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Archive 2012 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience

  
 
jasenz
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p.5 #1 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Nope, no beep.


Jun 04, 2012 at 09:17 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.5 #2 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


jasenz wrote:
Sure, will try to...

1] I have not found any variation in the focus points to be honest. I use any of the AF points, i try to not focus and recompose so always aim to use the AF point closest to my subject, for greater accuracy.
2] There is no beep comfirmation with Nikon D800s as far as i know.
3] My rangefinder focus assist is spot on, with focus being at the middle between < .... 0 .... >
I think if you find yours is not quite in the middle you can AF fine tune until it is accurate.
...Show more

Wow, D700's LV must have been terrible if D800's is miles better.
The lag in response between MF focus ring adjustment and seeing results on the D800 screen along with the poor resolution is my biggest problem with the D800.



Jun 04, 2012 at 11:35 AM
jasenz
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p.5 #3 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


wayne seltzer wrote:
Wow, D700's LV must have been terrible if D800's is miles better.
The lag in response between MF focus ring adjustment and seeing results on the D800 screen along with the poor resolution is my biggest problem with the D800.


Not terrible, the d700 LV was usable. But certainly the d800 in my opinion is a fantastic LV.



Jun 04, 2012 at 06:45 PM
Bifurcator
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p.5 #4 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


I'd sure like to see some 100% unprocessed crops from the D800 with ZF glass.

There were a couple a page or two back ya could get by going to flicker and IMO they showed a pretty terrible level of detail. They looked kinda like my GH1 at f/32 suffering from diffraction limitations. The exposure for the image I checked was: 1/1000, f/4.0, 270 mm, ISO 100. So is the D800 already diffraction limited at f/4 or was it just lighting conditions mixed with a little motion blur?

Samples please.

Thanks!




Jun 04, 2012 at 07:32 PM
Smridevan
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p.5 #5 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Here are some samples with the D800 and ZF.2 21mm, 35 mm/1.4, and 100mm. All of the images are unprocessed, except for images 24, 26, 37, 62, 76, 83, and 106 which had some WB correction. The rest were untouched (no sharpening were applied either) and batch convert from raw to JPEG in Nikon capture NX 2.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/luanvan/sets/72157630054783772/



Jun 04, 2012 at 10:48 PM
carstenw
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p.5 #6 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


jasenz wrote:
Not terrible, the d700 LV was usable. But certainly the d800 in my opinion is a fantastic LV.


What is better exactly?



Jun 05, 2012 at 02:06 AM
Avi B
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p.5 #7 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Bifurcator wrote:
I'd sure like to see some 100% unprocessed crops from the D800 with ZF glass.

There were a couple a page or two back ya could get by going to flicker and IMO they showed a pretty terrible level of detail. They looked kinda like my GH1 at f/32 suffering from diffraction limitations. The exposure for the image I checked was: 1/1000, f/4.0, 270 mm, ISO 100. So is the D800 already diffraction limited at f/4 or was it just lighting conditions mixed with a little motion blur?

Samples please.

Thanks!



You should probably go to the Nikon forum and ask about samples with D800 and Zeiss glass. There ought to be a number of people that can satisfy your requirement.



Jun 07, 2012 at 09:21 PM
philip_pj
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p.5 #8 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Thanks, Wayne - very nice.
The 21mm has a pleasant secret - it's amazingly handholdable on high MP DSLRs, more than even a wide lens should; not to 40 inch print super-sharp but more than good enough for everything else.

These look excellent to me, there are a lot of people who don't know what they are doing. I hope Sony puts this sensor in its next big camera, if they go with a 24MP SLT, I see a lot of buyer resistance/ angst happening. Apart from a minor quibble with Nikon greens ('assisted' by LR which tends that way) from the high sat 21mm, it looks great. Reminds me of a super D3X.



Jun 08, 2012 at 02:25 AM
jasenz
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p.5 #9 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


carstenw wrote:
What is better exactly?


