p.1 #2 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I thought it was interesting on Sony rumors that they said the new Nikon D3200 body is basically a Sony 7N sensor in a body with an optical viewfinder (and no translucent mirror). I almost want a D3200.
p.1 #6 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Since my 1ds3 sensor in 2007, Canon sensor development has not improved significantly.
5 yrs of sitting on their butts and watching Sony sensors go right past them.
Sounds like it won't be till next year before they have a high MP sensor.
Pretty pathetic sensor development. Hopefully I should have my rental D800 today to play with.
Apr 19, 2012 at 10:56 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #7 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
As usual with DXO looking at the measurements rather than the scores gives you a different picture. The Signal to Noise Ratio curves are basically on top of each other suggesting very similar noise performance throughout the range of ISO's, both are slightly better than the 5D MKII. Ditto for Tonal Range, which somehow is a major measurement category for DXO, but never makes it into their scores. For Tonal Range, if anything the 5D MKIII has a slight advantage. For Color Sensitivity, the D800 has a significant advantage, but this advantage is wholly attributable to the D800's higher resolution (note that if you click on the screen button instead of the print button the two graphs are again right on top of each other). This leaves us with Dynamic Range. Here the D800 has a big advantage at low ISO (100, 200, & 400) and a small advantage at 800. This advantage is due to a weird pattern in Canon's Dynamic Range that has been around for years. Canon's Dynamic Range isn't linearly related to ISO, instead it stops improving at low ISOs and is essentially flat at 800 and below. I'm not sure this is a problem in real world shooting, but if it is then Canon should fix it but they haven't for years.
So, the sum total of being spanked in these ratings is that the D800 has higher Color sensitivity scores due to its higher resolution, which could easily be expected and Canon still hasn't fixed its lack of improvement in Dynamic Range scores with decreasing ISO. As usual if you look at the measurements there is a lot more similarity here than what the scores seem to suggest (for example the D800 gets a better Sports-low light ISO score despite the two SNR graphs being right on top of each other).
I'm not saying that the D800 doesn't have a better sensor--it clearly does--just that as usual the DXO scores, as opposed to their measurements--don't accurately reflect either the magnitude of the difference or where the differences lie.
p.1 #10 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Steve Spencer wrote:
This advantage is due to a weird pattern in Canon's Dynamic Range that has been around for years. Canon's Dynamic Range isn't linearly related to ISO, instead it stops improving at low ISOs and is essentially flat at 800 and below. I'm not sure this is a problem in real world shooting, but if it is then Canon should fix it but they haven't for years.
The "weird pattern" used to be the standard way sensors worked. Then Sony invented new technology it calls EXMOR (basically, it has to do with how and where you convert the sensel signals from analog into digital) and it does have a considerably more linear response. Very roughly speaking, with EXMOR-type sensors you're approaching what's called an "isoless camera" -- a camera with no ISO settings, you always shoot at base ISO and apply digital gain in post-processing as required.
Yes, Canon's lack of DR is a problem in real-world shooting because the D800 shadows can be pushed FAR more than the 5D3 shadows. This is not relevant for everyone (there's been a lot of "expose properly!" cries over at the Canon forum), but it is a significant advantage to people who need this.
p.1 #11 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I can't say that I'm surprised, considering that the D800 tested better than any other sensor ever. It's Nikon's moment and it'll be interesting to see if they can truly capitalize on it. Justified or not, the rumors surrounding the D800 overpowering some of Nikon's most desirable glass may undermine those efforts. Canon's "stay the course" choices with IQ and focus on making a better user experience with the souped-up AF and other minor improvements may hurt their sales, but at least no one is questioning their glass. And the glass, in my opinion, has always been Canon's strongest argument for the EOS system.
p.1 #12 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
mco_970 wrote:
I thought it was interesting on Sony rumors that they said the new Nikon D3200 body is basically a Sony 7N sensor in a body with an optical viewfinder (and no translucent mirror). I almost want a D3200.
Ugh. I'd rather have the imperfect EVF of the NEX-7 than the dark little hole of an APS-C OVF.
Apr 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #13 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
:
KaaX responded:
The "weird pattern" used to be the standard way sensors worked. Then Sony invented new technology it calls EXMOR (basically, it has to do with how and where you convert the sensel signals from analog into digital) and it does have a considerably more linear response. Very roughly speaking, with EXMOR-type sensors you're approaching what's called an "isoless camera" -- a camera with no ISO settings, you always shoot at base ISO and apply digital gain in post-processing as required.
Yes, Canon's lack of DR is a problem in real-world shooting because the D800 shadows can be pushed FAR more than the 5D3 shadows. This is not relevant for everyone (there's been a lot of "expose properly!" cries over at the Canon forum), but it is a significant advantage to people who need this.
