I have been a long time lurker and finally have something to ask of you guys now I'm looking to put together a mirrorless kit as a less bulky alternative for the times when my Canon 5DII setup is just too much to carry. It's rare that I even bring it with me anymore unless I'm specifically heading out to shoot and the Panasonic LX3 I have as a pocket camera just doesn't have good enough IQ. I've been mainly looking at m4/3 because of the lens selection but am open to other options like NEX. My budget is roughly $2000 but if it comes out less I'd be fine with that of course!
For lenses, I'm looking at primes only, for size and speed reasons. As far as I know none of the mirrorless systems have fast zooms. I'm open to MF but I haven't had the best of luck doing manual with alt lenses on my 5DII even with the Eg-S screen so I'd prefer native AF lenses if possible. Ideally I'd like to cover 24, 35, 50 and 90 but there's no way I can do that and stay under budget, heh.The 12/25/45 m4/3 kit looks sweet but those three lenses alone are already over $1700. There are alternatives in the Panasonic 14/2.5 and 20/1.7 but I haven't seen much about the 14 and am not really a fan of the images of the 20 (what I've seen tends to be rather harsh-looking). The Oly 17/2.8 doesn't seem to be that great either. So I'm not sure where to go with lenses on m4/3 (the only sure bet is the 45/1.8 based on all the amazing images I've seen with it!). On the NEX side there's the 16, 24 and the 50 but the 16 seems to be rather lackluster and the 24 is quite expensive as well. Not sure if there are any reasonable alt lenses that might cover this range.
As far as bodies go, I think I'm pretty set on the E-M5 for m4/3 based on all the features and IQ, but I've heard complaints about ergonomics because the actual camera is so small. On the other hand the NEX-7 looks fantastic from an ergonomic perspective but has no IS and costs more than the E-M5 leaving less for lenses. I haven't had a chance to handle either one in person yet but I will try to head down to B&H sometime soon and see for myself.
I'd also like to be able to do off-camera lighting. How well does either system handle this? I don't need TTL; manual is fine as long as they work with Pocketwizards. I already have a bag of Canon speedlites so if I can use them that would be nice. I'm expecting to do most of that kind of work with my 5DII but having the option wouldn't hurt.
Any thoughts or opinions would be welcome. Thanks!
I use a wireless flash trigger from ebay on my GF1's standard hotshoe, pretty sure it will work on EM5 too. Not sure of NEX-7's hotshoe is standard or not. For ergonomics you better handle it youself as it is pretty subjective.
NEX-7 uses the standard iISO Minolta shoe, ISO shoe adapters are available cheaply from ebay. Or you can get the Sony Speedlights and shoot with wireless TTL. Same goes for the Oly except it comes with an ISO shoe and can command wirelessly without an external flash mounted.
I think if you want AF, then the m43 system is the one to currently look at for the best selection of lenses and reasonable prices. But $2000 is going to restrict your options because I agree the OMD E-M5 and the 12/25/45 combo seems to be THE one to get at the moment. Personally I'd go with 7-14/25/45, but that's even more expensive. I've seen some good results from the Panny 14 and would probably opt for it over the 12 f/2 if budget was an issue, but combined with the 25 and 45 will still put you almost $300 over.
There are the $200 Sigma 19mm and 30mm lenses, available for both NEX and m43. While they're not really bokeh machines, they have very respectable resolution. See this test done by Lensrentals.com on the NEX-7.
The thing with alt lenses is the wide end. For either NEX and even more so m4/3, there are few wide angle options available at 12 or 16mm. There are the Voigtlander 12 and 15mm M mount lenses, but you're looking at around $600+ anyway, and there will be corner color shift issues from both on the NEX-7. Legacy SLR prime lenses are possible options, but you're not going to find anything wider than 17mm that isn't either a fisheye, huge, or expensive. And quite likely, the new m43 lenses are probably better quality anyway. You could go for a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 with an adapter, or a Sigma 10-20 or 12-24... But you don't want zooms...
I guess it really depends on what kind of photography you do. I think if it was me, I'd definitely get a 12 or 14 and the Panny 25mm and leave the 45 for later. In its place you could for the meantime go with an inexpensive legacy SLR 50 f/1.4/1.8 with adapter.
mawz wrote:
NEX-7 uses the standard iISO Minolta shoe, ISO shoe adapters are available cheaply from ebay. Or you can get the Sony Speedlights and shoot with wireless TTL. Same goes for the Oly except it comes with an ISO shoe and can command wirelessly without an external flash mounted.