The D800 live view is:-

1] More responsive with faster LV autofocusing
2] Better resolution on screen
3] Easier to assess sharpness i.e. via manual focusing
4] Histogram available on preview before you take the shot



Jun 08, 2012 at 09:20 AM
wayne seltzer
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p.5 #10 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


philip_pj wrote:
Thanks, Wayne - very nice.
The 21mm has a pleasant secret - it's amazingly handholdable on high MP DSLRs, more than even a wide lens should; not to 40 inch print super-sharp but more than good enough for everything else.

These look excellent to me, there are a lot of people who don't know what they are doing. I hope Sony puts this sensor in its next big camera, if they go with a 24MP SLT, I see a lot of buyer resistance/ angst happening. Apart from a minor quibble with Nikon greens ('assisted' by LR which tends that way) from the
...Show more

Thanks Philip_pj!
I noticed the greens are different than Canon greens which I normally shoot.
What do you suggest to improve the greens?
I did notice that DOF was smaller with D800 and to get the foreground sharp I had to sacrifice sharpness in the mid and background in the above shot which I shot at f8.
I have heard that f5.6 is the limit before diffraction kicks in.
Would like to see comparisons between 5.6 and f8 to see how much you lose.
I was able to really push the brightening of the shadows on this forest shot much more than my Canon shot due to less noise in shadows.
What do people here who keep talking about how great the new APS-C sensors are, think about the detail and IQ of the D800?



Jun 09, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #11 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Wayne, those crops actually look a little softer than I would expect with default sharpening and a Zeiss 21. Not to say they look bad, just a little soft. Perhaps 5.6 would make a difference? I don't know, but from everything I have seen thus far out of the D800, I think the detail should be a little better. It could be the first crop is in an an area that is not in critical focus? Where was that shot focused?


Jun 09, 2012 at 11:38 AM
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p.5 #12 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


It’s time to give answers to my questions asked in the 1st post. Now it’s renewed.
Some time ago I had an opportunity to put my hands on Nikon D800 and as well as Canon 5D3 cameras at a local camera shop. I can’t judge IQ aspects but I have plenty to say about handling and operating these cameras. The next words reflect my personal opinion only, and please remember I’m a 5Dc user in past.

First impressions come first. “What a bulky brick?!” when I took D800. And “What a handy grip!” when I grabbed 5D3. Assume it as a introduction.

1) Focusing with MF lenses. Everyone is aware of Nikon rangefinder focus assist system and no doubt it works but… In the lower left corner in VF there are 3 indicators: 2 arrows and one green dot that has quite a large tolerance (with a 50/1.4G lens on). So its accuracy is in question. Somebody suggests to make MA so that consecutive blinking an arrow and the dot tells about acquiring focus. Canon’s implementation of manual focus assistance is straight forward. A single dot lights green if the focus is nailed and it seems to have less tolerance. Moreover ¬ and it’s the most important thing IMHO - 5D3 informs of acquiring focus by an audio signal (beep) and illuminating a focus point in red. So with 5D3 a photographer has no need to turn his eyes to the green dot in a corner and may pay all his attention to the VF frame and making a good composition.

2) I couldn’t find any difference in brightness level of viewfinders of both cameras at first glance. They are quiet bright and large. Also I’d want to mention that AF points of 5D3 can be customized so that they are illuminated in red or black only if focus is nailed and but stay transparent all the other time and do not distract from making a composition. Consider it as a small trick and not as a huge advantage.

3) LV focusing. Handholding a camera and trying LV MF focusing is a real pain and no difference how grainy a picture on LCD is. It’s a real challenge. On tripod D800 may give quite good results whatever people say. And no doubt Canon’s LV implementation is much convenient and eye-pleasing. Just don’t zoom too much, he-he ) The only thing that can make sense is the time you shoot in dim light and then 5D3 is in favour.

