I have occasionally mentioned my struggle to get a NEX-7 grip prototype made. Well, here it is and the word prototype has taken on a new meaning for me. Synonyms of prototype would be, one of several revisions, waiting, function is a moving target, waiting, and lastly dollars. Anyway, after all that time and dollars, I have the next iteration that hopefully will see a production run soon.
This is what I came up with: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5464/7075069211_06cfa26eea_z.jpg
The one piece machined aluminum grip weighs 80 grams, bringing the camera/grip combination to a total of 435 grams, or about the same weight and height of the X-Pro1, or 75% of the M9 weight and the same height. The grip also acts as a ballast in hand held operation allowing more stable slower shutter speeds. The NEX cameras are very thin and the tripod hole is not supported well, and could allow flexing on a tripod 1/4-20 stud. The grip provides additional contact area to the bottom of the camera for a more secure hold. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5231/7075069051_b158b19ea0_z.jpg
This prototype has a hollow grip extension, to allow access to the battery/SD door, without the need to unscrew the grip. It uses an Arca Swiss compatible dovetail positioned more forward to balance the front heavy camera lens combination. A 1/4-20 threaded hole allows tripod use when a Arca Swiss clamp is not available. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5462/7075069409_c397428e3f_z.jpg
A cutout provides full downward tilt of the LCD. I've tried to think of all the "gotchas" that could pop up in the design, and have solved most, I think.
Right away, there is a more secure feeling, holding the camera and I don't have to shift the position of my right palm when operating the controls with thumb and index finger.
Sweet! How is it shooting handheld when the lens is resting in your hand? I hold the Nex with my ring finger pressing on the lens mount ring that sticks out of the camera and my middle finger on the back of the lens while my index finger and thumb focus. Though I suppose that might change a bit with more support from my right hand on the extended grip. Very cool. Price?
Edit: One other question, the area cut out where you bolt the plate to the camera, any chance something like this would fit in there?
Wow. Very nice! The only possible concern I might have is if the bottom rear right edge digs into the palm of the right hand when the camera is being held (that's actually the area I mentioned might need to be contoured inwards earlier. The design I see here makes that area appear to actually jet further out). This is one negative thing I noticed with the X-Pro1 after using it a while with it's accessory grip.
You've clearly been thinking this out very carefully. The cutout and Arca-compatible base plate are key features, and it looks like the grip will feel like part of the camera in use. Great work!
If you're still taking comments, I would agree that more contouring (of both left and right sides) might be nice, to improve the feel -- the edges look like they might be a bit uncomfortable.
The possibility of a right-angle attachment (essentially a removable L-bracket extension, like RRS now does with their D7000 plate) would be nice, too, though that may be adding more complexity than you want to deal with. Part of what's so nice about your design is that it doesn't look like an attachment -- it looks like an extension of the camera itself. Extra bits hanging off it might compromise that.
Great work -- and kudos for your initiative. Please do let us know when you go into production.
Looks good, awesome work man, hope it becomes a hot seller for you.
The only issues I see for me are the sharp corners, and the fact I only have Manfrotto style QR systems.
I don't know if you need another attachment point for portrait because these small cameras are so light plus it puts the shutter release a long way away from the mount point.
joychris wrote:
How is it shooting handheld when the lens is resting in your hand?
One other question, the area cut out where you bolt the plate to the camera, any chance something like this would fit in there?
I tried holding the lens with my left hand as you suggest, but I guess that works better for using the LCD? I think one of the main benefits of an extended hand grip like this, is the better control when the camera is at eye level with the EVF. With the increased control options of the camera, like zoomed focus assist in any corner, positioning the hand better allows better button access without moving the eye away from the EVF.
The 1/4-20 threads on the bottom of the grip should accommodate the screw-in D-ring, since it is a flat surface.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
. . . if the bottom rear right edge digs into the palm of the right hand when the camera is being held . . .
Very astute observation, and in fact this is the aded value over a simple dovetail plate, as the challenge is to provide clearance for the battery door, clearance for the tilted LCD, and a comforable grip extension. In some areas, the grip may be larger than the camera grip, in order to have the clearance for the battery door. A production run will use a special bit with a large radius to contour the top and bottom edge thin and the middle thicker, for a more rounded shape. I remember back in the film camera days, there was a camera that had a 1.5" or so ball that screwed into the bottom right of the camera, that rested in the palm of the hand. I thought it was Olympus but can't find a photo of it.
Smiert Spionam wrote:
If you're still taking comments,
The possibility of a right-angle attachment . . . like RRS . . .
I appreciate all comments. Thank you.
A right angle L plate is still an option, but I was thinking of removing that bottom left corner with a radius for a more rounded and simple design. I personally use a ball head for vertical shots. If the application is stitched panoramas, a simple L plate won't give a correct nodal point, especially on a NEX camera, being so thin. Here is a simple L bracket that allows adjustment for a lens nodal point and it could be fitted with a dovetail and clamp. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7260/6930690104_4d8d7f693f_n.jpg LightShow wrote:
You should engrave a logo on the front or back.
Thought of that. I was thinking of a milled out circle about .010" deep for the decal of my choice.
A smoothly radiused bottom left corner would handle really nicely -- sounds like a good way to go.
