p.6 #2 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Thank you for such a wonderful thread with beautiful pictures showing here Boris and Philippe. I appreciate your effort.
Boris, The pictures you showing here just beautiful. very inspiring. I enjoy those very much; And thanks for the write up for the Leica experience. I have to agree you about Leica's weight and glass advantage and as a serious landscape tool has its limit especially in term of filter use.
As for color, I feel most of your pictures are proper and beautiful to look at and only very small portion of them (in pg4) are on the strong side to my taste. I guess the reason for the argument is yours and Philippe's photo are totally different I respect both of your personal preference here. For artists' choices, there is no right or wrong on this regard.
In both of my Lightroom LR3&4 version, Leica's default color are totally different than my Nikon. I start to getting used to it, but I feel it more close to the film picture I saw from my memory and internet.But I feel Canikon's color are more truer to life, and Leica's output are more saturated, good or not? it is really up to personal taste. Following Leica thread, you can easily detect its signature if not B&W pictures. I don't prefer either and treat them as different tool for my 'drawing'.
I feel M9 has good green and blue, but always give me problem on red(purple, cyan, orange etc..) At ISO400, I start to see color noise easily. Even you can push the file in shadow at base ISO, the noise will be apparent. So I guess the dynamic range is definitely not to the level of sony/nikon SOTA sensor, not even in my D700 level I'd say. So on screen, I prefer my extreme clean D700's output, but M9's print is just beautiful/better, especially those saturated color are stunning to look at it in paper.
these are just some personal thought to share with my limited experience with M9.
I am sure with more use with it, you will be better and better. I am looking forward to your next adventure.
p.6 #4 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Thanks te4o, Jaakko, Joakim, Gary and Zhangyue!
On day 7 we went from Puyuhuapi, a small Fishing village founded by german saddlers in 1935, to Caleta Gonzalo in the beautiful Pumalin Nationalpark, founded bei Douglas Tompkins, where we stayed two nights. This was also the northern end of our trip along the Carretera Austral.
p.6 #8 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Bobu wrote:
Andrew, I think you are right. In my opinion in some images the colors/WB are not perfect. In some cases I really tried hard to adjust them without finding a good solution. Maybe this has something to do with my lack of experience with Leica colors (or adjustment of Leica colors in LR), maybe in some situations the colors of the Leica system are not as good as the colors of the Canon system. I'm not sure yet.
What I've experienced is, that the colors are way off with the M9, when you use a dark ND filter in strong sunlight. This is for sure due to the high IR sensitivity of the M9. With cloudy skies or in the shadow this problem is significantly reduced.
Very nice images Philippe and Boris! The trails and that suspension bridge look amazing. Philippe - that's an interesting comparison of the lake scene between the Canon and Sony. I prefer the Sony version, though some of it might be due to the very long shutter speed giving the water a very smooth feel.
Boris, I would like to know what ND filtration strengths you brought and which you found most useful. With the very dark ND filter, do you think using an IR filter along with it would help counter the IR problem, or just make matters worse? I could see it might conflict with the adjustments the M9 makes due to each lens's coding.
Regarding your comments about the lenses: I've observed that each of my Leica lenses has slightly different color shift (which I also found with my various Canon L lenses), often enough to be visible in comparisons of the same scene. For example, the 28 Cron is the most obvious with a magenta shift, which results in purplish blue skies if processed with the same settings as say the 90 Summarit. And its rendering can be quite different. It seems to vignette even when stopped down, resulting in darker skies. The 90 Summarit's color bias is a bit in the opposite direction. I feel the 50 and 21 Lux are in the middle. The best solution is probably to shoot a color chart for each lens and make a custom profile for each, but of course I haven't done that and instead play around with the various LR hue sliders. For example, if the sky is a bit on the magenta side but the WB on the whole looks good, I'll pull the blue hue slider a bit to the aqua side.
I think the consensus on the M8/M9 thread is in agreement with your assessment of the 28 Cron. You will probably get disagreement about the 50 Lux, but not necessarily from me. I really like the lens a lot on the M9, especially if I plan to work at or near wide open and want neutral background rendering. But sometimes its handling of focus transition is a bit harsh. And at very close distances at or near wide open it's not razor sharp. The Zeiss ZM 50 Planar and the Voigtlander 50 f/1.5 Aspherical are centrally sharper at close distances (though the CV has purple blooming issues in high contrast transitions), but the Lux seems to have better edge to edge consistency at wider apertures and at greater distances. I've found both the ZM and the CV need to be stopped down a bit, more so the CV, for the edges to catch up in 'landscape' type situations.
Thanks also for the breakdown of lens use. I was going to ask about 18mm vs. 21mm being quite similar focal lengths, which you answered. But I'm curious, do you think perhaps the Zeiss 18 would have been a better choice for this situation, especially in regards to filters? Though here it would require 58mm filters which are not Leica standard. I seem to remember you owned one, but after comparing it against the Leica, you seemed to like the Leica's rendering a bit more... Did you consider the WATE? But I think the tradeoff would be image quality that can't match the primes, especially the SEM 21.
