p.1 #1 · The right way to get into wedding photography
We often get negative comments with regards to new wedding photographers, everything from people not being ready, not having the right gear, charging too little, giving the industry a bad name etc. We even had a new angle on this with regards to the 'Spray and pray' teaching and the 'Rock Start' who are teaching all the wannabe wedding photographers.
So what is the right way to start into wedding photography, how should an amature whose only experience is as an Uncle Bob progress to being able to work as a wedding photographer. I mean everybody here had to start somewhere.
I'd be interested to learn how you got trained up, and what way would you like to see people enter the industry?
As somebody who is is very new to the business (shot my first wedding in 2009 and very slowly building) my biggest fear was messing up and ruining somebody's day. I wanted to learn to do it right, but there is no "right path" to take to make sure you do. To me if the industry wants to sort this out, they need to have some sort of regulated training scheme so that the bride and grooms can check where a photographer stands. And I don't mean some society that you pay £100 too so you can put there logo on your website!
Something on the lines that you first start as an assistant, then onto second shooter, once enough experience is gained from second shooting the photographer could be checked to make sure their photography, workflow, album design and business knowledge is to a level that would make them safe to make the leap to main shooter.
At least then if a couple can't afford the cost of full time experienced photographer, if they go with somebody who has gone through such a system they will know although the photographer is new to shooting on their own, the risk is minimised and they have the training to a certified level.
p.1 #3 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Quite frankly, I don't think wedding photography as a profession is significant enough to warrant licensure and certification. As long as camera companies keep marketing that the cameras are what take the pictures, there will always be folks who buy them and hop into the industry. The only things we need to pay attention to are the clientele we're hoping to attract.
p.1 #4 · The right way to get into wedding photography
I would not expect anyone currently in the industry to help you out much. The industry is saturated and overrun by people of suspect skill, experience, and professionalism. This makes things more difficult for everyone. Why would anyone go out of their way to help add one more to the ranks?
My advice would be to get good at photography first, start second shooting, start charging for yourself, then just go grab the bull by the horns. I would not expect much outside help.
p.1 #5 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Assist an established photographer and learn the industry inside and out. Even if you have to intern for free for a while, do it. Once you do that work for the many low paying mass market wedding photography companies out there to make your photographic mistakes. Once you get good enough and have an understanding of how to run a business, go off on your own. If you're in a market that just doesn't have anybody willing to take you on, and you're actually serious, consider relocating to a place that does have someone willing to take you on. Think of it as school. You pay for school. Speaking of school: Do not go to photo school. This is a massive waste of time and money (except for maybe The Art Center in Pasadena). If you want to go to formal school, go to business and marketing school. Photographic skills are earned through lots and lots and lots of practice, trial and error.
That said, new photographers have no idea how much they are impacting the industry. I constantly see posts here and when talking to people who have an outright disbelief that they could possibly impact an entire industry as a newbie. They don't realize the staggering and overwhelming numbers of newbies there are who are all doing the exact same things. As a whole they have single handedly lowered the bar as to how much the market expects photographers to get paid (how many posts do you see about brides freaking out that a photographer wants to charge a lowly $3000). I hear this from photographers in markets all over the US in all demographics. I just heard a top end wedding photographer in LA confess he's getting half the amount of money he used to even from two years ago because there's too many cheapies in the market now. In fact most photographers I hear talk are claiming their income has halved because of what the market has become. So many newbies have zero respect for the industry and in turn the industry is turning into a place where you will not be respected. Of course there are brides still willing to fork out big bucks but what has gone from a 3000-6000 average expectation range out on the street has turned to $1000-2000. I'm talking about the market as a whole, obviously not everyone. Why do you think so many photographers are now teaching? Because they aren't shooting because there's not enough brides willing to fork over enough for a photographer to actually profit and stay in business. I have another friend who lost a lot of work and decided to start doing real estate photography (another VERY common thing now days with so many people unemployed). He made the comment that people are refusing to spend $200 for a professional photography fee on Architectural photography. $200?!?! That's not a professional photography fee. Problem is there are too many other people in his market willing to shoot an entire house for less than $100.
It's a very nasty and unsustainable circle we're in right now since those photographers turned teachers are enabling the new crowd and giving them what I consider to be false hope in order to continue getting their money. And take people like David Jay. He doesn't even shoot weddings anymore. He's a preacher. And people just lap it up and take what he says for gospel and give him more money and it continues to screw the market up. Hey, it's better to feel good about yourself than to do something to make progressive strides upward.
Professional photographers turned teachers, teaching the newest generation of photographers to be future photography teachers.
p.1 #6 · The right way to get into wedding photography
The free market is a bitch. Adapt or die. This is capitalism, pure and simple.
