benee wrote:
Jfinite - I don't think he's stalking you, but he definitely has a rather gruff way of critiquing. I would like to see some of his own work........
I'm curious... If you did see some of his work and it was AWFUL, would that make the shadow less harsh and add depth to the Jfinite's image? Or would it just make you feel better that you could nit pick whatever he posted?
That mentality has always baffled me... to me that would be like saying because someone has never played in the NFL, that they can't be a successful NFL coach.
Michaelparris wrote:
If his comments were coming from someone else, would you agree that they hold merit...
iron sharpens iron
Look above. I agreed that the lighting isn't perfect, could have more shadow definition, etc. I never held the image up as a pinnacle of achievement that all should aspire to, it's simply an example of a particular lighting pattern. It's up to the viewer to take what you will from it.
I also referenced a peculiar pattern I see with his posts. I'm on this forum a lot, and I don't see him posting here much. When I do see him post, it's only on threads that I've started, and it's in a very negative manner, wrapped in a thinly veiled guise of 'trying to make me better'. Things that make you go, hmmmmm...
To mlife: I'm not looking to nitpick his work (if there is work to be critiqued). I just think that in a place like this, we can learn from posting our own work and having it critiqued.
The spirit in which his comment was offered seemed unnecessarily harsh. His critique was correct, but could have been worded more tactfully. I guess what I'm saying is that when someone seems to pop out of the woodwork and offer an unnecessarily harsh critique, I am curious about the person's motivations.
Your NFL analogy doesn't exactly fit here... JFinite was not looking for a "coach" to shout some photographic sense into him. He was looking to share work and inspiration with peers. Sure, if critique is appropriate then offer it, but don't be a cranky a**.
Once again, the "wording and tone" used to offer a critique take precedent over the critique. I mentioned this previously that writing skills sometimes overshadow one's actual opinions negatively. His critique was on though. Flat lighting, rim light is way too hot. Maybe move your main to the hard left, fill on the right and back with your rim powered down.
benee wrote:
I'm not looking to nitpick his work (if there is work to be critiqued).
I fail to see the relevance of his work or lack there of... especially when what he said was accurate.
benee wrote:
I just think that in a place like this, we can learn from posting our own work and having it critiqued. The spirit in which his comment was offered seemed unnecessarily harsh. His critique was correct, but could have been worded more tactfully.
Agreed
benee wrote:
I guess what I'm saying is that when someone seems to pop out of the woodwork and offer an unnecessarily harsh critique, I am curious about the person's motivations.
Again, I can not fault your logic here but it is still no reason to attack back... two wrongs don't make a right.
benee wrote:
Your NFL analogy doesn't exactly fit here...
I still maintain that it does fit
benee wrote:
JFinite was not looking for a "coach" to shout some photographic sense into him. He was looking to share work and inspiration with peers. Sure, if critique is appropriate then offer it, but don't be a cranky a**.
I can't speak on behalf of JFinite or cranky guy, I just feel that by "shutting down" those who provide feedback regardless how tactless they are, we eliminate the opportunity to grow. What if JFinite really thought he NAILED that image and nobody said a word.... he would go from "streets of charlotte" glory to the "speedlight" slums. And nobody wants that.
Osai's post...."Have you noticed that everyone else's 3 light shots define and enhance the form? Did notice the yours totally flattens the form? What's with the terrible shadow under her jaw line? Good lighting is about defining the form, not just getting enough light to expose the image.".....How is this, as Benee wrote "unnecessarily harsh"? I've seen much "harsher" critiques right here on this forum. I've had MUCH "harsher" crits when I was in school. "Harsh on this forum seems to be anything that isn't a compliment. When I went back through and checked the other work posted...I noticed the he was right on with his critique. As far as picking on you...I reviewed his posts (only on this forum) and saw that he criticizes the others too. I also noticed that he has praised you as well as criticized you. In reviewing these posts..I did notice that you bristled and made excuses in response. You mentioned at the beginning of this thread that you wanted to learn from each other...but it the opposite seems to be happening. Osai's words were something to learn from...yet you high jacked your own thread...turning it into a forum about someone's critique of your work.
Maybe be critiques you because he sees someone worth improving...He praised your Streets of Charlotte thread. When I was in art school...I had a teacher that drove me crazy...I learned more from this man than any of my other teachers...combined! But...I really didn't start to learn until I realized that I should listen to the truth instead of taking offense to it. There are many on this forum and on this website that offer false praise...you will learn NOTHING from false compliments. You show some real promise as a photographer, you still have much to learn.
In the meantime...slow down. Take more time with your set ups...experiment with the lights and really look at the results. Be more critical of yourself. Ask yourself ..."is this the best that I can accomplish? You'll get better.
I'm not concerned about 'harshness' of a critique, I've been on here a long time, have had many critiques, and have posted some harsh critiques before myself.
However, I've noticed a particular pattern of wording with Osai's posts; demeaning, disrespectful, and not necessarily informative. Like it or not, if you spend a certain amount of time on the forum, you come to develop an online 'persona'. There are ways to explain yourself, to offer some information that might help someone to see something in a different light, to suggest alternatives...and then there are posts like Osai's.
Have you ever heard of a backhanded compliment? I have...
Oh brother...perfect example. Disregarding the fact that the two phrases are synonymous, you chose to be mean-spirited and dismissive with such a trivial matter...for what? Ah well, life continues...
Rhyder, I am all for brutally honest critiques. Demeaning and/or mean-spirited critiques, not so much. It is a question of tone and seeming intent; is the crit to help build one's craft, or to call someone out and take a pot shot?
I'l shut up now in the hope that this thread can get back on topic.