Sorry for the length, but one additional question: could you comment on how you used the M9s in less than ideal weather conditions? The M9 is often criticized for having no weather sealing, therefore implying it will be more sensitive to poor weather conditions than other cameras. What precautions did you take?
p.6 #9 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
David R. wrote:
I've been following this thread since it started. I'm intrigued. Fanboism run rampant maybe? With Safari on iMac most of Bobu's images seem unnatural, over saturated and overworked.Some images are even hard to look at. Philber you know your fellow FMer's way more than you know me (so their opinion etc) but your more realistic images give me more idea of the actual landscape. In p.4#4 the last photo (almost black and white bay with mountains )is easily the most emotive.That is a hanger,a lot of the rest (Bobu)are verging on kitch or like eating too much chocolate.
I agree but you're using different adjectives and descriptive phrases than I would. I would say Philber's shots look almost completely unprocessed and agree that they give the best idea of what anyone's shots would look like SOOC. But in the next breath I would say that Bobu's are processed into highly finished works of art. Some of them were missed a bit for the scene but most are very good and a few are exceptionally awesome! Of the finished works posted so far these are my favorites:
p.6 #10 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Thanks peacefrog33756, ocean2059, Ron and Bif!
Ron, I used three different ND filters (all B+W MRC in 46mm): 0.9, 1.8 and 3.0.
I used the 0.9 only once and the 1.8 probably as often as the 3.0. On my next trip I will leave the 0.9 at home and just take the 1.8 and 3.0.
Regarding Zeiss 18mm vs. Leica 18mm. The difference between theses two lenses is very small. The Zeiss has a bit higher contrast and the Leica a bit better colors. My main reason to switch to the Leica was the 6-bit-coding. I had huge problems with manual coding the Zeiss (with the match kit) and I wanted to have the EXIF-info (and the automatic correction). The 58mm filter thread of the Zeiss would also not really solve my problem with filters, because all my filters are now 46mm, including the GND holder. That's because all other lenses have 46mm (the 90 Macro-Elmar with a 39-46 adapter). The WATE uses also bigger filters (and only with an adapter). Also the IQ of the WATE is definately not as good as the 21 SE (but still very good).
I used the M9 even in strong rain on this trip. My strategy was to avoid very long exposures (ND filter) and lens changes in strong rain and be as quick as possible with the shooting (but still using a tripod and carefull framing/composing) and wipe away all raindrops with a microfibre towel after each shot, before storing the camera in my waterproof camera bag (Lowepro Dryzone 100). I had not problems at all.
p.6 #12 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Bifurcator. All I can say is taste in art varies. No better answer for me than Philber's post p.6#4. Perhaps a little bit more punch needed but easily *more relatable and God I wish I was there*.Funnily enough the first picture in your post is the one that finally decided me to have a say. Bobu, thank you for the civility and good naturedness of your response(s).
p.6 #13 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Thanks Boris for answering my questions. Did you have any viewfinder fogging issues in high humidity conditions? I had it happen to me once so far on a damp, rainy, just above freezing day, and it wouldn't clear until I brought the camera back inside. I could still compose but the fogging was in the center of the viewfinder making precise focusing with non-wide lenses or at wider apertures extremely difficult.
p.6 #14 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
David R. wrote:
Bifurcator. All I can say is taste in art varies. No better answer for me than Philber's post p.6#4. Perhaps a little bit more punch needed but easily *more relatable and God I wish I was there*.Funnily enough the first picture in your post is the one that finally decided me to have a say. Bobu, thank you for the civility and good naturedness of your response(s).
Page 6 is this page. Is that the page you meant?
Anyway, sure we all have different taste. I wasn't participating in any debate or poll or anything tho. Just complimenting the images. They're all good!
p.6 #16 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Boris and Philippe, again I keep getting blown away by the great images!!! I am loving the two different perspectives on how each of yourselves perceive and feel, about the shots that you have taken
p.6 #17 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
charles.K wrote:
Boris and Philippe, again I keep getting blown away by the great images!!! I am loving the two different perspectives on how each of yourselves perceive and feel, about the shots that you have taken
p.6 #18 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
charles.K wrote:
Boris and Philippe, again I keep getting blown away by the great images!!! I am loving the two different perspectives on how each of yourselves perceive and feel, about the shots that you have taken
Yes, it is so interesting to see how two people compose, expose, and PP similar scenes. I do have a preference though for the punchier, warm, sharp images
p.6 #19 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
rscheffler wrote:
Thanks Boris for answering my questions. Did you have any viewfinder fogging issues in high humidity conditions? I had it happen to me once so far on a damp, rainy, just above freezing day, and it wouldn't clear until I brought the camera back inside. I could still compose but the fogging was in the center of the viewfinder making precise focusing with non-wide lenses or at wider apertures extremely difficult.
No problems with viewfinder fogging on the M9. Philippe had some slight problems with display fogging on his 5DII, but nothing serious.
And due to all the discussions here on FM whether a clear filter will help to protect a lens from mechanical damage or not, he also did a special test for the FM crowd with a very interesting outcome ...
p.6 #20 · Patagonia's carretera austral: two photographers and three systems
Thanks Charles, frezeiss and Gary.
Because I'm on a family meeting with no computer access in the next 3-4 days I will post my remaining images now. This will disturb the cronological order but will also give Philippe to option the take as much time as he wants to PP his remaining images.
I will answer and further questions on sunday evening.
I respect both of your personal preference here. For artists' choices, there is no right or wrong on this regard.