Thanks, looks like PWs will work with either camera in standard triggering mode. I have three Canon speedlites already so I'd rather use those if I can.
rscheffler wrote:
I think if you want AF, then the m43 system is the one to currently look at for the best selection of lenses and reasonable prices. But $2000 is going to restrict your options because I agree the OMD E-M5 and the 12/25/45 combo seems to be THE one to get at the moment. Personally I'd go with 7-14/25/45, but that's even more expensive. I've seen some good results from the Panny 14 and would probably opt for it over the 12 f/2 if budget was an issue, but combined with the 25 and 45 will still put you almost $300 over.
There are the $200 Sigma 19mm and 30mm lenses, available for both NEX and m43. While they're not really bokeh machines, they have very respectable resolution. See this test done by Lensrentals.com on the NEX-7.
The thing with alt lenses is the wide end. For either NEX and even more so m4/3, there are few wide angle options available at 12 or 16mm. There are the Voigtlander 12 and 15mm M mount lenses, but you're looking at around $600+ anyway, and there will be corner color shift issues from both on the NEX-7. Legacy SLR prime lenses are possible options, but you're not going to find anything wider than 17mm that isn't either a fisheye, huge, or expensive. And quite likely, the new m43 lenses are probably better quality anyway. You could go for a Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 with an adapter, or a Sigma 10-20 or 12-24... But you don't want zooms...
I guess it really depends on what kind of photography you do. I think if it was me, I'd definitely get a 12 or 14 and the Panny 25mm and leave the 45 for later. In its place you could for the meantime go with an inexpensive legacy SLR 50 f/1.4/1.8 with adapter....Show more →
Nice, I didn't know about the Sigma lenses. The 19 looks better than the Oly 17 though it's only f/2.8. But the price is right so I'll definitely consider it. I'm not dead set against zooms. I'd definitely consider something like the 7-14 if I needed an ultrawide, but most of the native zooms on both systems are of the slow kit variety at f/3.5-5.6. The SLR zooms kind of defeat the point of getting a smaller system.
If I can only get 2 lenses to start with it'd be a ~35mm and a 85-90mm. I do portraits normally and the occasional event but would probably start doing other kinds of photography if I had a camera on me all the time. I do have an Oly OM 50/1.2 already so I can definitely use that but Jman13's review makes a strong case for the 45/1.8.
Also another question: I have some EOS adapters already for my OM lenses and I figured it would be simplest to get a m4/3 or NEX to EOS adapter and stack them with the existing ones if I want to use the alts. Is there anything wrong with this or would I be better off getting an adapter for every mount type?
I recently put together a MFT kit similar to what you want, for about what you want to pay: E-PL3, 12/2, 25/1.4, 45/1.8. I would still love to get some kind of fast 35-equiv, but that can wait for now, and later I will probably upgrade the body, but this one has the same sensor and focusing speed as the E-P3, which is pretty sweet. Great results!
Depends what you enjoy shooting. I've had both m4/3 and NEX7 and both have their advantages.
For typical running around shooting, the EM-5 is tough to beat with its great AF, IBIS etc
If you enjoy doing more landscape work though, NEX7 has some beautiful files, especially as base ISO. Some very good lenses now as well such as the Sigma 19/30 and the Sony 50mm f1.8 OSS. Stellar portrait lens thats only $300. Even the NEX kit zoom is pretty darn good stopped down a little.
The 16mm is better than its given credit for as well, and for $100 you can get an ultra wide converter to make it an 18mm
NEX7 with a 16 w/UWA, Sigma 19/30 and maybe the 50 1.8 would make for a great landscape kit
It can do more of course, just as the EM-5 can also do landscape type shooting, but I just don't think their is one camera that is best at everything.
EM-5 is a great street shooter, fast to focus, touch AF/shutter on the LCD screen etc. Just isnt going to match the 24meg APS-C files the NEX can deliver with good glass
X100 is another great option for general walk around. Its limited in a fixed focal lenght, but your also not carrying a bag of lenses either. Great IQ, compact size, and just a fun camera to shoot.
A lot of people enjoy it as a freshing change from the usual DSLR kit
I think I'd recommend the EM5, 14/2.5, 25/1.4, 45/1.8 as coming in close to your budget. Get the 14 off of EBay where it is around $160 from sellers in Asia who are splitting up kits and selling the lenses separately. Get the EM5 along with the FL300R and do the rebate. Sell the flash for say $100, gets the body price down to $900 effectively. Around $540 for the 25 and say $400 for the 45 and you've got your kit for $2000.
Is the 14 as good as the 12? Of course not, but it isn't shabby either and is insanely small. I'd say of the 12/25/45 "holy trinity" that the 12 is the worst value - most expensive and least impressive of the three (which is not saying it isn't a great lens, just pricey for what you get). So if I was going to sub one out and save some bucks it would be the 12 that would go in favor of a split kit 14 off EBay.
