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Archive 2012 · Gear vs Talent...

  
 
vin14
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p.3 #1 · Gear vs Talent...


Ben Horne wrote:
People who enjoy cameras aren't necessarily interested in photography as an art --- and there is nothing wrong with that.


well put!



May 16, 2012 at 07:36 AM
twistedlim
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p.3 #2 · Gear vs Talent...


anthonygh wrote:
To be blunt...how many people on sites like this equate owning and using the latest gear as synonymous with being a quality photographer? And adding to that...what is a good gear limit for good images?


There is really no gear limit. Anyone can create good images with whatever camera. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think people are attracted to new gear because it helps them obtain the images they want to capture, or they perceived it will help. Latest gear? Eh, who cares? To ask for a limit you are essentially specifying a boundary.

For me if I had a $1000 limit I would own a used Canon 5d and a used 50 1.4 and would hardly ever feel limited.

For 2 grand I would add a couple more non L primes. As your budget goes up so does the gear you can add.

In my opinion photography should capture a subject in such a way that cannot be duplicated with video, paint, sketch, written word or any other art medium. They you have a unique form of art.

Knowing your equipment and it capabilities and limitations is essential. The better your equipment list the fewer limitations you will run into. Does this make you better? No. Does it make you more capable? Yes.


Example:
http://gizmodo.com/171590/pinhole-camera-truck



May 16, 2012 at 07:53 AM
RustyBug
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p.3 #3 · Gear vs Talent...


howard wrote:
A talent without the tools can only daydream.


A resourceful and creative talent will use lesser (or "inappropriate") tools beyond their perceived limitations to produce works of wonder ... while still dreaming of better tools.

Those lacking of talent (drive to develop) will dream that better tools will improve their talent.



Edited on May 16, 2012 at 08:30 AM · View previous versions



May 16, 2012 at 08:20 AM
Dragonfire
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p.3 #4 · Gear vs Talent...


RCicala wrote:
I used to have a Porsche. It didn't make me a better driver.


If you purchased the Porsche when you were 18 it would have made you a better driver, if you survived



May 16, 2012 at 08:29 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #5 · Gear vs Talent...


howard wrote:
A talent without the tools can only daydream.


And, precisely, what better thing can tools do without talent?

Dan



May 16, 2012 at 08:30 AM
RCicala
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p.3 #6 · Gear vs Talent...


gdanmitchell wrote:
And, precisely, what better thing can tools do without talent?

Dan



Dan, I tried to resist, but I couldn't:

Make our cameras: http://www.news.com.au/business/canon-aims-for-all-robot-factories/story-fn7mjon9-1226355318628

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2012/05/15/1226355/584628-japan-canon.jpg

The thread has now come full circle



May 16, 2012 at 09:03 AM
bboule
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p.3 #7 · Gear vs Talent...


Nobody has mentioned the 3rd variable.. Time!

All the talent and the world and all the equipment in the world isn't going to overcome a lack of time to practice...

As an amateur who works full time outside of photography when I used to go to "camera club" it was obvious there were lots of images that retirees with money were getting that I would not be getting no matter how much talent or gear I had.. I simply do not have the ability to go take off for 6 weeks to some far away place. And I don't really have the money either, that stuff is much more expensive then gear. In the grand scheme of things gear really isn't all that expensive compared to something like travel costs.

Not as much of a factor for a pro but I'm sure it is there.. the shoot that pays the bills might be a wedding, that isn't going to help if the dream is to go shoot far away landscapes.



May 16, 2012 at 09:36 AM
ggreene
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p.3 #8 · Gear vs Talent...


bboule wrote:
Nobody has mentioned the 3rd variable.. Time!
All the talent and the world and all the equipment in the world isn't going to overcome a lack of time to practice...


I agree. I work full time outside of photography as well, and time is always the most precious of commodities.
Far more valuable then any gear I may buy. Not just from a shooting aspect either but also finding time to be
creative in post processing also.



May 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM
RDKirk
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p.3 #9 · Gear vs Talent...


In Ansel's day, cheap gear could barely hold focus and could be endlessly frustrating. These days, even a cheap DSLR has high enough tolerances for a knowledgeable photographer to do good work.

Yet, even today's cheap gear will show its limitations as the photographer improves or moves into a more specialized direction. It's not so much a basic image quality factor as it is less quantifiable factors.

