itai195 wrote:
I don't see why anyone would get this over an X100
Size and image quality (the 24 Elmarit is excellent).
Anyway, it's interesting to see that Leica has not learned from the mistakes with the X1. When you have a live view camera, a good display is essential. Hopefully they've at least improved the AF. The X1 could have been a great camera had they put a decent display and a reasonably fast AF in it. They did not. Each time I use my X1 I get the urge to throw it in the nearest rubbish bin. And each time I forgive it once I see the resulting images. It looks like the X2 won't be any different,
Am I the only one that thinks the original X1 actually looks nicer? That raised mound under the hotshoe and the new oblong flash looks bad, to me, comparatively. Granted, I'm sure the extra hotshoe height was necessary for the EVF port.
I wonder if they fixed the dials on the top too, they moved so easily on the X1. Felt like a strong breeze could move them. I know some people complain about the X100 EC dial being too easy to turn, but it has about 5 times the tension of the X1 I had. Everytime I pulled it from my pocket they were changed. Big frustration
Its also too bad they didn't think to build in a thumb grip. The X1 had very little to hold onto due to its small size, but a Thumbs Up really make it super comfortable and pleasant to work with.
Would of been nice if they added a bit of a thumb notch on the back, especially since if you buy the EVF you can't add a Thumbs Up
While I'm complaining, I might add I think the choice to use the same body and lens and simply update the sensor was a bit of a mistake.
If they designed it from the ground up to be a APS-C camera and updated the optics to a 24mm f1.4 I think it would of been a pretty big seller at even a thousand dollars more expensive.
I'm a huge fan of 35mm equiv focal length, but f2.8 can feel a bit slow at times. Its only for a $200 Sigma NEX lens, but on a $2000 compact, I'd like something a bit faster for lower light and also to get a shallower DoF which really isn't much at only 24mm.
A f1.4 lens though would really make things pretty interesting and certainly set it apart from the likes the X100
denoir wrote:
Size and image quality (the 24 Elmarit is excellent).
Anyway, it's interesting to see that Leica has not learned from the mistakes with the X1. When you have a live view camera, a good display is essential. Hopefully they've at least improved the AF. The X1 could have been a great camera had they put a decent display and a reasonably fast AF in it. They did not. Each time I use my X1 I get the urge to throw it in the nearest rubbish bin. And each time I forgive it once I see the resulting images. It looks like the X2 won't be any different, ...Show more →
Having had both the X1 and two different X100's I found no real optical advantage in the X1 lens compared to the X100's. Both were very good and sharp, even edge to edge. Fuji had the advantage of being a stop faster of course.
I know you have a X1 Luka, but did you also buy a X100 ? What are you basing your opinion that the X1 has a better lens than the X100 of ?
I would imagine that, outside of cost, size would be the big issue with an f1.4 lens. Even with a fixed lens camera, I'd think a 24/1.4 would be pretty large.
douglasf13 wrote:
I would imagine that, outside of cost, size would be the big issue with an f1.4 lens. Even with a fixed lens camera, I'd think a 24/1.4 would be pretty large.
I think it would certainly bit a bit bigger, but, like Fuji showed with the X100, if you design the lens into the camera body, you can reduce the overall size a bit.
I doubt many people are buying the X2 specifically because it can fit into a pocket, rather because its a Leica. If you want a pocketable Leica they have the V series, aka Panasonics at a 50% markup.
Certainly couldn't be done with the current X1/2 style body, but is anyone that in love with that body style ? I wasn't it, it was alright, but merely keeping the same body and updating the sensor is a bit of a yawn.
Think about something like a normal M sized body, but with a fixed 24mm f1.4 equiv lens (or maybe a 35mm for a normal 50 if it would sell better) that is built into the body a bit to save size/weight and rather than the RF mechanism, a built in EVF. $4000 or so, it would be a huge hit
Leica RF style, useful built in EVF, and a 35 or 50 LUX equiv. It would be ideal for those who want a Leica but don't want a $7000 body and a $4000 lens to go with, and that may just use one focal length most of the time anyways, plus it would have AF and liveview on the LCD
Now sure, a Fuji XPro with 35mm f1.4 for about half the price does basically just that, BUT........ It doesn't have a red dot so to many people its just not as good
Jman13 wrote:
I can't believe both this and the M-Monochrom have 230k rear screens. Those first came out in like 2006. Heck, a 460k screen is now looked down upon as a negative, even though they are fairly usable, but let's face it, 920k or bust is the standard nowadays. 460 could be acceptable on the X2, but on the M-M, it's just embarrassing....it's a 5 figure camera, they can put a screen on it that at least keeps up with modern advanced point and shoots.
FlyPenFly wrote:
My guess is Leica simply doesn't have the electronics engineers who can keep updating the screen electronics and display logic for higher resolution screens.
With the exception of Mercedes, that seems to be the case for the majority of German firms. They suck at electronics.
I can believe it for the M9-M, but am surprised about the X2.
The M9 platform is nearing end of life, or so one would think. LL has a 2009 interview view with, I think Daniels, in which he explains the M9's electronics were basically a carry-over from the M8, which was developed externally by another German company. This was continued into the M9 because Leica's in-house resources at the time were tied up with the development of the S2, which from my understanding, doesn't suck from an electronics point of view - it's fast.