If you are no better than some $1200/wedding hack, then you deserve what you get. At all times your service and product should be befitting of your price tag. If not, expect someone to swoop in and "steel your cheese" so to speak.
p.1 #7 · The right way to get into wedding photography
cineski wrote:
It's a very nasty and unsustainable circle we're in right now since those photographers turned teachers are enabling the new crowd and giving them what I consider to be false hope in order to continue getting their money. And take people like David Jay. He doesn't even shoot weddings anymore. He's a preacher. And people just lap it up and take what he says for gospel and give him more money and it continues to screw the market up. Hey, it's better to feel good about yourself than to do something to make progressive strides upward.
^ In that respect, it's much like the creative writing circuit. Many folks shell out tens of thousands for MFA programs only to find out that how well you write has next to nothing to do with your chances of publication. A lucky few get their work into the big magazines and take off from there, while the rest scramble for teaching spots while working day jobs that eventually turn into careers.
There's a lot of false hope peddled by workshoppers, and in my opinion, they do as much of a disservice to the industry as the $200 all day wedding shooters. One group fosters the idea that full day coverage should always be available for $1000, while the other fosters the idea that paying $1000 to hear lucky or successful photographers will give you the skills to thrive in the industry.
The issue, however, is that the folks who are charging $1000 for coverage think that's as good as it gets, while the folks who are paying $1000 for workshops are already convinced photographers should be charging more. The cheap shooters are converting brides into having cheap expectations while the workshop shooters are draining their own pockets to learn things they already know.
p.1 #8 · The right way to get into wedding photography
This is not entirely true (except for the free market bit). A lot of brides have no idea how much photography costs. The photographers have set the market so low as a whole that when a bride goes out to research how much photography costs, they find out that they can easily get by for $1500 because their instincts as to what good photography is has been dumbed down by the obscene amounts of bad photography in the world.
deepbluejh wrote:
The free market is a bitch. Adapt or die. This is capitalism, pure and simple.
If you are no better than some $1200/wedding hack, then you deserve what you get. At all times your service and product should be befitting of your price tag. If not, expect someone to swoop in and "steel your cheese" so to speak.
p.1 #9 · The right way to get into wedding photography
jolahern wrote:
At least then if a couple can't afford the cost of full time experienced photographer, if they go with somebody who has gone through such a system they will know although the photographer is new to shooting on their own, the risk is minimised and they have the training to a certified level.
John
Guilds and unions only work when the barriers to entry are high. Since anyone can buy a camera and teach themselves to shoot, there is no way to prevent anyone from hanging out their shingle.
If a couple can't afford the pro, experienced photographer, they will get subpar picture in either scenario.
It also removes competitive drive and market forces from the equation. Who says that all weddings should cost $3000 at a minimum? Clients are very clearly willing to pay much less and in general, be satisfied with the results.
p.1 #10 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Just jump right in and do it. That's what I did... but be honest with all your clients.
The one thing you want to be thoughtful of - your name and reputation are everything in this business. Don't start out by ruining your rep from the start. You know, like that girl that stole other people's images and tried to pass them off as her own.
Or like those people that second shoot for a well established pro and then submit those images to very well known blogs as their own wedding images with no mention that they were the second shooter.
Or shooting workshop/seminar staged photos and passing them off on your blog as actual weddings... and then say, "Well, I COULD shoot those during a wedding..." But did you? Until you have, then no, you can't shoot those during a wedding.
It's not easy. There's no fast track to becoming a wedding photographer. You just have to go out and do it... but be honest with your clients and with yourself.
p.1 #11 · The right way to get into wedding photography
cineski wrote:
This is not entirely true (except for the free market bit). A lot of brides have no idea how much photography costs. The photographers have set the market so low as a whole that when a bride goes out to research how much photography costs, they find out that they can easily get by for $1500 because their instincts as to what good photography is has been dumbed down by the obscene amounts of bad photography in the world.
They dictate the market, not you or me. If they are happy with what they are getting for $1500, why pay $5000? The answer is of course, they won't.
I see the real crux of the issue is that a lot of people who used to get $5k+ really weren't that great. Now these "young and hungry" up and comers are moving in at half that much and rocking the boat. Some are pretty good and some aren't. Either way, our customers decide who is worthy of their money. Tough crackers, really.
p.1 #12 · The right way to get into wedding photography
I'm not disagreeing with you on the sub-par $5000 photographers. I've seen sub-par $12,000 photographers. But it is you and me setting the price of the market since we are part of photographers as a group of people. Photographers set the price, not brides. Brides get the expectation of what the market should be by what other photographers charge. If everyone suddenly decided they started at $4000 then the market would simply be that. As for $1200 photographers that are amazing, I've yet to see that. Most of what I see now days, regardless of price, is sub par work which is really having an adverse effect as well on the market. A lot of brides do actually take notice of this (at least I hear it with people who hire me) but I will say the market as a whole just doesn't know the difference and as you mentioned that does rule the roost.
deepbluejh wrote:
They dictate the market, not you or me. If they are happy with what they are getting for $1500, why pay $5000? The answer is of course, they won't.