I remember when I decided to get more seriously into bicycling and got a "good" aluminum road cycle that was under 25 pounds, then when I started using clipless pedals...then eventually when I got a titanium frame. Any of those differences might have been noticeable to a casual weekender, but hardly required: You spin the crank and it moves. For a person who was, however, spending four to six hours on the bike doing 50-100 miles per ride, those changes made a heck of a lot of difference (even as an amateur cyclist). A century on a titanium frame made a whale of a lot of difference from a century on an aluminum frame...but it's not something I'd necessarily have appreciated if I hadn't already done a lot of centuries on an aluminum frame.

There are simililar considerations with regard to cameras. A 5D3 or 1DX does operate more efficiently than a Rebel, and at the top end of craft, it makes a big difference.




May 16, 2012 at 10:38 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #10 · Gear vs Talent...


bboule wrote:
Nobody has mentioned the 3rd variable.. Time!

All the talent and the world and all the equipment in the world isn't going to overcome a lack of time to practice...


Absolutely true. This has always been clear to me due to my background in music where a thing called practice was the most important tool for becoming very good and maintaining that state. And it was also very, very clear that no amount of "hardware" (e.g. - "better instrument") was going to replace that or even make more than the tiniest, insignificant difference without that fundamental thing.

Practice develops a whole series of closely interrelated attributes without which good stuff won't be made. Some of these attributes are fairly objective - in photography the ability to quickly and almost intuitively "know" the right way(s) to deal with a given situation, to a large extent based on making the technical and mechanical stuff almost intuitive. Others are highly subjective - the development of a style, a way of seeing, and a deep familiarity with what does and doesn't work visually.

Gear is not unimportant, but its effect on the overall quality of what we do - in photography, in music, in cooking, in just about anything that involves the use of tools to produce something of affective value - is quite small relative to the giant, glaring thing that really makes a difference.

In some cases - perhaps too many cases in some circumstances - an obsessive focus on the "stuff" used by people who make/do interesting and cool things (cyclists, photographers, musicians, race car drivers, chefs, etc.) reveals at least two things about those with the obsession, one of which is positive and one of which is potentially much less so. The positive is that the interest in the people who do those things and what they manage to do is evidence of a hopeful belief that each of us can be more than what we are and that we want to grow and change. The less positive thing is that we can be sidetracked by the superficial things that we take to signify such admirable people - their bicycles, their cameras, their musical instruments, their cars - and divert our attention from what it is we really wish to experience or achieve, the powerful human nature of what they do. In the end, tools are just tools - only a potential means to that end. In and of themselves they have very, very limited value.

The only reason anyone cares about what Ansel (who was mentioned earlier in this thread) said about gear is because we care a hell of a lot about what he did with it. And the latter is the important thing to look at, wonder at, think about, and perhaps even try to emulate.

More attention to the tools will not get you very far in the grand scheme. Appropriate attention to tools can make a difference at some level, but only in a significant way insofar as primary attention is focused on these other things. In photography, that other thing is the nature and quality of photographs and how they speak.

Take care,

Dan

RDKirk - At one point in my life I was also a cyclist, and I went through a similar process - so I can relate. But in the end, the gear - as cool as it seemed at first - was just a means to being able to be on the bike and do the thing called cycling. :-)



May 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM
Tom K.
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p.3 #11 · Gear vs Talent...


Talent and hard work and luck are much more important than equipment.


May 16, 2012 at 11:10 AM
Red 90
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p.3 #12 · Gear vs Talent...


At the end of the day the main objective of photography is to produce and awesome product and enjoy it while you do it.

In my opinion the best way to achieve the outcome is a factor of several things. For myself the best way for me to improve on my art is really having the time and practice to do it. I also research and study photography, technique and composition to understand what I try to achieve.

That is not to say that my gear doesn't aid me in becoming a good photographer. Better gear expands the possibilities of my photography. Newer gear allows me to take photos in low light and in focus at an acceptable image quality. You couldn't do that several years ago. As well, with the information provided in the camera, we are now able to review and modify our technique to produce what we want. I can't imagine how long it would take me to achieve the skills that I have now if I were to learn it from the years of film where you have to take notes, develop film and then see the outcome of what you've done.