Taking a guess, there are probably components of this dated design, either software or hardware, that might make it unattractive for Leica to incorporate a modern high-rez LCD. Another guess is they'd rather leave that for the M10, which one assumes is a ground up redesign ,in terms of electronics.
As for the X2... yeah, they've had three years and certainly could have done more. It makes me wonder how much the camera is just a rebadging of the X1, though obviously the sensor is different, so there must be some other modernizations internally.
It would be nice to see something like an 'XM' with simply an M-mount and an even higher spec add-on EVF. I think they could do that... maybe for Photokina?
Bobu wrote:
You could be right redarding Leica, but there are many other German firms besides Mercedes that are competent in electronics like BMW, VW, Bosch, Siemens, Continental, Cassidian, ...
Boris
In all of those examples, compared to their Japanese and Korean counterparts, they're behind a generation or two.
The X1 firmware update supposedly sped up AF and the X2 is supposed to be faster?
If I remember, the X1 does have a notable size advantage over the X100 if I remember correctly.
You can't tilt the EVF on the X100 nor the NEX-7 (although you can at least tilt the screen on that).
The removable EVF is a good option I think. This is still a small camera bag camera but at least if you decide to just wear it on your neck or carry it naked all day the size difference from even the X100 is pretty big.
If it had a modern screen and the dials locked, I might pick one up used.
FAIL! It's pretty sad that this just announced X2 can't even outperform the older Fuji X100. Sean Reid just posted a review and the 12MP sensor of the X100 resolves more detail than the 16MP sensor in the X2. Guess there must be a pretty heavy AA filter used with the X2. He also found AF between the two to be about the same overall.
FlyPenFly wrote:
In all of those examples, compared to their Japanese and Korean counterparts, they're behind a generation or two.
Now we are a bit OT. You believe that the electronics of a VW or BMW are behind a Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc.? You see a difference between Mercedes and BMW? The ESC or ACC systems from Bosch or Conti are behind a system from Denso? I'm sure that this is all not true.
I'm no expert in military jets, but I've visited the Euro-Fighter production (Cassidian) and would be very surprised if any Korean or Japanese jet has signficantly better electronics.
2,6K for a PS with an EVF, sporting an f2.8 fixed lens that you cannot swap...
ok...really
Sometimes Leica reminds me of some religions, those with little moral and loads of money...
"Send me your money and you shall see the photographic heavens"
Ok...
Bobu wrote:
Now we are a bit OT. You believe that the electronics of a VW or BMW are behind a Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc.? You see a difference between Mercedes and BMW? The ESC or ACC systems from Bosch or Conti are behind a system from Denso? I'm sure that this is all not true.
I'm no expert in military jets, but I've visited the Euro-Fighter production and would be very surprised if any Korean or Japanese jet has signficantly better electronics.
Boris
Perhaps many of the german electronics are so sophisticated (some might say overly complex) that they tend to lack reliability? I have experienced that with many German auto electronics myself.
Jman13 wrote:
I can't believe both this and the M-Monochrom have 230k rear screens. Those first came out in like 2006. Heck, a 460k screen is now looked down upon as a negative, even though they are fairly usable, but let's face it, 920k or bust is the standard nowadays. 460 could be acceptable on the X2, but on the M-M, it's just embarrassing....it's a 5 figure camera, they can put a screen on it that at least keeps up with modern advanced point and shoots.
I'm starting to be worried about M10. It will probably use the same LCD too...
Can someone design a great FF mirrorless camera to work with M lenses? Please.
Because there's no hope those Leica morons will ever do that.
Amazing lenses and crappy cameras.
X1 really wasn't any more or less pocketable than the X100. Neither are going to fit into jeans, but both can easily fit into cargo shorts, jacket pockets etc. X1 is a bit lighter though, not that the X100 is heavy
The tiltable EVF does have its advantages, then again, the X100 has not only an OVF option, but also a LCD you can actually see in daylight.
And you don't have to worry about the X100 EVF falling out of your pocket which the VF2 had a habit of doing on the Olympus models
THey updated the VF-3 with a little latch which is nice, but it looks like Leica is just using the older VF2
FlyPenFly wrote:
The X1 firmware update supposedly sped up AF and the X2 is supposed to be faster?
If I remember, the X1 does have a notable size advantage over the X100 if I remember correctly.
You can't tilt the EVF on the X100 nor the NEX-7 (although you can at least tilt the screen on that).
The removable EVF is a good option I think. This is still a small camera bag camera but at least if you decide to just wear it on your neck or carry it naked all day the size difference from even the X100 is pretty big.
If it had a modern screen and the dials locked, I might pick one up used....Show more →
Bobu wrote:
Now we are a bit OT. You believe that the electronics of a VW or BMW are behind a Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc.? You see a difference between Mercedes and BMW? The ESC or ACC systems from Bosch or Conti are behind a system from Denso? I'm sure that this is all not true.
I'm no expert in military jets, but I've visited the Euro-Fighter production (Cassidian) and would be very surprised if any Korean or Japanese jet has signficantly better electronics.
Boris
The Koreans drove the development of the AESA radar implementation for the F-15SK, which was essentially the tesbed for this technology (it's also getting brought to the F-22 and the F-35) and is well ahead of the Eurofighter Typhoon's capabilities (which are on par with the F-22, despite having been in development almost a decade longer). Japan tends to do its own thing in terms of avionics, but they're involved in the F-35 development and while F-35 is IMHO an inferior fighter to the Typhoon, it does have more capable avionics (and is a much more capable strike platform).
