondering if you say business is great or business is lousy...that's all.
Normally I say business is lousy and I need more work =D. Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of mentality. Sometimes it backfires though because then I double-book stuff......
sboerup wrote:
There is nothing more annoying than when I talk to other photographers or business owners when I ask them how business is going and I get a "not so great" response. It's a downer, totally. Be positive, I think it's healthy for everyone. No one likes negativity!
Realy?! I prefer honesty. By that I mean not a person complaining all the time but a person telling me how it is. But you are American, I expect you also to not take the question literally when you are asking someone "how are you doing?" :-)
sboerup wrote:
There is nothing more annoying than when I talk to other photographers or business owners when I ask them how business is going and I get a "not so great" response. It's a downer, totally. Be positive
So are you saying you'd prefer that they lie to you so that you don't get "annoyed"?
Oh, I agree with you! And I'm American. I wouldn't be asking the person "how's business" if I didn't want to know the true answer. Who would ask the question and not want the truth unless they're just pretending to care.
I think the truth - even if it's bad - is more "healthy for everyone" than illusion.
I vote for always appearing in such a way that makes people want to hire you. For us, that usually means we should seem busy but not too busy, expensive but still down to earth, exceedingly happy to be alive and doing what we do, and genuinely excited for the people we're meeting.
Usually these feelings come pretty naturally so we're not putting anything on.... BUT even if we werent busy, or weren't excited for them, I'd still vote for appearing happy and excited at all times. That's not lying, that's just optimism. It's much more attractive than pessimism. That doesn't mean that I'm not bummed out if I just had a month of crappy weddings or lost a booking, it just means that I'm putting my best face forward and being optimistic. If its something I really need to talk about, there are lots of other people in my life to serve that role... and those usually aren't the same people who could help my business.
there is also a difference between who is asking. i would be more revealing to another photographer who sincerely asking than to a client. I would not want to appear to be desperate to get a job or negative in any way to clients as Tony said. It is good customer service to be nice and appear positive.
I would not want a grumpy photographer on my wedding. On the other hand if you are all the time negative about your job as a wedding photographer - dislike to want to work with people - business outlook is bad and so on - this will no matter how hard you will try come through more or less in your appearance to your clients. Someone who sincerely loves his job and is successful will appear in general more attractive to hire than someone who trys to fake it.
If I client would very specifically ask, how many bookings I have and my bookings are down I would probably tell him in the most positive way without lying.
Tony Hoffer wrote:
I vote for always appearing in such a way that makes people want to hire you. For us, that usually means we should seem busy but not too busy, expensive but still down to earth, exceedingly happy to be alive and doing what we do, and genuinely excited for the people we're meeting.
Usually these feelings come pretty naturally so we're not putting anything on.... BUT even if we werent busy, or weren't excited for them, I'd still vote for appearing happy and excited at all times. That's not lying, that's just optimism. It's much more attractive than pessimism. That doesn't mean that I'm not bummed out if I just had a month of crappy weddings or lost a booking, it just means that I'm putting my best face forward and being optimistic. If its something I really need to talk about, there are lots of other people in my life to serve that role... and those usually aren't the same people who could help my business....Show more →
You hit on a key word for me....pessimism......i inherited my father's continuous worrying about money and never being satisfied with the status quo. I hate that. That's what I have done all of my life. I worry too much. A worry wart.
marti.g3 wrote:
i inherited my father's continuous worrying about money and...
You didn't inherit anything. Those are all learned behaviors. Learn new healthier behaviors to substitute the old behaviors with, to add to what Inku's saying.
I had a major breakthrough some years ago when I realized how insidious these behaviors are that we pick up from our parents. We think it's normal because we never knew anything else. In fact, we think it so normal we don't even realize we're doing it. All. Our. Lives. It's like breathing. It's so deeply rooted. Until you're cognizant of it... and then you know what needs changing. Sounds like you know what needs changing. So take the next step. Don't be like those foolish ones who say they can't change, who say, "that's just the way I am."
Have you posted any of your work here lately? I'd love to see some examples of images that make you proud. With all of those years of experience under your belt, you must have been doing something right! You have to go back to the basics and rediscover what you loved about photography. When that love shines through your work, people will pay for it.
In other words... alright already with the pity party... let's see some of your good stuff! :-)
TheGE wrote:
You didn't inherit anything. Those are all learned behaviors. Learn new healthier behaviors to substitute the old behaviors with, to add to what Inku's saying.
I had a major breakthrough some years ago when I realized how insidious these behaviors are that we pick up from our parents. We think it's normal because we never knew anything else. In fact, we think it so normal we don't even realize we're doing it. All. Our. Lives. It's like breathing. It's so deeply rooted. Until you're cognizant of it... and then you know what needs changing. Sounds like you know what needs changing. So take the next step. Don't be like those foolish ones who say they can't change, who say, "that's just the way I am." ...Show more →
That's what I meant. I learned that from my father.
basianov wrote:
Have you posted any of your work here lately? I'd love to see some examples of images that make you proud. With all of those years of experience under your belt, you must have been doing something right! You have to go back to the basics and rediscover what you loved about photography. When that love shines through your work, people will pay for it.
In other words... alright already with the pity party... let's see some of your good stuff! :-)
Our views on life, how we interact with others, how we LIVE our life has a direct impact on our successes and failures. I'm not asking for any pity. I was a cop for 19 years. I did and saw shit that most people don't. I knew what it was like to shoot someone, be shot at, stabbed, beat, spend most of my time away from my family so that I could give them a decent life.
Wedding photography was so different than being a cop. It jaded me.
marti.g3 wrote:
Is maintaining an appearance that you are super busy and never letting on that things are slow a good thing for your business ? Should one lie and maintain to everyone that you're swamped with business even though you aren't ? If people see or think that you aren't they might tend to shy away from using your services.
An old friend in the business world recently shared this with me. What are your thoughts ?
I think that in your own local market other photographers know how busy you are or are not .. FB posts, blog entries, local chatter, seeing (or not seeing) you around at venues on weekends, etc. has a tendency to get the truth out regardless of what you tell other shooters. So that cat is always out of the bag.
As for clients I tell them the truth .. and the truth is that I'm always busy. Busy either working or trying to find work .. one or the other So it's a full time job all the time.
as someone who has looked for a wedding photographer recently (and booked Sergio M) I will add this:
being professional is more important than appearing busy - if you are professional than 'being busy' and successful is implied
I can see from blog posts if someone is busy or not (Tony H, perfect example)
important:
first inquiry-response cannot come soon enough
(we inquired with a few photographers who gave the impression they were letting us feel how lucky we should consider ourselves if we were able to communicate, let alone book them, needless to say, this did not work for us)
although we booked Sergio M for his photography, his one liner in the 'about section':
"let's be ourselves"
is very real and authentic and needless to say, struck a chord
automated response "wil get back to you asap" = good, it shows being organized and that possibly you are shooting a wedding but that immediately upon return you will respond - receiving a confirmation that the msg has arrived is comforting
general communication should be responded to quickly as well for that matter - my girlfriend, who is organizing the entire wedding, is under pressure, she expects (and receives) service = professional
lastly, the only sentiment to convey, in my opinion, is the one where the potential client feels special, because the photographer WANTS the business
So it's a full time job all the time.