I see the real crux of the issue is that a lot of people who used to get $5k+ really weren't that great. Now these "young and hungry" up and comers are moving in at half that much and rocking the boat. Some are pretty good and some aren't. Either way, our customers decide who is worthy of their money. Tough crackers, really.
p.1 #13 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Another thing that I feel is important to people getting in is to spend time developing their own voice. Just because another photographer makes their images pee yellow doesn't mean you should.
p.1 #14 · The right way to get into wedding photography
I give the wedding photography profession about 5 years until it implodes. Too many fauxtographers, and prices will continue downward. The demand for quality will shrink as people continue to be satisfied with camera phone images. The real money will come through workshops, though the threshold for who can give them has already dropped to just being able to hold a camera. The quality of photography in immaterial. It's all about marketing, and selling the "experience".
The trend of having 2 photographers will have to increase to 3 or 4 so that everyone will be able to get started in the "business".
p.1 #15 · The right way to get into wedding photography
cineski wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you on the sub-par $5000 photographers. I've seen sub-par $12,000 photographers. But it is you and me setting the price of the market since we are part of photographers as a group of people. Photographers set the price, not brides. Brides get the expectation of what the market should be by what other photographers charge. If everyone suddenly decided they started at $4000 then the market would simply be that. As for $1200 photographers that are amazing, I've yet to see that. Most of what I see now days, regardless of price, is sub par work which is really having an adverse effect as well on the market. A lot of brides do actually take notice of this (at least I hear it with people who hire me) but I will say the market as a whole just doesn't know the difference and as you mentioned that does rule the roost. ...Show more →
What I have seen personally is that a lot of people setting up shop in the $1500-$3000 range who are as good or better than photographers who used to charge $5000. In that case,the overall market value of that service has dropped.
If someone else can do a service just as good as you for 2/3rds the cost, then you lose. That's capitalism 101 and it's a brutal mistress. No one ever promised you or me endless wealth if they became a wedding photographer. There is no guarantee this is going to be a viable full time career for as many people who would like to pursue it. Some people will do well, and others are going to fail and fall to the wayside. Where you stand will largely depend on your drive and your ambition. One thing is for sure though, you've got to adapt to the market and you can not stand still, or you will get left behind.
p.1 #16 · The right way to get into wedding photography
RJKphoto wrote:
I give the wedding photography profession about 5 years until it implodes. Too many fauxtographers, and prices will continue downward. The demand for quality will shrink as people continue to be satisfied with camera phone images. The real money will come through workshops, though the threshold for who can give them has already dropped to just being able to hold a camera. The quality of photography in immaterial. It's all about marketing, and selling the "experience".
The trend of having 2 photographers will have to increase to 3 or 4 so that everyone will be able to get started in the "business"....Show more →
I agree with the first sentence (although I give it less than 5 years) and the first half of the second sentence. The rest, I completely disagree.
p.1 #17 · The right way to get into wedding photography
RJKphoto wrote:
The demand for quality will shrink as people continue to be satisfied with camera phone images. The quality of photography in immaterial.
This I disagree with. I think it's more accurate to state that high quality images are easier to come by today than in times past. This is making higher quality at lower prices more attainable.
p.1 #18 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Nah, just pull a Gary Fong. Raise your prices to insane levels where you book 2 weddings a year but you make more money than 30 weddings shooting for cheapskates. You never know, people might start flying you all over the world!
RJKphoto wrote:
I give the wedding photography profession about 5 years until it implodes. Too many fauxtographers, and prices will continue downward. The demand for quality will shrink as people continue to be satisfied with camera phone images. The real money will come through workshops, though the threshold for who can give them has already dropped to just being able to hold a camera. The quality of photography in immaterial. It's all about marketing, and selling the "experience".
The trend of having 2 photographers will have to increase to 3 or 4 so that everyone will be able to get started in the "business"....Show more →
p.1 #19 · The right way to get into wedding photography
Having good photography isn't enough. So, just because there are young and hungry photographer that is super creative and has images that knock your socks off, it doesn't mean that they know squat about running a business or customer service or have the right personality or temperament to work with people. You need to have the "total package."
p.1 #20 · The right way to get into wedding photography
A photographer that's better than a $5000 photographer who's charging $1500-3000 is just plain stupid . That's the entire plight of my point. I'm trying to teach the newcomers that are actually good that they're worth a lot more than they think.
deepbluejh wrote:
What I have seen personally is that a lot of people setting up shop in the $1500-$3000 range who are as good or better than photographers who used to charge $5000. In that case,the overall market value of that service has dropped.
If someone else can do a service just as good as you for 2/3rds the cost, then you lose. That's capitalism 101 and it's a brutal mistress. No one ever promised you or me endless wealth if they became a wedding photographer. There is no guarantee this is going to be a viable full time career for as many people who would like to pursue it. Some people will do well, and others are going to fail and fall to the wayside. Where you stand will largely depend on your drive and your ambition. One thing is for sure though, you've got to adapt to the market and you can not stand still, or you will get left behind. ...Show more →
