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Archive 2012Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
p.2 #2Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Nice review of the 5DIII.
He did make honorable mention of the D800 at least twice. Maybe one day he might review it too...
He did make honorable mention of the D800 at least twice. Maybe one day he might review it too...
Apr 21, 2012 at 05:06 AM
p.2 #3Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Yep, very interesting review! It's a shame the live view doesn't work as expected coming from the D7000 (or apparently all the Canon DSLRs). I didn't notice as big a difference between the 24 PC-E/TS-Es optically (obviously mechanically the TS-E smacks the PC-E), but that wasn't using much tilt or shift so will have to get them out again to compare
Apr 21, 2012 at 05:09 AM
p.2 #4Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
snapsy wrote:
The two previous Exmor sensor generations have selective readout modes which can be used to generate clean 100% magnified views, which is what the D7000 uses (and presumably what Canon uses for all of their sensors). This mode is necessary because the Nikon Expeed/Canon Digic processors aren't fast enough to read the entire sensor at 30fps. I haven't seen a datasheet for the 36MP Exmor but I assume it supports selective read-out as well. I think Nikon chose not to use it so that they could reuse the video logic for the Live View feed. From a technical POV I...Show more →
I think Nikon's implementation of Live VIew is hampered by two factors - the sensor readout issue that snapsy has articulated above, and the need for mechanical aperture control. Until they can do away with the lever that closes down the aperture mechanism, they will not be able to allow full-aperture focusing in Live View like Canon does.
jhinkey wrote
Hopefully Nikon can improve LV via a firmware update, though I suspect it's a hardware limitation at it's heart.I think Nikon's implementation of Live VIew is hampered by two factors - the sensor readout issue that snapsy has articulated above, and the need for mechanical aperture control. Until they can do away with the lever that closes down the aperture mechanism, they will not be able to allow full-aperture focusing in Live View like Canon does.
Apr 21, 2012 at 10:41 AM
p.2 #5Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
snapsy wrote:
Great review Fred. Regarding the D800's Live View, the poor acuity for focusing and grainy image in low light are the result of the same underlying implementation issue/decision - Nikon is skipping sensor lines for its Live View feed and this results both in poor edge sharpness for certain subjects and a higher gain necessary to offset the loss of light-gathering ability from skipping lines. I posted an updated video a few days ago about the D800 LV focusing issue and some tips on using picture controls to offset the problem. You can watch it here:
Thanks for posting this video - very informative.
Great review Fred. Regarding the D800's Live View, the poor acuity for focusing and grainy image in low light are the result of the same underlying implementation issue/decision - Nikon is skipping sensor lines for its Live View feed and this results both in poor edge sharpness for certain subjects and a higher gain necessary to offset the loss of light-gathering ability from skipping lines. I posted an updated video a few days ago about the D800 LV focusing issue and some tips on using picture controls to offset the problem. You can watch it here:
Thanks for posting this video - very informative.
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:21 AM
p.2 #6Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Love how everyone is saying the review was so informative. Seeing as you said things mostly already stated in other reviews, and that you used one lens with the D800 heh.
Apr 21, 2012 at 12:09 PM
p.2 #7Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Gregory.Rotter wrote:
Love how everyone is saying the review was so informative. Seeing as you said things mostly already stated in other reviews, and that you used one lens with the D800 heh.
I'm with you........it seemed completely biased. oh well, the guy is a Canon shooter, it was to be expected. at least he was nice enough to acknowledge the sensor on the D800, cuz the 5D3 blows it away in every other department.......right Freddy??
Love how everyone is saying the review was so informative. Seeing as you said things mostly already stated in other reviews, and that you used one lens with the D800 heh.
I'm with you........it seemed completely biased. oh well, the guy is a Canon shooter, it was to be expected. at least he was nice enough to acknowledge the sensor on the D800, cuz the 5D3 blows it away in every other department.......right Freddy??
Apr 21, 2012 at 03:55 PM
p.2 #8Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
I like this review, especially cause it comes from real photographer capable of shooting real and very good landscapes. Would like to know what he thinks about colors from both cameras (on print or wide-gamut LCD).
I dont think its biased review. Using one of best wide-angle lens with D800 isn't crippling its preformance. I was actually very curious about exactly this combination and Im pretty sure guys from alternative corner too.
Tho Im myself more curious about our dear noisy Sony and their way of using D800 sensor, cause except bit more noise over Nikon, they have bit of advantage in certain aspects. At least for me.
About 5DMK3 and AA filter. I think Canon is using very strong AA filter, but hes not using it like Nikon. Nikon AA filter is pretty good and is very carefuly aligned with sensor. Thats why their cameras dont tend to show moiré that much. Canon is using same approach, but only in 1D/s series. Not that much important for landscape shooting tho.. Simply put, they skimp on quality of AA filter and how they use it.
