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Archive 2012 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Yakim Peled
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p.3 #1 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Some MFT cameras can let you select this ratio.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.

Aug 04, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Makten
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p.3 #2 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Jman13 wrote:
Dear lord, stop with the damn equivalence talk. The OMD is not supposed to match a full frame sensor. Why must we talk about this every time. We know.

You might know, but several people here obviously don't have a clue of physics and how it affects cameras and images. To bad for them, but please don't let them pass their ignorance to others.

I agree with everything you've said. Even IF we care about equivalence (I do, because I can see the difference very clearly between the cameras I've owned myself), fast lenses does make sense for MFT if the aren't too large. In my opinion, Voigtl�nder should have been better off restricting the design to f/1.4, but f/0.95 is cool as well. I'm also more interested in even slower lenses with perfect performance instead, like a Leica M lens but for a smaller image circle.

Do you have any images taken at larger distances? The examples posted look very good, but lenses that are sharp close up, often is the opposite at a couple of meters (like the Voigtl�nder 35/1.2 which I find awful while others love it).

Aug 04, 2012 at 12:22 PM

kewlcanon
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p.3 #3 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

It's still cheaper than 85L II

Aug 04, 2012 at 12:27 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #4 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Yeah, I have other images at distance. I'll post them a bit later, as I'm building my basement right now.

The equivalence talk is all fineand dandy, but I see no need to bring it up in eddy m4/3 thread, especially since it doesn't actually work out as predicted...modern m4/3 is not two stops worse than FF. plus, you would t talk about the 5D being two stops slower in equivalence than the 5D III, even though the 5D and the OM D are closer than the 5D and the 5D III.

Aug 04, 2012 at 01:01 PM

Delatant
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p.3 #5 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

I sold my Proton Gathering Collection - it never appreciated!

Now let's get on to seeing pictures - the proof is in the pudding!

More! More!

Aug 04, 2012 at 01:23 PM

bobbytan
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p.3 #6 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

You're in trouble? You are killing us, Jordan, as you are getting us in trouble too!

What will you be testing next .... the Schneider lenses?

Aug 04, 2012 at 02:49 PM

Makten
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p.3 #7 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Jman13 wrote:
...modern m4/3 is not two stops worse than FF.

I think it is, if you compare to modern FF like a D4 with ~the same resolution. The OM-D is not even close to the NEX-5N at ISO 200-800. It's at least one stop difference, probably more. I'll have to do a shootout some day.

That said, I haven't touched the 5N since I got the OM-D, so obviously sensor size is not everything even for me.

Aug 04, 2012 at 02:57 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #8 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Back on topic here. Here is a shot at infinity and f/0.95. I did have to use LR 4.1's defringe command to get rid of some nice purply magenta fringing on the OOF leaves in the foreground, but it did it's job. The RAW had to be pulled quite a lot, as I didn't have an ND filter, but with -100 on highlights plus an extra stop and a half pulled on the regular 'exposure' slider (which is about a 2.5-3 stop pull on the highlights), I was able to get the detail back.

Full shot:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/nokton_infinity.jpg

And a 100% crop with normal sharpening (150%, 0.3 radius):
http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/nokton_infinity_crop.jpg

Aug 04, 2012 at 04:11 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #9 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

And stopped down. I think this is at f/4, though it might have been f/5.6.

Full shot:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/nokton_f4.jpg

100% center crop (this is unsharpened):
http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/nokton_f4_center.jpg

100% extreme upper left corner crop (also unsharpened):
http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/nokton_f4_corner.jpg

Aug 04, 2012 at 04:18 PM

Makten
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p.3 #10 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

That wide open shot looks extraordinary! Except your "normal" sharpening is pretty extreme. I use like 30-50% and 1 pixel radius, and with a sharp lens at its optimum, it looks something like that.

Anything at medium distance with some bokeh?

Aug 04, 2012 at 05:05 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #11 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

150% at 0.3 is less sharpening than 50% at 1 pixel. Canon recommends 300% at 0.3.

There's not a ton of background blur at longer focus distances. The statue shot in the original post is probably the best example...I was 6-7 feet away.

Aug 04, 2012 at 05:13 PM

curious80
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p.3 #12 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Makten wrote:
I think it is, if you compare to modern FF like a D4 with ~the same resolution. The OM-D is not even close to the NEX-5N at ISO 200-800. It's at least one stop difference, probably more. I'll have to do a shootout some day.

...

The noise in mid-tones to highlights is primarily a function of amount of light and not dependent much on circuit and technology. So yes in those regions the noise is pretty much determined by sensor size and an FF sensor is always expected to be about 2 stops better than an m43.

However as you go more and more into shadows, the technology starts to have a bigger say. And in terms of shadow noise and DR the sensors today are closer in performance than what the sensor size would say. Certainly the recent APS-C sensors from Sony are very close to FF in these aspects, despite the sensor size difference. I have no direct experience with E-M5 so can't talk about that.

Anyways, I think back to the thread topic. It sure looks pretty impressive wide open for a 0.95 lens!

Aug 04, 2012 at 06:29 PM

cputeq
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p.3 #13 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Makten wrote:
The OM-D is not even close to the NEX-5N at ISO 200-800. It's at least one stop difference, probably more. I'll have to do a shootout some day.