An L-bracket is handy when you need it (and not just for stitching), but it always involves compromises. Any L-bracket will feel like you've got uncomfortable hardware hanging off your camera -- because you do. The RRS removable L is a nice development, but it means a much more complicated design with potentially weak anchor points. A fixed L is obviously sturdier, but means higher materials cost, and you can never leave the L behind. If the emphasis here is on a great handheld feel, it makes sense to optimize your design for that.
I've gotten pretty tired of L-brackets, anyway. I think I'm going to pick up a Kirk universal bracket, which is essentially an L with an integrated clamp. It's obviously bulkier than a camera-mounted bracket, but you can just keep it with your tripod, and attach it when you need it. That way, your camera plate/grip can be optimized for comfort.
Jim,
How does this grip work with lens adapters that have a built-in tripod mount (like the Fotodiox adapters)?
Is your grip taller than the height of the tripod mount pedestal on these adapters?
Looks good, if I had a NEX7, I'd definitely try it out.
Suggestion for improvement: How about a small rectangular hole cut out on the bottom right side to allow for attaching a hand strap to the camera, like the Sony STP-GB1AM.
gatorine wrote:
Jim,
How does this grip work with lens adapters that have a built-in tripod mount (like the Fotodiox adapters)?
Is your grip taller than the height of the tripod mount pedestal on these adapters?
That''s an interesting question. In case it's helpful, I have a Fotodiox FD adapter with a tripod mount (not the "pro" version). The tripod foot extends about 10mm below the base of the camera. At its base, it also extends back a tiny bit past the chrome lens mount -- maybe 1mm or so.
I'm not sure how consistent these are across different adapters -- I would imagine there's a fair amount of standardization, but probably also plenty of variation. Perhaps that's useful info, though.
Jim, if you want pics, let me know.
In looking at Jim's photographs more closely, it looks like the tripod foot on the adapter would interfere with the sloped front of the Arca platform of the grip. The only way I see getting around this would be to mill that slope more flat, so the tripod foot could slip in above it (would still have to have 10mm or more of free clearance). I would imagine that that would take away too much material necessary for the 1/4-20 tripod mount in the grip, though.
I think this is largely a non-issue, though. Especially with Jim's design that shifts the Arca platform as far forward as possible for balance, I don't see a whole lot of advantage to using the tripod foot, anyway. The small, circular platform of the Fotodiox foot is prone to twisting unless you really torque it down on a plate, and I'd much rather have a more positive connection with the twist-proof grip.
The only circumstance in which I could see wanting to use an adapter with a foot is in using a heavy lens that doesn't have a tripod collar of its own, and you're concerned either about balance or strain on the body mount. How many of these are there? I use a 150/2.8 and occasionally a 300/4 with the NEX-7, but those have collars, as do most lenses of their size. A Nikon 180/2.8 is about as big of a current lens as I can think of that doesn't -- and I don't think I'd be too worried about it.
With bigger oddball alt lenses (old 300s, etc.), the slight bit of extra balance you get from using an adapter with a tripod mount wouldn't really help much, anyway. In that case, you're probably going to have to get a bit more creative, by adding a basic rail, or maybe using a rail/clamp combo like the RRS MPR-CL, and slipping a cork or something under the barrel of the lens to add extra support (something I've done before with a DSLR). For the limited number of such cases, it's really up to the user to be creative -- and those are people willing and capable of either working with/around the grip, or removing it.
Jim, this might be a good project for Kickstarter -- could be a way to get some committed buyers, to help cushion the development costs. I've never used it, but know several people who have done so happily.
Hi Jim, Cool new toy! I'm not sure why such a thing was difficult or expensive to prototype. It looks totally printable on one of those material composite "printers" and certainly cheap to prototype (a few hundred maybe?).
Anyway, I started typing here with the intent to offer up yet another Sony dig. Hehe, ya know it's bad when users have to make stuff like this to overcome the shortcomings of the original (poor) design.
Looks like you did a good job at that! I think I would want rounder corners though.
Smiert Spionam wrote:
Jim, this might be a good project for Kickstarter -- could be a way to get some committed buyers, to help cushion the development costs. I've never used it, but know several people who have done so happily.
I second that idea, and I would back it right away!
I am currently doing a redesign of the grip. Notable is a more rounded slightly larger grip extension.
gatorine wrote:
How does this grip work with lens adapters that have a built-in tripod mount (like the Fotodiox adapters)?
Is your grip taller than the height of the tripod mount pedestal on these adapters?
Smiert Spionam wrote:
The only circumstance in which I could see wanting to use an adapter with a foot is in using a heavy lens that doesn't have a tripod collar of its own, and you're concerned either about balance or strain on the body mount.
I originally had the dovetail forward and the front end extended past the camera mount face, thinking that the grip could be removed if a tripod mount/SLR adapter or the LA-EA1/2 is used, but keeping to the design goal of not needing to remove it in most cases, I'm planning to move the dovetail back to allow clearance for other adapters at the mount face plane. At least, the adapter will attach to the camera w/grip. Solutions with some adapters/tripod mount may need to be worked out, however.
briantho wrote:
Suggestion for improvement: How about a small rectangular hole cut out on the bottom right side to allow for attaching a hand strap to the camera, like the Sony STP-GB1AM.
I thought about this and will include it, but even with a grip extension, the NEX camera is so short it would be difficult to get one's hand thru the strap, and not affect control of the buttons. An anchored wrist loop would certainly be a good option.
Thanks again, for all the comments. I see mostly soft goods on kickstarter. Maybe after I get the design down and a shop lined up for production, that could be an option.