I dont think its biased review. Using one of best wide-angle lens with D800 isn't crippling its preformance. I was actually very curious about exactly this combination and Im pretty sure guys from alternative corner too.
Tho Im myself more curious about our dear noisy Sony and their way of using D800 sensor, cause except bit more noise over Nikon, they have bit of advantage in certain aspects. At least for me.
About 5DMK3 and AA filter. I think Canon is using very strong AA filter, but hes not using it like Nikon. Nikon AA filter is pretty good and is very carefuly aligned with sensor. Thats why their cameras dont tend to show moiré that much. Canon is using same approach, but only in 1D/s series. Not that much important for landscape shooting tho.. Simply put, they skimp on quality of AA filter and how they use it.
Apr 21, 2012 at 04:18 PM
p.2 #9Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
It is NOT A SONY SENSOR!!! It is a Nikon sensor, Sony fabs it.
Apr 21, 2012 at 04:31 PM
p.2 #10Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
I didn't say it was biased, i said he said some things we already knew, and posted a boatload of 5DMKIII pics, woop di do.
Apr 21, 2012 at 05:24 PM
p.2 #11Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Excellent review, I agree the D800 live view is a complete bitch in dark situations.
Apr 21, 2012 at 05:27 PM
p.2 #12Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Hi everyone,
Thank you for the comments and posts about the review. I'm glad most of you found the test report worth reading.
I did my best to be honest in explaining my personal experience while using both cameras. As mentioned in the review, I did have issues with a couple of Nikon lenses and the implementation of Live View and that is why there are fewer Nikon shots as apposed to Canon's in my report. The images illustrated throughout the review were meant to enhance the aesthetic of the essay they were not posted to insinuate that one camera is better or worse than the other. I think the best analysis can be taken from page two where equal sample shots are posted and you can draw your own conclusions from that.
All the best,
Fred
Thank you for the comments and posts about the review. I'm glad most of you found the test report worth reading.
I did my best to be honest in explaining my personal experience while using both cameras. As mentioned in the review, I did have issues with a couple of Nikon lenses and the implementation of Live View and that is why there are fewer Nikon shots as apposed to Canon's in my report. The images illustrated throughout the review were meant to enhance the aesthetic of the essay they were not posted to insinuate that one camera is better or worse than the other. I think the best analysis can be taken from page two where equal sample shots are posted and you can draw your own conclusions from that.
All the best,
Fred
Apr 21, 2012 at 05:37 PM
p.2 #13Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
I got to spend a bit of time yesterday with a D800 and a 5D Mark III, and now I'm seriously reconsidering my decision to order the D800.
I want the extra resolution and dynamic range for landscape shooting, but I rely on Live View for probably 90% of my shooting, and I find it pretty much mandatory with Tilt-Shift and other manual focus lenses. It seems that Nikon still hasn't figured out Live View, and have botched the implementation on this camera just like they've done with each of its predecessors.
I want the extra resolution and dynamic range for landscape shooting, but I rely on Live View for probably 90% of my shooting, and I find it pretty much mandatory with Tilt-Shift and other manual focus lenses. It seems that Nikon still hasn't figured out Live View, and have botched the implementation on this camera just like they've done with each of its predecessors.
Apr 22, 2012 at 08:12 AM
p.2 #14Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
That is concerning about the live view. What does it do? Does it adjust the gain and create such a noisy representation of the image that you cannot focus compounded by the interpolation issue?
Sounds to me like there are 2 issues with the live view. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Interpolation artifacts
2. Noisy live view display in low light.
Sounds to me like there are 2 issues with the live view. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Interpolation artifacts
2. Noisy live view display in low light.
Apr 22, 2012 at 08:19 AM
p.2 #15Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Avi B wrote:
It is NOT A SONY SENSOR!!! It is a Nikon sensor, Sony fabs it.
It is.. you will see soon. What you say is true about D4, but D800 is just Sony sensor with Nikon CFA/AA and electronics (which pretty much changes almost everything).
It is NOT A SONY SENSOR!!! It is a Nikon sensor, Sony fabs it.
It is.. you will see soon. What you say is true about D4, but D800 is just Sony sensor with Nikon CFA/AA and electronics (which pretty much changes almost everything
).Apr 22, 2012 at 08:22 AM
p.2 #16Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Hardcore wrote:
That is concerning about the live view. What does it do? Does it adjust the gain and create such a noisy representation of the image that you cannot focus compounded by the interpolation issue?
Sounds to me like there are 2 issues with the live view. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Interpolation artifacts
2. Noisy live view display in low light.
I didn't really notice the noise, but I wasn't testing it in really low light either. The biggest disappointment was that zoomed in at 100% (for critical focusing) the LV display was so badly interpolated that it was nearly impossible to judge sharpness.
The 5D Mark III suffers from this same issue, but to a lesser degree. At the maximum magnification on that camera, the image detail sharpness isn't great, but it's significantly clearer than on the D800. The old 5D Mark II seems to be superior to both cameras in this respect.