I'm not sure what you mean by this (the OM-D sensor behind the NEX5N, or the low ISO is worse?)

I had to sate my curiosity, though.

Here we go:

Olympus OM-D vs NEX-5N at ISO1600.
Tripod mounted, evaluative metering, F/4 resulting in almost exact exposure settings (A priority mode).
Framed as closely as possible, autoWB on both cameras.
Olympus gradiation was set to "normal" I believe, and shadows and highlights were both zeroed.

RAW, default profile in LR 4.1, exported to JPEG with no resizing, etc.

To all who would slander this test - this is an operational test, meaning if two people were after the same framing and let the camera pick the shutter speed, etc, this is what you'd get. I didn't match exact camera settings, etc, because camera ISO values don't match up exactly, t-stops of lenses, etc. etc.

See my flickr for the full-sized jpegs.

Olympus (WB set to "keep warm = off")
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/7713582174/

Sony (WB set to "i'm nowhere close, but call me Auto")
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/7713582642/

My results seem to bear what I see in the field - about on par with NEX-5N at pretty much any ISO.

OM-D seems to drop off a cliff at ISo 6400, though, so I'm going to try that next.

In fact, I've got a 5D2 and 7D. I might get bored tonight.

------

That said, in a very informal test (5D2 with 100 f/2 vs OMD with oly 45) comparing portrait "looks" and ISOs, etc, the 5D2 appeared to be approximately 1 stop ahead of the Oly when it came to noise, so I could actually see it being two stops behind a D4.

But I mean, c'mon, 2 stops behind the world's best FF low-light camera, especially for a 'tiny' 43 sensor, is damn good.

----

Edit - This post corrected, I posted the ISo 1600 shots, not the 3200. I have the 3200 series, though - will upload those next.

edit again --

Oly ISo3200 shot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/7713694000/

Nex ISO3200 shot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/7713694666/

Interestingly enough, if you don't disable Oly's "keep warm" WB option, it comes out pretty similar to the NEX-5Ns.

Edited on Aug 04, 2012 at 07:28 PM · View previous versions

Aug 04, 2012 at 07:06 PM

Mescalamba
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p.3 #14 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

ISO values never match up exactly, but manufacturers usually try to match them with exposure (means you should at ISO 200 get same time as with another camera at ISO 200 and same F-stop, tho it doesnt work always).

Personally Ive used m4/3s and APS-C and so far Im getting pretty similar shutter speed at same f-stop/ISO. So even tho theory says something different, Im not exactly sure there is some real life loss.

Would be nice if someone with lets say 5DMK2 and 7D tried it vs OM-D if theory about loosing light works or not..

Aug 04, 2012 at 07:18 PM

cputeq
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p.3 #15 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Jman, speaking of the original topic (

), how are you finding focusing with MF on the OMD? Using magnification or winging it?

Aug 04, 2012 at 07:34 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #16 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

I'm doing both. For closer framing , the lens is sharp enough that the focus slice is very visible in the viewfinder, so very easy to focus. Once you get about 7-8 feet out, though, magnification helps at f0.95.

What's awesome is how low of ISO one can use with this lens. In my house, I'm able to take casual portraits at ISO 200 if still and 400-800 if my daughter is moving around a bit. In extremely dark conditions (room with no lights at night with only my monitor on with a gray page), I was able to handhold at only ISO 6400. With an f/1.4 lens on a body without IBIS, you'd be lOoking at ISO 102400 to handhold in that light.

Aug 04, 2012 at 08:08 PM

JeffG
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p.3 #17 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Jman13 wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree.

Back on topic here. Here is a shot at infinity and f/0.95. I did have to use LR 4.1's defringe command to get rid of some nice purply magenta fringing on the OOF leaves in the foreground, but it did it's job. The RAW had to be pulled quite a lot, as I didn't have an ND filter, but with -100 on highlights plus an extra stop and a half pulled on the regular 'exposure' slider (which is about a 2.5-3 stop pull on the highlights), I was able to get the detail back....Show more →

these images are impressively detailed at 100%

i do but don't agree with makten. you could have actually sharpened them more if you did not sharpen them in LR4. better to take them to photoshop, flip to lab color and sharpen in the lightness channel. can usually pull out even more detail this way before it starts to go pear-shaped.

i think i learned that technique from fred miranda on this site back in 2002...

Aug 04, 2012 at 08:13 PM

Makten
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p.3 #18 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

cputeq wrote:
Here we go:

Well, the OM-D image is at least one stop darker in the lower midtones, so this doesn't contradict what I've stated.

Aug 04, 2012 at 08:16 PM

Jman13
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p.3 #19 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Portrait by candlelight at night. f/0.95, 1/8 sec handheld, ISO 1600. My parents celebrated their 40th anniversary last night.

http://www.jordansteele.com/2012/parents_40th.jpg

Aug 06, 2012 at 09:34 AM

Bifurcator
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p.3 #20 · Oh boy.... (Nokton 17.5 f/0.95)

Nice samples above Jman! Especially that WO sample! Impressive!

Congratz to your folks BTW too!

Aug 06, 2012 at 11:03 AM

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