p.7 #1 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
You meant high priced standard .
Tariq Gibran wrote:
All joking aside, anyone who shoots a mirrorless option should be glad the M digital exists as it does set a very high standard in many areas for the other players to aim for.
p.7 #4 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
One thing I haven't seen mentioned, Chuck, is shutter delay.
I have the X100 and love it (once I got it back from Fuji for the dreaded sticky blade issue.)
I can tell you that it renders shots which completely match your FPJ style.
I use mine at family events and all sorts of events and gatherings where I am not the primary photog, but wish to catch moments while remaining unobtrusive.
Anyway, my point is that while the majority of your FPJ shots have relatively static subjects, I do recall seeing some with a bit more activity. Just keep in mind that you have to predict behavior a bit, and you may miss critical moments here and there.
Again, the shots totally match your style in output, and having just one fixed lens is sometimes challenging, yet really liberating for what you are seeking.
p.7 #6 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
or 4 Fuji X Pros, or 6 OM-D's (with lenses of course) altern3 wrote:
With the price of M9 and a basic Leica lens you can buy two D800, some lenses and start a photography business.
p.7 #7 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
you never know, maybe one day you will be one of them That will probably fail, not exactly an industry I would want to get into unless I'm in the top 2% of the earners.
It seems that the OM-D has nearly two times less shutter lag than the x100. I was also surprised at all of the "other reasons to buy" the OM-D over the x100.
Now I just need to figure out where to get the funds
It seems that the OM-D has nearly two times less shutter lag than the x100. I was also surprised at all of the "other reasons to buy" the OM-D over the x100.
Now I just need to figure out where to get the funds
That's not quite the full story on shutter lag. Most of the time when I used the X100 to capture fast moving subjects such as my five year old, I pre-focused at the distance I knew I needed. I'm betting that's what most experienced X100 users do as well for street action or whatever. In that case, the X100 is close to FIVE times faster than the OM-D in shutter lag.
.014sec. vs .056 of the OMD. Pretty academic overall though given how fast both cameras can be when you learn how to use them at their best. The choice likely comes down to if you prefer the reality of an optical finder (as well as being able to view the action come into the frame since you can see outside of the captured area in the OVF window!) or you like the EVF.
p.7 #11 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
I met a semi-famous photog in the park shortly after the X100 released. He had one and was shooting with it. I had my GH1 and probably some lame old Zeiss C/Y lens. I asked if I could see it and he handed it over. We started talking about the viewfinder in the X100 and how it was real-time (optical). He nodded and said it was a terrible camera for timing shots tho. I explained about how my EVF was lagged all the time - which made it difficult sometimes to catch just that certain moment etc. and he replied that the X100 was probably the same or worse. I mentioned how some RF models had a greater than 100% view of the image area which would help with moving subjects and he just shook his head - I assume implying that the X100 is only 100% or maybe less than 100%. So there's no help there either.
He didn't explain why it was no good for action or shot timing and I've never been interested enough to try and find out. Now I have the GH2 which I think is better - with less EVF lag but I really don't know for sure as I've never really payed attention to it. Shooting almost only MF lenses I'm never affected by AF speed but I have noticed the EVF lag + Shutter lag on the GH1 from time to time (mostly in low-light).
I guess for shooting kid-moments this would matter somewhat. And I think reading all the specs in the world won't help you understand the actual differences. I think for this aspect you need to visit a camera shop and try that out specifically paying close attention to just that.
I dunno if this is a good idea or not but bringing a stop-watch with an analogue sweep hand with you to the shop might help?
p.7 #13 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
altern3 wrote:
With X200 a month away, buying a brand new X100 right now is basically setting oneself up for regret and a loss of at least $500 in resale value.
Unless, of course, there is something on the X100 which the X200 lacks... such as a bayer based sensor with high quality raw support. Unless Fuji works out the Xtrans raw issues, I would much prefer a traditional sensor myself.
p.7 #14 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
I just tried the above on the GH2 and then on the GH1 and cutting off all my preemptions I get 0.33s real world delay from half-press to actual acquisition on the GH2 and 0.39s real world actual delay on the GH1 (with the newest firmware). All over about 10 or 15 tries each. The closer I get to pressing the shutter at exactly as the hand was positioned the close it was to exactly those times - again self-eliminating any attempts at preemption.
