I purchased a 5DMKII and 135 F2L in December and have been discouraged by the number of OOF images I have taken. Thinking it was the lens, I returned it and the second copy produced the same results. I posted some of my images at FM and the response from several of you were in fact that they were out of focus and took the advice to micro adjust the lens. After shooting a focus target and adding +14 in camera, the target was in focus at its center point. Took some pics of my daughter that day and produced the same OOF results. I called Canon and they had me upload the raw files to an FTP site where they reviewed them and I received a call from a rep later in the day. They claim that shooting in AI Servo was the issue. After reading the manual, I thought it would be a given to shoot ever moving children in AI Servo, but they claim otherwise. I have been using back button focus to track my daughter and the shutter button to take the picture. They advise I use One Shot, which I did this afternoon and the results of still subjects was actually better. Its tough to track moving objects, like kids in One Shot. How do you shoot moving subjects like children and ensure sharp results?
I greatly prefer one shot for candids and, if they're running and jumping about, I shoot fast, prefocus or anticipate. If there's enough light, I like to use a wide prime, stopped down and set to hyperfocal. Thus I can bang away without hardly missing a shot. Shooting a 135L is a tough spec as you need to nail focus and have almost no DOF to play with.
I've only found AI servo truly useful for outdoor subjects rapidly moving towards or away from me, e.g., motorcycles, runners and surfers.
ryanhart72 wrote:
After reading the manual, I thought it would be a given to shoot ever moving children in AI Servo, but they claim otherwise.
I would phone Canon again and ask to speak to a supervisor. Then ask him why some moron would give such advice.
My manual for the 7D states: AI Servo AF for Moving Subject: This AF mode is for moving subjects when the focusing distance keeps changing. While you hold down the shutter button halfway, the subject will be focused continuously.
I'm pretty sure that applies to AI Servo on all their bodies.
AI Servo is best for a predictably moving subject where the camera can track the motion of a subject, and anticipate where it will be by the time the shutter is fired. If the subject is not moving in a predictable fashion, AI servo isn't the best choice.
One shot is quite useful for candid shots. It gives you a focus confirmation, and with proper technique, it's very fast. The advice given by Canon sounds solid to me.
Imagemaster wrote:
I would phone Canon again and ask to speak to a supervisor. Then ask him why some moron would give such advice.
Which f stop are you shooting at and how far are you from the subject?
Also, the 5DMrkII was the last camera build by canon with the 'old' AF system. There is a spectacular difference between the 5DMrkII and the 7D AF.
I used to own 2x 5DMrkII for over 3 years and getting a moving subject in perfect focus at a wide aperture had more to do with luck than anything else.
Most of the shots this weekend were wide open at f2. I took a handful at 5.6 for comparison after the micro adjustment. They were slightly better, but still soft. Sounds like I should try one shot for my next couple shoots and compare the results. Will shoot this weekend on a fishing trip and see what i get. Canon did offer to calibrate my camera which I will probably do. According to the rep, the net result will be reducing the micro adjustment to my lens.
Ben Horne wrote:
AI Servo is best for a predictably moving subject where the camera can track the motion of a subject, and anticipate where it will be by the time the shutter is fired. If the subject is not moving in a predictable fashion, AI servo isn't the best choice.
Are you saying the majority of Sports Photographers do not use AI Servo when shooting rugby, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc.?
My apologies if this is something you are already aware of but in the 5DII in AI Servo there are six assist focus points that surround the centre AF point. They are not visible in the viewfinder and are only available in AI Servo. (Page 80 in the manual refers). They can be turned on or off using custom function C.Fn III-7. I am not sure if they are enabled by default but I suspect not as Disable is the zero selection and 1 is Enable.
If they are disabled on your camera you may find that turning them on may help your results. I have a 5D II and a 7D and do a lot of birds and I think that AI Servo, centre point, in the 5DII is actually pretty good, maybe not up to the 7D but still actually pretty capable. I think it is the best feature in an otherwise pretty basic AF system.
That said, as others have mentioned, at F/2 at 135mm, if you are anywhere close to your subject the DOF is going to be pretty skinny.
I don't think that using One Shot AF with a moving subject and shallow DOF is the way to go, the assist points are not active and as it says in the manual, in One Shot, the camera only focuses once.
I have my 5DIII set up so that I can hold down the DOF Preview Button to switch from AI Servo to One Shot mode, then press the AF ON button to focus a single photo in One Shot mode. As soon as I take a portrait of my kid sitting still or posing for me, I release the DOF Preview button and it switches back to AI Servo so I can take shots of her running around the house or outside. If I set One Shot as my primary AF mode, then the DOF Preview button will switch the camera to AI Servo temporarily.
