Lars Johnsson wrote:
I would belive it's an open standard. And I'm sure that Arca-Swiss like the other brands to use their standard. If they where the only company using it, they would sell a lot less of their plates, heads & clamps. it's the opposite from the Gimbal knock-offs here. Arca-Swiss gain when others use their standard.
I think there are 2 separate issues here. It may well be that A-S like it when other brands use their standard. Certainly it promotes their name. But it doesn't follow that it's an open standard. Even if they don't license it for money you'd think they'd at least ask that others formally acknowledge the attribution. But it's hard to tell what Arca think by their actions: they seem to be the type of company that's extremely good at what they're good at (specialty cameras, tripod heads) and kind of ridiculous at what they're not (website ...) Perhaps legal action is one of those things they're not good at. Or perhaps they're quite happy with the status quo. Or they can't be bothered one way or another.
But all brands are not exactly the same either. RRS say that you should only use RRS or Wimberley plates to be sure of 100% compability with their lever-clamps.
I have seen quite a few of the Chinese knock-off heads with their Arca style clamps and plates that doesn't fit so good either.
That's all true but they're all still recognizably Arca. They even say so.
The thread's not "drifting". It forked early. There seem to be two and a half conversations taking place all of which meet up with each other here and there. One is the discussion taking place about weather or not the BK-45 actually meets the criteria for being a true knock-off. The other is diction on/from an ethical introspection. And the half is an objective topic on how to use and/or whether or not to use, this unit with specific gear - based on spec and evaluation.
wfektar wrote:
I think there are 2 separate issues here. It may well be that A-S like it when other brands use their standard. Certainly it promotes their name. But it doesn't follow that it's an open standard. Even if they don't license it for money you'd think they'd at least ask that others formally acknowledge the attribution. But it's hard to tell what Arca think by their actions: they seem to be the type of company that's extremely good at what they're good at (specialty cameras, tripod heads) and kind of ridiculous at what they're not (website ...) Perhaps legal action is one of those things they're not good at. Or perhaps they're quite happy with the status quo. Or they can't be bothered one way or another.
That's all true but they're all still recognizably Arca. They even say so. ...Show more →
I ordered a BK-45 gimbal head through Amazon, and the ad said it had a QR plate included. At this time, I am not sure if I will need to order a longer plate or not. Do you know if the QR plate is the same as the Arca-Swiss standard you refer to?
Thanks
Bifurcator wrote:
The thread's not "drifting". It forked early. There seem to be two and a half conversations taking place all of which meet up with each other here and there. One is the discussion taking place about weather or not the BK-45 actually meets the criteria for being a true knock-off. The other is diction on/from an ethical introspection. And the half is an objective topic on how to use and/or whether or not to use, this unit with specific gear - based on spec and evaluation.
I looked up the meaning of your name and found this:
Bifurcator™ can be ...an optical splitter ... providing spectral separation (partial quote).
So should we expect anything less than a split or two on a thread you originated.
I am looking forward to trying out the gimbal mount. The main setup I intend is with a 7D and the EF400 5.6 (my big lens - small by the standards of most here) with the 1.4X and/or 2x extenders using live view for more cooperative targets like grazing deer, nesting eagles, osprey on a branch, etc. My ballhead just doesn't support this lineup that well while focusing in live view.
I was about to make the same question earlier, i.e. whether the original J-shape design is an original Wimberley innovation. I was also going to make the assumption that similar designs have probably existed before, and indeed, you've found out that earlier telescope mounts share the design.
FWIW, I wouldn't be too concerned about the question of infringement in this case, and I'd actually venture so far as to say that the biggest concern is the fact that Wimberley is mentioned in the marketing material for the BK-45. Furthermore, I'm also quite certain that the majority of people looking to buy this product are well aware that it is obviously not a Wimberley.
Although I can understand the concern expressed in this thread, such designs have existed before and it is obvious that the BK-45 is not a clone of said Wimberley due to differences in measurements, brand name and external features. I doubt that a lawsuit would hold, as one would only need to produce a shot of an old telescope gimbal to prove that the design is not original. ...Show more →
I am okay with my order. For now, I'm done with any more major discussions of the moralities/legalities. I think that horse died around midnight last night (my time - Central US TZ) and was continually beaten until well into the morning.
I am looking forward to making good use of the mount with my current equipment.
Thanks
I dig mine! Works great! Beats the crap out of a ballhead for most things. I guess it'd be a little heavy when wanting to travel light but other than that...
Apr 22, 2012 at 10:55 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
wfektar wrote:
I think there are 2 separate issues here. It may well be that A-S like it when other brands use their standard. Certainly it promotes their name. But it doesn't follow that it's an open standard. Even if they don't license it for money you'd think they'd at least ask that others formally acknowledge the attribution. But it's hard to tell what Arca think by their actions: they seem to be the type of company that's extremely good at what they're good at (specialty cameras, tripod heads) and kind of ridiculous at what they're not (website ...) Perhaps legal action is one of those things they're not good at. Or perhaps they're quite happy with the status quo. Or they can't be bothered one way or another.
That's all true but they're all still recognizably Arca. They even say so. ...Show more →
I don't think you really get it First why should they ask others to formally acknowledge the attribution ?
