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Archive 2012 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM

  
 
edwardkaraa
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p.2 #1 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


AhamB wrote:
As far as resolution goes, that might be true (the 35-70 having lower contrast in the corners WO), but the 28-85 seems to have quite some lateral CA in the corners, which bothers me in web-sized images. The CA will not go away by stopping down...


That was certainly true with my copy, but not all lenses are affected by CA, so I think it's probably sample variations, especially that it is a very complex lens.



Aug 02, 2012 at 08:36 AM
Propellor
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p.2 #2 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


I have one of these incredible 28-85's and hardly any CA. I just sold one on Ebay in great condition. It fetched 325 Euro's. Little money for great 28, 35, 50 and 85 prime lenses.......


Aug 02, 2012 at 09:04 AM
rico
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p.2 #3 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Jman13 wrote:
I really liked the 28-85 when I had one. It was one of the few standard zooms I actually enjoyed shooting with. Very sharp from 35-85mm wide open, with 28 being good, but not outstanding wide open. ...

Problems at 28mm are 4% linear distortion and maximum mechanical extension. Great optical performance otherwise.



Aug 03, 2012 at 02:13 AM
briantho
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p.2 #4 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Propellor wrote:
I have one of these incredible 28-85's and hardly any CA. I just sold one on Ebay in great condition. It fetched 325 Euro's. Little money for great 28, 35, 50 and 85 prime lenses.......


Awfully slow prime lenses then. The zoom is great (for a zoom) but it cannot compare to primes.



Aug 03, 2012 at 05:21 AM
StevenPA
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p.2 #5 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Bifurcator wrote:
There was a 35-70 in the shop last week for ¥23,000 (that's like exactly $300 at today's exchange rate) - why, what do they go for in the west?

I didn't take it out of the case, just rotated it on the shelf to look for the "West Germany" or "Japan" so I dunno perfectly the condition - but the exterior looked perfect and it was in the "excellent" case. (It was Made In Japan BTW)



The 35-70 wasn't produced in Germany as far as I know. Its predecessor, the 40-80, was though.



Aug 03, 2012 at 07:19 AM
Bifurcator
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p.2 #6 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Thanks man! Good to know!




Aug 04, 2012 at 11:54 AM
aleksanderpolo
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p.2 #7 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


An old test:

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/35mm_test.html

In theory, why can't a zoom be better than a prime? In this test, it is better. There is a reason why the 35-70 has such a great reputation. Can't find the actual test for 28-85, but I remember it is very comparable to 35-70, significantly bigger though.

briantho wrote:
Awfully slow prime lenses then. The zoom is great (for a zoom) but it cannot compare to primes.




Aug 04, 2012 at 12:25 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.2 #8 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


There was an Italian site showing all mtf numbers of Contax lenses. I can't find it anymore.


Aug 04, 2012 at 12:44 PM
aleksanderpolo
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p.2 #9 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


I remember that too, it was Zeiss benchmark or something. I remember it showed that at different focal length, the 35-70 and the 28-85 are indeed comparable to the corresponding prime.

edwardkaraa wrote:
There was an Italian site showing all mtf numbers of Contax lenses. I can't find it anymore.




Aug 04, 2012 at 12:52 PM
Taylor Sherman
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p.2 #10 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Zeiss has almost all their MTFs posted online here:

http://www.zeissimages.com/mtf.php

A few notable exceptions (the 24/2 ZA, for instance) but still - quite a valuable resource!



Aug 04, 2012 at 12:53 PM
wfrank
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p.2 #11 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


aleksanderpolo wrote:
I remember that too, it was Zeiss benchmark or something. I remember it showed that at different focal length, the 35-70 and the 28-85 are indeed comparable to the corresponding prime.



I think briantho mostly cherish short DOF flower shots, so in that sense I give him right, the zooms are awesome but not as fast.