NEX seems to come into its own with adapted glass. For native AF m43 is in my opinion the obvious choice as a system unless one of the NEX lenses is exactly what you want and you need to stop motion as opposed to camera shake.
Good call on the E-M5 rebate, I had forgotten about it. I was intending on buying the camera from Amazon since I have a large gift card balance to use up and unfortunately they don't carry the flash. They do have the MMF-3 adapter though so I might just get that instead and sell it. I'm not a big fan of the 28mm FOV (prefer 24 or 35) which is also why I was hesitant on the 14 but I'll look into it more.
The NEX-7 files do look fantastic but I don't need the ultimate in image quality for this kit since it is a secondary system. It could fit in my budget with native lenses if I did the Sigma 19/30 and Sony 50 with the NEX-7. The f/2.8 of the Sigmas should be fine since it's APS-C. I will definitely try to make my way over to B&H this week and play with both systems and see which one fits me better.
I prefer the image quality and the handling of the NEX-7 over any of the m43 stuff, though the E-M5 is indeed nice. I find that it feels like a much more cramped body in use, though, because the controls and viewfinder are clustered toward the center of the camera. The NEX-7's viewfinder and dial placement makes the most of its small amount of real estate, and it's got the best image quality of any crop frame camera I've ever used.
Here's my basic kit:
NEX-7
Sony 16/2.8 + wide adapter
Sigma 30/2.8
Sony 50/1.8
That's easily manageable for $2k. For the price, it's probably best to buy the body with the kit zoom, and get the 16 at the same time if they're still doing the multi-lens bundle pricing. Even if you decide you don't want the kit zoom, you can make some money back reselling it (it sells for a premium, since the NEX-7 kit is the only way to get a black zoom).
I also use a variety of other lenses on the NEX, which you can add to suit. It's nice to have some kind of 100mm-ish prime to round out a travel kit.
If your looking for a system that is small, look at the new 2.7x crop Nikon cameras, the J1 and the V1. Supposedly, they rival the u4/3 for IQ. Look them up on dxo mark for their scores. At the moment, there are only 3 lenses, but Nikon should come out with others later.
I've been using the Nex-7 with only the Sigma 19, 30 and Sony 50, and it's an outrageously good, small setup for only $2K total. The Zeiss 24 is also good, but I sold mine to millsart, because I preferred the size and focal length of the Sigma 30.
So I headed over to B&H today on my lunch break and played around with both the NEX-7 and the E-M5. I ended up preferring the Olympus. The deciding factor was actually the EVF which I wasn't expecting. I wear glasses and had a pretty hard time seeing the entire EVF on the NEX-7 except when I was dead-on in the center. The Olympus was much more forgiving in that regard. True, it's partly due to the NEX viewfinder being larger. The Olympus EVF didn't feel cramped like some low-end APS-C DSLRs though. The eye-sensor on the NEX also seemed overly-sensitive as sometimes I would shift a bit and the EVF would switch off. Could also have also been due to my glasses.
Aside from that, I think the ergonomics were slightly better on the NEX-7. The E-M5 never felt cramped but the Playback and Fn1 buttons were sometimes hard to press especially when the camera was up to my eye. I liked the positioning of the dials on the E-M5 a little more but I had no problem with them on the NEX-7 either. But ultimately I found the E-M5 more usable because of the EVF issue.
For lenses, I think I will go with two lenses for now: the 45/1.8 and a wide, maybe the 14/2.5, Sigma 19/2.8 or even the 20/1.7. The 25/1.4 seems out of stock everywhere right now. I'd really like a fast 35 equivalent but it doesn't exist for m4/3 at the moment. 17/1.8 would be nice to have! Any suggestions on lenses for m4/3? Also, any thoughts on stacking adapters?
Mike F wrote:
For lenses, I think I will go with two lenses for now: the 45/1.8 and a wide, maybe the 14/2.5, Sigma 19/2.8 or even the 20/1.7. The 25/1.4 seems out of stock everywhere right now. I'd really like a fast 35 equivalent but it doesn't exist for m4/3 at the moment. 17/1.8 would be nice to have! Any suggestions on lenses for m4/3? Also, any thoughts on stacking adapters?
well you can get 17.5/0.95 from Voigtlander soon, but it's MF only.
I'm looking to put together a mirrorless kit as a less bulky alternative for the times when my Canon 5DII setup is just too much to carry. It's rare that I even bring it with me anymore unless I'm specifically heading out to shoot and the Panasonic LX3 I have as a pocket camera just doesn't have good enough IQ. I've been mainly looking at m4/3 because of the lens selection but am open to other options like NEX. My budget is roughly $2000 but if it comes out less I'd be fine with that of course!