I think your situation in your part of the world sounds very different to here on our small (UK) island.
Our industry is indeed changing but many many experienced and talented full-time wedding pros in the UK are currently going out of business as they have decided not to adapt to the changing marketplace, or have been unable to adapt fast enough.
In fact the more I hear from our US cousins, the more I like the sound of relocationg my family, home and business to the US, but I guess you guys probably make it tougher for immigrants to get into your country than we do here in the UK, where we let in just about anyone?
MarcAnthony wrote:
I'm cringing at the thought of doing this. A bride contacted me wanting me to do two photos with selective coloring at a size of 20x30 for each one. I am half tempted to tell her that I will have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of the photo stating this effect was done with the photographers disapproval. Doesn't she know that every time a photographer does selective coloring babies in heaven cry?
Simple .. just sign it at the bottom with someone else's name.
Use Baines .. he's leaving the business. Wait .. if you use his name then it will probably become cool to selective color. Use DJ instead
Nic Cleave wrote:
In fact the more I hear from our US cousins, the more I like the sound of relocationg my family, home and business to the US, but I guess you guys probably make it tougher for immigrants to get into your country than we do here in the UK, where we let in just about anyone?
The analogy here is going into the high quality steakhouse and ask for Ketchup to spread all over the steak or a coke as a drink. Yeah the chef will cringe, but the manager will bring you a nice sealed bottle of either.
I'm not trying to call anybody out or looking for any kind of a fight - just want to offer an observation. The OP's post is about branding. His real concern is about consumption of that brand. Some of these analogies miss the mark a bit. If the steakhouse offers a Big Mac on request it does not ruin their brand. If they advertise it then it probably would. They can choose not to fulfill the customer's request based on their culinary moral and artistic principal. If Donald Trump, Leonardo DeCaprio, or Derek Jeter sit down and order one with price as no object then, well, I guess they have a decision to make don't they?
Once the cook delivers the delicious steak to the table, then he has done his job. How the customer then consumes that "art" is up to the customer. If you disagree with this, then perhaps you can explain how you go to your client's homes and make sure your photos are properly framed, displayed and lit. A client putting your image on a bathroom wall, with a tilt to it, and lit by a fluorescent fixture is the same thing as putting ketchup on the steak isn't it?
My day job is industrial equipment and I go into a lot of plants that make products for other companies to market. If a grocery store chain wants liver-and-onions flavored soda and approaches Coke or Pepsi to make it for them, the first question is not why that flavor. The first question is how many units and will you pay our price. The manufacturer doesn't put their brand name on it so they are not worried about their brand. By the same token, the OP can make the selective color print, not put his logo on it, and not ruin his brand. Or he can refuse on creative principals. Then if the client is Kim Kardashian and offers $20K for the print, well, I guess he has a decision to make doesn't he?
Selective color has been around since hand colored B&W portraits, and it will continue to go in and out of fashion. Just because you don't like it now, doesn't mean your PAYING CLIENT should be denied what SHE wants.
Look at it this way, there's a better than 50/50 chance the couple will end up divorced anyway, and the photos will be discarded...
jneilosu wrote:
As long as we all admit that this is totally selling out, then the customer is always right!
But I think it's important to know where the "line in the sand" is with regards to your work. I'm curious:
Tony
Jason P.
Spencer
Evan
Kurtis
Jamie
Todd
Would you do this?
You guys are a small sample of guys that have been on here for a while and are all full-timers (as far as I know).
I already know Chuck and Sergio's answers (granted, Chuck is newer to weddings, but is highly regarded here).
Depends on the situation. Most times I would probably say something like this...
"Hey XXX,
I'm glad you'd like to order them. I think those shots would be awesome on your walls. As far as the coloring issue, I'd highly recommend keeping them as either color or black & white. We typically don't do selective coloring because I think it's a look that will quickly be dated and I'd love for you to love your art for a long time. We will definitely do whatever you decide, but I just wanted to chime in with my professional opinion since I'm not crazy about that look as a long-term art piece... Let us know if we can print it in color or B&W for you. If you decide to go with the selective color just let us know and I can send you the total cost for the extra editing work as well. Thanks again, can't wait to get some stuff on your walls!"
lisy78 wrote:
Charge her for the edit (more than you would for a normal edit, in order to pay for the next thing).
when you deliver the prints, deliver 4 instead of 2. two with the selective color and two timeless prints.
Tell her the timeless ones are your gift to her... you want her to have gorgeous images that will stand the test of time if she gets "over" the funky selective color version as most of your clients in the did when the effect was popular 5-6 years ago. She can mount them behind the selective color ones and replace the selective color ones when she's ready for them.