Aug 04, 2012 at 02:09 PM
aleksanderpolo
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p.2 #12 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


If compared with 50/1.4, yes certainly that's true. But 35-70/3.4 is just half a stop slower than 35/2.8, 60/2.8, not terribly slow comparatively for a 3 primes-in-one.

wfrank wrote:
I think briantho mostly cherish short DOF flower shots, so in that sense I give him right, the zooms are awesome but not as fast.




Aug 04, 2012 at 02:30 PM
briantho
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p.2 #13 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


aleksanderpolo wrote:
If compared with 50/1.4, yes certainly that's true. But 35-70/3.4 is just half a stop slower than 35/2.8, 60/2.8, not terribly slow comparatively for a 3 primes-in-one.



Yes as Wfrank said I was refering to the speed for DoF and also to keep ISO as low as possible or for low light shooting. As for the primes you mention, the 35 f2.8 is slow but as you know there's a 1.4. The 60 f2.8 isn't comparable as it's slow because it is a dedicated macro lens. Don't get me wrong, the zooms are great, but limited in speed. That may or may not matter depending on what you're going to use it for.



Aug 04, 2012 at 02:40 PM
Rob Riley
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p.2 #14 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


I ran that lens on 5D for awhile
no complaints at all

MG Boat Tail Racer, no idea of the aperture (of course)
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z179/realink_album/Lobethal%20GP/GP091347_internet.jpg




Aug 04, 2012 at 02:52 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #15 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Slow zooms are an alternative way of seeing, for a different look - the full detail look as humans actually see the world. A short take on this great 28-85 compared with a few primes, based on MTF:

The 28mm short end is a wide angle bonus on a very sound zoom. The 35-70 is a low distortion corner to corner star, which has similar central performance from f3.4 to f8, and stopping down picks the wide edges up to almost equal levels.

The 28-85 is a lens which delivers a very large increase in performance at all parts of the frame upon stopping down to f8, for fine to moderate detail rendition - the 'large object' contrast already being at very high levels wide open - this shows as a very bright image with very accurate outlines of main subject material.

briantho, you may agree that many subjects are well presented with excellent middle aperture quality to combine with excellent depth of field.

I looked up the Zeiss data for perhaps the best mid and long ZE lenses, the 50MP and 100MP, 'best' here meaning peak raw performance in contrast terms, characterised by MTF.

At 50mm in the image centre at best aperture, the 28-85 shows for 40-20-10 lpmm figures of 76-88-95 and the 50MP shows 76-88-94. Over most of the frame, lines are very high for both with a small decline, a little more in the zoom. Distortion is near identical in both - around 0.7% at 20mm image height (corners).

At 85mm at best aperture the 28-85 at 85mm delivers 40-20-10 centre data of 70-86-93 and the 100MP gives you 70-85-93. Distortion is nearly zero for the great 100MP but only 1.6% for the zoom, which is extremely good.

It's true the zoom is less consistent at 28mm but even there its centre at f8 is 76-89-95, and the ZE 28/2 gives us 73-89-96 at f4.

Central performance is very important because that is where the viewer most often forms the impression of sharpness and level of detail, and it's also where most important subject matter is shown in most images. We can lose sight of that sometimes in the quest and concern for great corner performance.

Measurements above are from the highly accurate, industry standard Zeiss K8 precision instrument as seen at the link below, along with an interesting read:

http://www.zeiss.de/C1257569004B5D2C/EmbedTitelIntern/MTF-TesterK8/$File/Carl_Zeiss_MTF_Tester_K8.pdf

Almost all lenses perform best two stops down, and these data for the primes presented above are for f4 (28/2 and 100MP) and f5.6 (50MP). They are much worse at f2, all three of them, often disguised by close focusing on a nearbly subject.

They will also drop off in performance at the aperture very often needed for many photographers - f8, for a balance of residual aberration control against diffraction onset, on the camera format for which they were intended, 35mm - now better known as 'full frame'. So the above comparisons move in favour of the zoom at f8, two stops (or thereabouts given the variable aperture) down for it.

Even a 28mm prime gives poor depth of field at f4 (two stops down), and as for 50mm and 100mm, you had better enjoy out of focus performance because that is your lot at f4, for all but shallow depth or planar images.