4) Ergonomics. Well, what would I say? I’m on Canon side. D800 grip seems uncomfortably fat. 5D3 grip dimensions are more appropriate for my hand. All buttons and dials are on their places. Maybe it’s a matter of a habit who knows. Menu navigation is equally complicated on both cameras yet custom menu helps a lot. And both cameras feel heavier than 5Dc.

Additional 5D3 advantages: side-by-side playback mode for 2 images comparison, silent continuous shooting mode that id really silent (opposed to Nikon postponed shutter release after a mirror gets up), MA for both wide and tele ends of a zoom lens.

And finally some more pros to D800: a built-in fill flash that weights nothing and doesn’t need separate batteries, a built-in VF shutter that a must have option for LV and tripod shooting, a cheap plastic LCD cover that is useless in fact yet very welcome by a customer.



Jun 10, 2012 at 06:51 AM
carstenw
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p.5 #13 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Oh boy, that just reads like a Canon fan handling a Nikon So here is my counter-part.

I had the opportunity to handle the D800 yesterday and make a few shots, and I was surprised how robust the body felt. Better than a D700 I think, although I didn't have one there to compare directly with. The D700 feels quite a bit better than the 5DII, but I haven't yet tried the 5DIII, so I cannot comment on that.

The D800 body was great, everything was where I expected it, the new LV button is a nice improvement, and there was clearly careful attention paid to the ergonomics here. I was afraid of this, coming from a D3, but I think it will be quite okay. The grip was the perfect size (maybe my hands are larger?), and I can easily handle the body with one hand, using the other hand for settings or whatever. Really nice. The weight is lower than the D700, which is very welcome, coming from a D3.

The one thing which gave me pause was focusing. I made four shots, and only got two in focus, and one was borderline. This was with a 100MP though, which can be tricky to focus, but clearly, this camera will be a beast to focus with. The problem is not the AF system or focus indicators, which are at least as good as on a D700, but simply the monstrous resolution which highlights every small error. The LV seems capable of showing where the focus point is with almost no slop, but the missing lines makes it not that visually attractive while doing so.

I was very surprised at the dynamic range of the photos. It wasn't obvious at a glance, but I pulled data out of a shot which looked like it had blown-out skin tones, and it looked great afterwards. Combined with the clean shadows, that is just amazing, and I guess the image quality is simply unmatched by anyone, for photography. For video, I understand that the 5DIII pulls ahead, although it does look like high NR is partly the reason for better high ISO here, i.e. it loses detail compared to the D800.

-

Okay, I am going to use this opportunity to vent a little on Canon ergonomics. Why do they have four completely different ergonomic layouts (1D series, 5D/7D and smaller bodies series, 50D and 60D)? It is like they haven't figured out what works best yet, and so they are stumbling around in the dark. Every Nikon I pick up has almost the same layout, with some minor deviations for the pro bodies due to the extra space, and some missing buttons on the low-end bodies, and of course minor differences in each new generation due to continual incremental refinement. With a Nikon, you instinctively know how to operate it within seconds, but whenever I pick up a Canon (several friends have them), I have to hunt around and figure out if/which buttons are doubly assigned, where the various buttons are, and so on, in spite of being a former 5D owner, and having used a 5DII for some time.



Jun 10, 2012 at 07:04 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #14 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


carstenw wrote:
The one thing which gave me pause was focusing. I made four shots, and only got two in focus, and one was borderline. This was with a 100MP though, which can be tricky to focus, but clearly, this camera will be a beast to focus with. The problem is not the AF system or focus indicators, which are at least as good as on a D700, but simply the monstrous resolution which highlights every small error.


I was very disappointed to read this, particularly with a longish lens, which generally is easier to ascertain focus better than a wide angle. I hear what you're saying about the resolution but I suspect the real problem may be the focusing screen not visually giving enough feedback as to when focus pops in and out. If it's a problem with a 100, I would expect it to be almost impossible with something like a 21 or 24mm lens without the use of LV. This is one area where I really enjoyed the finder of the Sony a900 as well as it's manual focus screen.