So I guess the Gh1 and GH2 are the same. I assume human response (reaction time) is 0.1s as so many scientific studies claim. So subtracting the time my brain processed the signal to press and sent the message to my finger I guess the GH1 and GH2 both have a real-world lag-time of just a little over 0.2s.
I bet a DSLR would be about the same actually. Anyone with a DSLR got a stopwatch and wanna waste a few actuations finding out?
p.7 #15 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Bifurcator wrote:
I met a semi-famous photog in the park shortly after the X100 released. He had one and was shooting with it. I had my GH1 and probably some lame old Zeiss C/Y lens. I asked if I could see it and he handed it over. We started talking about the viewfinder in the X100 and how it was real-time (optical). He nodded and said it was a terrible camera for timing shots tho. I explained about how my EVF was lagged all the time - which made it difficult sometimes to catch just that certain moment etc. and he replied that the X100 was probably the same or worse. I mentioned how some RF models had a greater than 100% view of the image area which would help with moving subjects and he just shook his head - I assume implying that the X100 is only 100% or maybe less than 100%. So there's no help there either.
He didn't explain why it was no good for action or shot timing and I've never been interested enough to try and find out. Now I have the GH2 which I think is better - with less EVF lag but I really don't know for sure as I've never really payed attention to it. Shooting almost only MF lenses I'm never affected by AF speed but I have noticed the EVF lag + Shutter lag on the GH1 from time to time (mostly in low-light).
I guess for shooting kid-moments this would matter somewhat. And I think reading all the specs in the world won't help you understand the actual differences. I think for this aspect you need to visit a camera shop and try that out specifically paying close attention to just that.
I dunno if this is a good idea or not but bringing a stop-watch with an analogue sweep hand with you to the shop might help?
Since when does fame have anything to do with knowledge or know-how? Not saying he was not experienced with his X100 but it's certainly a possibility. Even famous people have to learn how to use things.
The window finder does show a lot of what's happening outside of the composition area AND the camera is very fast when it's used at it's best for capturing action (prefocused distance).
p.7 #17 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Bifurcator wrote:
K, you can't tell by me tho, I've never used one enough to know.
Got a stopwatch? Give it a try....
Digital works too BTW.
That's funny. I have never timed a camera in my life (well, we did play a game in photo school where we guessed the mechanical shutter speed form the sound of it but that's different!) - nor have any of the "famous" photographers I assisted long ago either. Honestly, it's all academic as I mentioned above once you know all the in's and out's of a particular tool. At that point, a decent photographer knows how to conjure anything they want out of it and a millisecond here or there is not going to matter nowhere near as much as skill and abilities.
p.7 #18 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
FlyPenFly wrote:
You know, personally I'd rather have an X2 than a X100... even at double.
I tried X2 and it did not show me any leica character.
This is probably not the best example to illustrate the difference between X2 & M9 but I expected more from the X2 anyway. I know this not a fair comparison (summilux 50 1.4 & elmarit 28 2.8) but X2 image is pale and lifeless for 2K camera. I don't care if it's leica, fuji or olympus if it makes $hitty images.
100% crop. Converted from RAW files. No white balancing , no sharpening have been applied.
p.7 #19 · "Best" Mirrorless Camera with Viewfinder?
Bifurcator wrote:
K, you can't tell by me tho, I've never used one enough to know.
Got a stopwatch? Give it a try....
Digital works too BTW.
Also this page says that the X100's: "Optical Viewfinder: 0.5X magnification with approx. 90% frame coverage"
Tariq Gibran wrote:
That's funny. I have never timed a camera in my life (well, we did play a game in photo school where we guessed the mechanical shutter speed form the sound of it but that's different!) - nor have any of the "famous" photographers I assisted long ago either. Honestly, it's all academic as I mentioned above once you know all the in's and out's of a particular tool. At that point, a decent photographer knows how to conjure anything they want out of it and a millisecond here or there is not going to matter nowhere near as much as skill and abilities. ...Show more →
Total cop-out bro!
The artistic abilities of a photographer has nothing to do with this issue being discussed of shutter lag. Of course human powers of precognition, prediction, and preemptive timing exists. No one is disputing that. We're talking about different cameras actual lag-time in real-world terms.
Also what do you say about DPR saying the "window finder" as you called it is only 90% coverage?
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