Not many people enjoy detailed landscape images shot at f4 for such focal lengths, for example, this is one reason many landscape photographers prize TS/PC lenses highly. You could say that fast primes peak too early, but of course they have other uses and applications.

The Contax zoom lenses are extremely landscape and 'deep image' friendly, as are many Contax primes; the mid to long lenses in the ZE/F range are much less so, seeing as they are optimised for what might be called more 'modern' uses and styles. This is clear from a quick trip to the ZE/ZF/ZM image thread. Choose any page.

The manufacturers are working flat out to provide a broader range of low to mid ISO performance and they are getting there quite fast, so we will soon see ISO 50-400 (for example) giving similar results - and that 3 stops of course moves the debate in favour of slow lenses...for peak IQ.

I write this because there may be a tendency for newcomers to the alt world to believe the 'primes are faster/better/best, zooms are slow/worse/bad' meme, but it's not necessarily so. You might need to buy a 10-15 year old zoom lens to see it. Many deliver great results from wide open, but not this 28-85 one.



Aug 04, 2012 at 07:29 PM
ljw2k
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p.2 #16 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


I have the 28-85 3.3-4 on delivery to me as we speak and the above is very good reading but a little confusing to a newcomer like myself.

It will be used on a cropped camera 1.6 Canon 50d and i do alot of creative photography and landscape also and would like some more advise if possible if this lens would be ok for that.I am not looking for perfection and i am far from a pro photgrapher infact quite the reverse.

I have actually made another thread on how the 28-85 in regards to any proper reviews on it and actual pictures taken so this thread is not taken off it's original topic which was the 35-70.

Again thankyou very much for your comments above and although it was very interesting reading it was a little over my head.

Should i really be looking for full frame camera such as the 5D MK11 as i use live view and manual mode alot and the 4D does not have this so i have read.

I wish i could aford the 5D Mk3 but not at the moment and i have even looked at the Canon 1ds MK2 but the screen is so small on the back and my eyes are not getting any younger so i like a large screen if that makes sense.

PS: Rob that pic looks stunning congrats .



Aug 04, 2012 at 10:07 PM
rico
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p.2 #17 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


edwardkaraa wrote:
There was an Italian site showing all mtf numbers of Contax lenses. I can't find it anymore.

That was a valuable resource in the old days for CZ and Yashica lenses in Contax/Yashica mount, but GeoCities was shut down by Yahoo. A faithful copy of the content can be found at

http://www.reocities.com/ilprode/Test.htm

Add to your bookmarks!



Aug 05, 2012 at 03:42 AM
ljw2k
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p.2 #18 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


Brilliant Site and Bookmarked thanks rico

By the numbers there does not look a lot of difference between the 2 lenses i have done a comparison at around 35mm and the results below show very little on MTF values on average.

28-85- @34mm Distortion: -2.0 % (barrel)
35-70- @35mm Distortion: -3.5 % (barrel)



28-85- @40mm Distortion: -1.0 % (barrel)
35-70- @41mm Distortion: -2.0 % (barrel)


CONTAX 28-85 3.3 Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* MM

3.3 -.1 8.2 7.6 8.0
5.6 +.2 8.7 6.8 8.0
8 +.3 8.6 7.0 8.0
11 +.3 8.3 6.1 7.8
16 +.3 7.8 6.8 7.4
22 +.3 7.0 6.0 6.7


CONTAX 35-70 3.4 Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* MM

3.4 +.2 8.7 6.3 7.7
5.6 +.1 8.7 8.3 8.5
8 0 8.6 8.2 8.3
11 -.1 8.2 7.8 8.0
16 -.2 7.6 7.2 7.4
22 -.2 6.7 6.3 6.6



Aug 05, 2012 at 10:11 AM
briantho
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p.2 #19 · CONTAX C/Y CARL ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5 MM


philip_pj wrote:
Many many words...


...essentially saying the same as my post:

briantho wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the zooms are great, but limited in speed. That may or may not matter depending on what you're going to use it for.




Aug 05, 2012 at 12:50 PM
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