Also, it appeared that LV viewing and focusing on the D800 seems to done with the lens stopped down to whatever aperture the lens is set to, rather than wide open with the option of pressing the DOF preview button to check depth of field once you've picked your point of sharpest focus, as is the case with the Canon cameras. I plan to spend a bit more time tomorrow with a D800 to try to confirm this issue.
It seems to be the case with both the D800 and the 5D Mark III that the emphasis on video performance is having a negative impact on their usability as stills cameras - at least for shooting landscapes and architecture. I wonder if the LV problems could be fixable with a firmware update for either camera?
That is concerning about the live view. What does it do? Does it adjust the gain and create such a noisy representation of the image that you cannot focus compounded by the interpolation issue?
Sounds to me like there are 2 issues with the live view. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Interpolation artifacts
2. Noisy live view display in low light.
I didn't really notice the noise, but I wasn't testing it in really low light either. The biggest disappointment was that zoomed in at 100% (for critical focusing) the LV display was so badly interpolated that it was nearly impossible to judge sharpness.
The 5D Mark III suffers from this same issue, but to a lesser degree. At the maximum magnification on that camera, the image detail sharpness isn't great, but it's significantly clearer than on the D800. The old 5D Mark II seems to be superior to both cameras in this respect.
Also, it appeared that LV viewing and focusing on the D800 seems to done with the lens stopped down to whatever aperture the lens is set to, rather than wide open with the option of pressing the DOF preview button to check depth of field once you've picked your point of sharpest focus, as is the case with the Canon cameras. I plan to spend a bit more time tomorrow with a D800 to try to confirm this issue.
It seems to be the case with both the D800 and the 5D Mark III that the emphasis on video performance is having a negative impact on their usability as stills cameras - at least for shooting landscapes and architecture. I wonder if the LV problems could be fixable with a firmware update for either camera?
Apr 22, 2012 at 10:12 AM
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p.2 #17Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
interesting read about the LV feature, using the stopped down AV so it appears grainy.
However i am interested in it performance with some manual only glass, where you can set the aperture wide open before you start, focus, stop down and shoot.
would that change
anybody with some manual lenses care to offer insight?
thanks,
s
However i am interested in it performance with some manual only glass, where you can set the aperture wide open before you start, focus, stop down and shoot.
would that change
anybody with some manual lenses care to offer insight?thanks,
s
Apr 22, 2012 at 10:54 AM
p.2 #18Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
Thanks for the review Fred. I think I'm going to stay with my 5D II. No real improvement on the 5D III sensor and , from what I'm reading, lousy Live View performance on the D800. Most likely real klunky AEB/ Live View shooting too.
So the only reason to switch or upgrade to the D800 is for the state of the art sensor. but they will have to give me the basic features I want and need before they get my bucks.
It appears that both Canon and Nikon are trying to be all things to everyone and features that are needed for landscape shooters are taking a back seat....I may have to dust off my 5x7.
So the only reason to switch or upgrade to the D800 is for the state of the art sensor. but they will have to give me the basic features I want and need before they get my bucks.
It appears that both Canon and Nikon are trying to be all things to everyone and features that are needed for landscape shooters are taking a back seat....I may have to dust off my 5x7.
Apr 22, 2012 at 11:28 AM
p.2 #19Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
parsons wrote:
interesting read about the LV feature, using the stopped down AV so it appears grainy.
However i am interested in it performance with some manual only glass, where you can set the aperture wide open before you start, focus, stop down and shoot.
would that change anybody with some manual lenses care to offer insight?
thanks,
s
You can cheat Live View the same way. Say you have an exposure of f/16, 1/60, iso100 set but Live View is too dark? What to do? Two things.
1) Crank up brightness in LiveView
2) Crank your aperture wide-open which will lighten up the live view.. compose/focus... then set it back to the f/16 or whatever you want and shoot
I use a combo of the two methods above with the PC-E's and other MF glass [Zeiss, etc].
interesting read about the LV feature, using the stopped down AV so it appears grainy.
However i am interested in it performance with some manual only glass, where you can set the aperture wide open before you start, focus, stop down and shoot.
would that change
anybody with some manual lenses care to offer insight?thanks,
s
You can cheat Live View the same way. Say you have an exposure of f/16, 1/60, iso100 set but Live View is too dark? What to do? Two things.
1) Crank up brightness in LiveView
2) Crank your aperture wide-open which will lighten up the live view.. compose/focus... then set it back to the f/16 or whatever you want and shoot
I use a combo of the two methods above with the PC-E's and other MF glass [Zeiss, etc].
Apr 22, 2012 at 03:30 PM
p.2 #20Canon 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 Review
That will work I guess if your lens/lenses don't focus breathe.
R
R
Apr 22, 2012 at 06:37 PM