You know, I read a lot of your posts on FM and I gotta say you are a creative, positive energy, problem solver, and the above is typical Alessandro genius.
As we would say here in Texas, you are one hell of an out-of-the-box thinkin', lemonade outta lemons makin' sumbitch! (for those outside of Texas that is actually a compliment in the vernacular).
RJKphoto wrote:
Selective color has been around since hand colored B&W portraits, and it will continue to go in and out of fashion. Just because you don't like it now, doesn't mean your PAYING CLIENT should be denied what SHE wants.
Look at it this way, there's a better than 50/50 chance the couple will end up divorced anyway, and the photos will be discarded...
I get why a lot of wedding photographers don’t like things like this but saying no gives the client the same feeling as asking for a steak to be well done and the French waiter wrinkling his nose and then saying steak is suddenly not available. To me, it’s rather pretentious and diva-esque and that feeling is not what I want associated with my business and is far more damaging than giving them a selectively coloured print while taking a wedge of their money for it.
Not every piece of work you do or take needs to 100% be exactly what you want to do or how you want to do it, it’s not your personal work, it’s work you do to pay the bills and of someone else’s wedding. Sometimes I do feel wedding photographers get over-invested in their work and it causes problems.
RichardLavigne wrote:
I may also suggest that the OP be a touch more discriminating when booking clients. He has suggested in the past that he books 60+ weddings a year. A booking rate that high suggests that his services are valuable and wanted... but perhaps not everyone is buying into his personal vision. I suggest raising rates and focusing on those that really get into the OP's style. The increased rates will allow him to work less and still maintain the level of lifestyle he's accustomed too and work with clients that are more directly in line with his ideals, limiting the possibility of this happening in the future which ultimately leads to even more satisfaction in the long term....Show more →
Seriously man? You think the way I run my business in any way relates to a request like this? Dude that's retarded. A bride asking for selective coloring has absolutely nothing to do with me being more discriminating or raising my rates. I work 60+ weddings a year because I want to not need to. All of my clients respect and love what I do and I book them because they all come from referrals. I have a lot of questions that I discuss with clients when I meet them but asking if they want selective coloring as an option is not one of them. That would go over really well. I say, "Hey, I had a great time meeting you but my final question is do you like it when everything is B&W except the flowers in color?" Bride says, "Yes, I do". I say "Sorry I can't do your wedding now. Something suddenly came up". I know $6000+ photographers that do this because they are asked to.
Tony Hoffer wrote:
Depends on the situation. Most times I would probably say something like this...
"Hey XXX,
I'm glad you'd like to order them. I think those shots would be awesome on your walls. As far as the coloring issue, I'd highly recommend keeping them as either color or black & white. We typically don't do selective coloring because I think it's a look that will quickly be dated and I'd love for you to love your art for a long time. We will definitely do whatever you decide, but I just wanted to chime in with my professional opinion since I'm not crazy about that look as a long-term art piece... Let us know if we can print it in color or B&W for you. If you decide to go with the selective color just let us know and I can send you the total cost for the extra editing work as well. Thanks again, can't wait to get some stuff on your walls!"...Show more →
This is a great response and I will probably go this route in my response to her.
I just told a client on Sunday almost verbatim what Tony said. The key here is to educate. Regardless, the client should get what they reasonably want if they're paying. If you're fighting it, you're just being an ass. I also like Ale's idea.
Tony,
Classy as usual, and the best advice so far in my opinion. I'm stubborn. I would have to at least gently push back before sending a 20X30 selective color to the lab.
TomHarmon wrote:
I know some people will tell you to do it because it's what the client wants, but I think your images need to reflect your brand and if selective coloring doesn't do that, you need to explain to her why. I would hate to have something that doesn't reflect my best work printed at 20x30.
There's always the part of my brain that says, "If someone wants two images in selective color in a 20x30 canvas, then:
#1 - they're willing to pay for it
#2 - it's up to them
#3 - if I don't do it, they'll try to do it on their own and totally destroy my image
#3 worries me the most. I'd probably do it for them, and explain to them that it's not really your style.
The likelihood of someone else booking you because of your amazing selective color shots is minimal.
I am going to liven this post up a little with a real example of selective color from my first wedding many years ago. Note that this also has the "fashion glow" filter applied...I won't charge you extra for that advice.
MarcAnthony wrote:
A bride asking for selective coloring has absolutely nothing to do with me being more discriminating or raising my rates.
I do agree with this. I have had a few clients who have requested it, and they were from both ends of our limited range. I have heard very wealthy people in the past 6 months talking about this "new" thing where only one thing is in color and how amazing and original it is.