RazorTM wrote:
I have my 5DIII set up so that I can hold down the DOF Preview Button to switch from AI Servo to One Shot mode, then press the AF ON button to focus a single photo in One Shot mode. As soon as I take a portrait of my kid sitting still or posing for me, I release the DOF Preview button and it switches back to AI Servo so I can take shots of her running around the house or outside. If I set One Shot as my primary AF mode, then the DOF Preview button will switch the camera to AI Servo temporarily....Show more →
good for hand holding small lens. not if the lens is one of the large whites unless on a tripod
Shooting an f/2 lens at f/2 is not the right thing for action photography, such as kids. f/2 on a telephoto on a full-frame is a recipe for razor thin depth of field. It just doesn't make sense visually (compositionally) or photographically. [Yes there will be rare exceptions, but they are best done as staged shots with subjects "hitting their marks".]
Practice with your equipment to master it.
The advice to move focus to the back buttons is good.
Similarly the advice about presets. Many of the best shots are obtained in many situations, including action, when settings are pre-set and the action is stalked or allowed to come to the camera. Instead of trying to get every possible shot, or every possible good shot, try to make great shots out of a smaller number of good possibilities.
ryanhart72 wrote:
They claim that shooting in AI Servo was the issue. After reading the manual, I thought it would be a given to shoot ever moving children in AI Servo, but they claim otherwise. I have been using back button focus to track my daughter and the shutter button to take the picture. They advise I use One Shot, which I did this afternoon and the results of still subjects was actually better. Its tough to track moving objects, like kids in One Shot. How do you shoot moving subjects like children and ensure sharp results?
Only a photographic putz would suggest that one shot AF should be used for non-stationary targets.
Now, the aperture setting will have an effect on your keeper rate, i.e., a number of properly focused images.
If you want to shoot with shallow DOF for subject isolation etc., the penalty will always be in a diminished keeper rate, whether you are shooting in one shot AF, or servo AF, or manual focus.
I will start off and say that I am going to assume based on the rest of the conversation that the Thread Title is wrong and we are not talking about AI Focus mode. (If we are then there is your problem, that mode is useless IMHO).
Assuming we are talking about AI Servo, then I agree with the others that that Canon person was wrong. However, I would also agree that shooting at f/2 is always going to be tricky with moving subjects especially on the 5D2. I would try turning on the AF assist points in the CF for AI Servo and setting up back button AF if you don't already.
I usually only shoot in Servo and use the backbutton (I actually use the * over the AF-on) as either single push for one shot (or a close replica of one shot) and then hold the button for servo action.
My question is if anyone knows or has read anything saying that using AI Servo in pseudo one-shot mode as I described is as good as actually using the real one shot mode. I would think that if you set the CFs to prioritize focus over drive speed then it should be close. I can't remember if the 5D2 has that option or if that is just in the 7D and 5D3? If the 5D2 has that sort of setting then making sure it is prioritizing focus may help also.
RazorTM wrote:
Why not? The weight of the lens is in the left hand and the DOF Preview and AF-ON buttons can both be operated simultaneously with the right hand.
Not on a 5D2. They can on a 5D3 though.
RazorTM wrote:
And besides, you can't remap the DOF Preview on the 5DII anyways....
But that is what I was getting at. On the 5D2 which the OP has, the DOF is on the left so you can't easily operate it while holding your longer lens. The 5D3 really made this button in a better place but the OP has 5D2.
RazorTM wrote:
Why not? The weight of the lens is in the left hand and the DOF Preview and AF-ON buttons can both be operated simultaneously with the right hand.
Yup, I am glad they moved the DOF preview button to the right of the lens for this purpose/feature. It took a while to get used to that but it works just fine afterwards. Another method would be to use AI Servo all the time and use the AF back button for focusing. You touch and release the AF button for focusing or you keep the AF back button depressed for capturing moving a moving target. To be frank, I didn't dare to use this method using my 5D Mark II all the time and evaluate the situation individually. That's what the OP could use but he has to limit that to the center AF point only for a better keeper rate. Well, the 5D Mark II doesn't have the feature to remap the DOF preview button anyway. With the 5D Mark III, on the other hand, I feel very confident using either method.
I use shutter button focus. I want to try back button but I never remember to set it until I'm right before an important gig and I don't want to mess up.
Secondly, I shoot my cameras in servo most of the time, since I shoot
A lot of moving subjects. Portraits i am in 1-shot. Moving I am in servo. I feel the advice
Given by canon is poor in this case. Yes, moving people can be shot in one shot, but it's not the best tool for the job.
Lastly, the canon 135 is an amazing lens. Fast focus and accurate. However, it is also a son of a gun to use wide open, on full frame, at any "close" distance. The depth of field is shallow. Very shallow. Your kid moves, you're hosed. Stop that lens down to f/2.8 to
Gain a little wiggle room. It won't be much, it won't kill your bokeh, and it'll increase your keeper rate. If you practice with a stationary subject and shoot it f/2 will give fantastic results.