Thanks for that information, which makes a lot of sense and I hadn't heard it before. It also allows a nice tidy summary of the advantages of the D800 over the 5D MKIII. The D800 both has higher resolution and an EXMOR sensor that allow higher dynamic range at low ISO.
Another way to say this, however, is that the D3X and the D700 had the same EXMOR advantage over the 5D MKII as the D800 has over the 5D MKIII. There really is nothing new here. The real killer for Canon, however, is that the D800 wins in resolution, the EXMOR advantage, and price. And in an odd reversal the only area in which the 5D MKIII holds its own and maybe has an advantage is in AF. In contrast, the 5D MKII had a huge price advantage over the D3X and a huge resolution advantage and small price advantage over the D700, so it competed much more effectively. Oddly, IMO, the 5D MKIII would have been a huge hit if it came out when the 5D MKII did, but against the D800 it looks weak. The 5D MKIII is still a well rounded and very nice camera, but in comparison Nikon made a huge advance from the D700 to the D800. Going from a 12 megapixel camera to a 36 megapixel camera and keeping the price and the other aspects of the camera the same is a pretty amazing upgrade. In contrast going from a camera with weak AF to one with pretty good AF and raising the price significantly is a much smaller upgrade.
p.1 #17 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
I'm not sure how applicable DxO rating always are, but this is not at all surprising.
To those that say the 5d3 is "just as good", or even better - compared to the D800 - I would hope so, especially for a $4k camera (with grip). I'm just not seeing it from any/every thing I've seen so far on line. Those trying to nullify Nikon's advantage and saying "expose properly" are pretty clueless when you see the differences between Nikon's and Canon's shadow recovery (DR), but you can't argue with a fanboy (of any camp).
To me, the 5d3 is just a general body with *now* decent features (that are a full 3 years too late) and good IQ (nothing to get excited about though if you own a previous FF body) and the one to buy if you don't need the better quality and features of the Nikon.
IMO Canon stopped being competitive on sensors a long time ago. They long ago moved into a pure profit-taking mode, have relegated the "still photograph" market to second tier importance, and if it wasn't for their glass (before the huge price increases), they would be a very distant second class mfg IMO. As a many decade long Canon user, I'd take a 5d3 over the 5d2 at $2,500, but not $3,500 and I have no desire to spend any money on their gear, nor would I recommend them to anyone today....
p.1 #19 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
The D800's advantage in colour resolution does not come from having higher overall resolution but rather from having a stronger CFA which reduces metamerism and therefore improves colour resolution. Canon is using weak CFA's to offset their lower-performing sensors.
p.1 #20 · D800 spanked the 5DIII in every DXO category!
Steve Spencer wrote:
As usual with DXO looking at the measurements rather than the scores gives you a different picture. The Signal to Noise Ratio curves are basically on top of each other suggesting very similar noise performance throughout the range of ISO's, both are slightly better than the 5D MKII. Ditto for Tonal Range, which somehow is a major measurement category for DXO, but never makes it into their scores. For Tonal Range, if anything the 5D MKIII has a slight advantage. For Color Sensitivity, the D800 has a significant advantage, but this advantage is wholly attributable to the D800's higher resolution (note that if you click on the screen button instead of the print button the two graphs are again right on top of each other). This leaves us with Dynamic Range. Here the D800 has a big advantage at low ISO (100, 200, & 400) and a small advantage at 800. This advantage is due to a weird pattern in Canon's Dynamic Range that has been around for years. Canon's Dynamic Range isn't linearly related to ISO, instead it stops improving at low ISOs and is essentially flat at 800 and below. I'm not sure this is a problem in real world shooting, but if it is then Canon should fix it but they haven't for years.
So, the sum total of being spanked in these ratings is that the D800 has higher Color sensitivity scores due to its higher resolution, which could easily be expected and Canon still hasn't fixed its lack of improvement in Dynamic Range scores with decreasing ISO. As usual if you look at the measurements there is a lot more similarity here than what the scores seem to suggest (for example the D800 gets a better Sports-low light ISO score despite the two SNR graphs being right on top of each other).
I'm not saying that the D800 doesn't have a better sensor--it clearly does--just that as usual the DXO scores, as opposed to their measurements--don't accurately reflect either the magnitude of the difference or where the differences lie....Show more →
The big issue with rationalizing the discrepancy between the two in this way is that the higher MP sensor in the D800 has smaller sensels which logically should put it at an even greater disadvantage to the lower MP sensor in the 5DIII. The fact that the D800 sensor, even with it's higher MP/ smaller sensels, is still better justifies calling the 5DIII sensor "spanked".
way to get to the meat of the thread! 