And it's not about "it promotes their name"
If no other companies and people made and used Arca-Swiss style clamps/plates. Arca-Swiss would nearly not sell any ballheads (compared to what they sell today)
My son shoots DSLR video for a living and periodically he has asked me to shoot an event, like a school play, as a second, usually from the back. With the 7D and 70-200 2.8 lens on the ball head, it is a little tough to keep it level when panning or changing views, so I'm also expecting this gimbal head to help a lot with this.
Thanks
Apr 23, 2012 at 01:24 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Sjjindra wrote:
My son shoots DSLR video for a living and periodically he has asked me to shoot an event, like a school play, as a second, usually from the back. With the 7D and 70-200 2.8 lens on the ball head, it is a little tough to keep it level when panning or changing views, so I'm also expecting this gimbal head to help a lot with this.
Thanks
A full gimbal head is an overkill for a 70-200 lens (IMO)
Lars Johnsson wrote:
A full gimbal head is an overkill for a 70-200 lens (IMO)
Lars
It may prove to be so. My primary intended setup will be outdoor with the 400mm 5.6 lens and 1.4X or 2X entender with liveview focusing. Shooting video with the 70-200 is only a secondary usage, keepng things more orthagonal when panning. I also have a few telescopes I may try out with it.
Lars Johnsson wrote:
A full gimbal head is an overkill for a 70-200 lens (IMO)
Probably true in most situations. OTOH, I just has a ball the other day using it with my Nikkor 105/2.8g ED doing panoramas. And the little messing about I've done already with it shooting video is VERY promising! Even with the 28mm lens.
Apr 23, 2012 at 04:23 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Lars Johnsson wrote:
I don't think you really get it First why should they ask others to formally acknowledge the attribution ?
It's their design.
If no other companies and people made and used Arca-Swiss style clamps/plates. Arca-Swiss would nearly not sell any ballheads (compared to what they sell today)
True. But a separate issue.
Apr 23, 2012 at 07:42 PM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Yes it's their standard (design). But they don't like to ask. Or they don't like to have any formally acknowledge their attribution. Should they then do it because you like that?
It's a standard for quick-release systems that Arca-Swiss did. It's not a design that the others copy and make exactly the same.
And they actually get it with some of the other brands also. I know that RRS have a whole chapter on their website where they write about Arca-Swiss and that they developed a standard for a quick-release system. And I'm sure you can find similar stuff on other brands websites also
The Arco-Swiss standard for photo dovetail bars sounds a lot like the Vixen (approx 1-1/2") and the Losmandy "D" (3") dovetail bars for telescopes. They are the industry standard sizes produced by most manufactures these days. I wish more products would stanardize (as in a DSLR lens mount standard). It would make it a lot easier for us consumers to mix and match.
Thanks
Yeah, and if you wanna get all technical I bet we can find this mechanism back a thousand or two years. I've seen it in very early automobiles (before Ford existed) and it's one of the standard cuts in wood-working as well as precision stone cutting - both of which go back to the beginnings of recorded history. You would be utterly amazed at some of the stuff the greeks were doing back then. We cannot today with all our lasers and robotics match some of their work in terms of precision and etc.
I actually dunno if that's a consideration or not tho. I mean just because a sliding lockable joint has existed for two thousand years and probably more like four, does that mean the guy who designed a camera specific mount system can't patent his device? Maybe huh? I dunno...
Bifurcator wrote:
I actually dunno if that's a consideration or not tho. I mean just because a sliding lockable joint has existed for two thousand years and probably more like four, does that mean the guy who designed a camera specific mount system can't patent his device? Maybe huh? I dunno...
hte triumph of Chinese and Japanese carpentry and furniture building is the use of dovetails and "keys" to assemble buildings, chairs and cabinets without adhesives that withstand earthquakes and other abuse and that can be disassembled and stored. google "Chinese domestic furniture" orJapanese teahouse carpentry" there are a few 8th century buildings around that require perodic maintainance.
I'm not sure if we still are in a position to do anything about Chinese patent infringement .
Most western countries' economy depends on cheap eastern labour, and cheap knock-offs; it could be argued that the US might be the first to go down if stricter laws were applied, with their unique consumption habits and poorly payed workforce .
Tomser wrote:
I'm not sure if we still are in a position to do anything about Chinese patent infringement .
We are in a position to do something about it. And we are doing many things very purposefully and with directed intention. It's only us simple folk who remain confused by the fact that all of those intensions, all of our laws, treaties, tariffs and agreements are actually in support of the Chinese welfare and the Chinese ethic. I could go on and about globalism, NAFTA, GATT, and name all the globalist elites who pull most of the strings in D.C. and the banking community but I wonder if it might suffice just to use General Motors as an example? They were literally and foreknowingly paid with tax-payer money to pick it all up and move it to China. And so it is with the current state of the union. If we wanna change it we hafta clean up Washington and the international banking community. Good luck to us! Ha! And the first step in doing any of that is educating a public so DISinformed, so uneducated and dumbed down almost no one can even agree what the problem is.
Until that's taken care of there won't be any meaningful policies nor applications of existing law in redress to the flood of Chinese knock-off goods the US (and I guess the UK too) are being buried under.
First why should they ask others to formally acknowledge the attribution ?