I believe most people on this forum understand the differences between gear and talent, as most people that are on the forum strive to become better photographers through time and practice. There will however always be a lot of people that don't have the time or will to practice and think that the gear will magically produce the great photos for them.



May 16, 2012 at 11:18 AM
nburwell
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p.3 #13 · Gear vs Talent...


While I don't need to have the latest and greatest in terms of gear, it also doesn't hurt to have good, quality gear at the same time. I currently shoot with a 5DII and I have no plans to upgrade to the 5DIII at any point. I would much rather invest my money in lens, and I suppose that is why all the lens I own are "L's" (I might be perceived as a snob in that regard). But I would happily shoot with a 5Dc or even a Rebel with the lenses I currently own.

However, I do feel as though the photographer makes the picture, while the camera body and lenses aid the photographer in achieving the final outcome.

-Nick



May 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #14 · Gear vs Talent...


Of course talent sets photographers apart, but persistence increases the odds of getting lucky. At the end of the day, one must know how to take advantage of their equipment regardless of how expensive it is. Knowing your gear's abilities, flaws and streghts plays a role when you are in the right place at the right time.


May 16, 2012 at 11:29 AM
StillFingerz
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p.3 #15 · Gear vs Talent...


Red 90 wrote:
At the end of the day the main objective of photography is to produce and awesome product and enjoy it while you do it.

In my opinion the best way to achieve the outcome is a factor of several things. For myself the best way for me to improve on my art is really having the time and practice to do it. I also research and study photography, technique and composition to understand what I try to achieve.

That is not to say that my gear doesn't aid me in becoming a good photographer. Better gear expands the possibilities of my
...Show more

Well said RED...30 yrs with film, in the darkroom you do indeed discover your craft/hobby and I wouldn't give up that experience for anything...

That said, with the fast turn-around time, digital can/does accelerate the process, a fast computer with Lightroom/Photoshop and a Intros tablet are quite fun.

Dodging n burning were fun, the chemicals were really sucky tho .

Edited on May 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM · View previous versions



May 16, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Bsmooth
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p.3 #16 · Gear vs Talent...


Talent and equipment, I wonder If they even belong in the same thought or sentence. There are countless of us who strive to improve our images every single day. Some of us will get better, some of us will improve dramatically. Some seem to have the "eye", and some don't. We can technically get better, but some of us I'm afraid will eventually reach a limit regardless of how hard we try. I think I fall into that category myself.
It sometime amazes me when I put up an image for critiqueing. What another sees in my very photo that I never saw at all, it happens all the time, I should know I've done it enough times.
I listen to and watch what they "see" hoping that somehow I now "know" it as well.
I have learned simpler is better, certain compositions work and others not as well.
Experiment all the time.
I like to think I haven't reached "my limit", but I also realize at times I may just be fooling myself. So we all go on taking images, but what I see along the way is pretty awesome as well.Because I see others work as well, and learn.
Isn't the equipment just and end to a means of getting what we want? Just look at the lensbabies series of lenses, not exactly cutting edge, more akin to a peephole camera, but If people like it and have fun, who's to say.
Soo many people with blinders on these days, that don't ever look to the right or left, I almost feel sorry for what there missing, and will never see.



May 16, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Jayem2
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p.3 #17 · Gear vs Talent...


I have no talents in photography, and I have accumulated some nice gears. What should I do?


May 16, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Dragonfire
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p.3 #18 · Gear vs Talent...


Jayem1 wrote:
I have no talents in photography, and I have accumulated some nice gears. What should I do?


Buy baby, buy



May 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM
Jayem2
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p.3 #19 · Gear vs Talent...


Hey, Frank! That's what I did.


May 16, 2012 at 12:38 PM
snapsy
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p.3 #20 · Gear vs Talent...


Speaking from personal experience, newer gear can actually be a detriment to one's shooting and artistic growth. Perhaps I'm an extreme example because I try so many cameras but the benefits of being deeply familiar with a particular camera and set of lenses cannot be overstated. By "deeply familiar" I mean being able to use all the controls blindfolded and quickly, knowing all the nuances of its AF/metering behavior and most importantly, knowing how the files handle post processing and changing your shooting behavior accordingly (in particular exposure).



May 16, 2012 at 12:57 PM
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