Jun 10, 2012 at 07:23 AM
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p.5 #15 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Look carstew, I do not discuss Canon or Nikon in general as different photo-philosophy approaches. I simply compare 5D3 and D800 side by side and not their ancestors. Also I try to figure out pros and cons of both cameras as long as you write only "my beloved nikon" words. Nobody argues that D800 LV impln is better with a dedicated button than D700, and 5D2 has the button as well, so is 5D2 better than D700? Why do Nikon designers use "o" symbol to mean zero "0"? Because Nikon is a photo corporation mainly? It drives me crazy as well as you are mad about different button layout styles on Canon DSLRs. Who cares?

Please don't be so offensive to Canon - it looks silly. Both cameras have plenty minuses as well as pluses. Maybe you like D800 grip because its designer has the same kind of hands as you have, who knows. And if MP count is considered - do you think that 36 MP sensor highlights user errors and 23 MP sensor doesn't?



Jun 10, 2012 at 07:29 AM
isaacimage
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p.5 #16 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


D800 + 100 MP
1

YAN_2189 by IsaacImage, on Flickr
2

YAN_2186 by IsaacImage, on Flickr
3

YAN_2254 by IsaacImage, on Flickr




Jun 10, 2012 at 09:25 AM
joakim
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p.5 #17 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


carstenw wrote:
...Why do they have four completely different ergonomic layouts (1D series, 5D/7D and smaller bodies series, 50D and 60D)? It is like they haven't figured out what works best yet, and so they are stumbling around in the dark. ...


I have to agree on this owning both a 1D and a 5D it can be really confusing, when it comes to handling the camera, to switch between the two. The 5D Mrk II certainly is inferior to the 1D Mrk IV, more than expected just because one is a pro model and the other a semi-pro model.



Jun 10, 2012 at 10:00 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.5 #18 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


Have to agree with the above regarding Canon ergonomic layout. I was helping a friend out a month or so ago who had a 60D and despite the fact that we have both used many Canon's over the past 20+ years or so, (T90's, EOS-3's, 5D's, etc.), we both were stumped for about five minutes, digging though menu's, etc. just trying to do something very simple. I'm sure the 5DIII is much better (folks claim it's like a mini 1D after all), but the mid to low end Canon ergo is just atrocious and unintuitive. I will say though that the Canon vs Nikon ergo layout in general though - particularly at the upper end- is just about what one gets used to using. I have been back and forth between the two many times over the years and each switch took a while to adjust to. Just a completely different design ethos between Canon and Nikon.


Jun 10, 2012 at 12:01 PM
snowboarder
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p.5 #19 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


carstenw wrote:
The one thing which gave me pause was focusing. I made four shots, and only got two in focus, and one was borderline. This was with a 100MP though, which can be tricky to focus, but clearly, this camera will be a beast to focus with. The problem is not the AF system or focus indicators, which are at least as good as on a D700, but simply the monstrous resolution which highlights every small error.



I'm starting to feel that resolution is much more of a disadvantage than any real improvement.
It seems to be really hard to take sharp pictures and the result is not showing as much detail improvement as predicted.
Even those sharp eyes - yes, impressive - could easily be achieved with a lower resolution sensor and a good lens.



Jun 10, 2012 at 12:56 PM
wfrank
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p.5 #20 · Nikon D800 + Zeiss ZF lenses - ur experience


While I agree it's different (ergo for Canon's various series) I wouldnt say it's bad at low end. If you'd care to learn you can for sure handle those cams quickly. Playing around for 5 minutes w/o understanding where to find things doesnt count.

In fact, moving from an XXXD to 7D was - in some user aspects - a step backwards. But then I had been using XXXD's for several years. Those cams are not about digging through menus at all.

Add to that the new 650D just released. It has a few things the 5D3 would benefit from (and D800 for that matter). Touchscreen (apparently very well implemented according to dpreview) and of course a swivel screen.




Jun 10, 2012 at 01:03 PM
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