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Archive 2012Leica help please
p.1 #1Leica help please
Hello,
I want to give the Leica experience a try. My initial thought is in an effort to keep cost down and to avoid taking a big hit is to purchase some nice used gear here on FM. I'm leaning towards a used M8 or M8.2 with a used 50 1.4. This will give me the viewfinder expericence at a resonable entry point and the 50mm on the crop sensor will get me a focal length I'm comfortable with.
So my questions are:
1) Does the M8 deliver a comparable IQ to the M9 at low ISO. I won't be printing big or doing heavy cropping. In terms of color, etc..
2) Will a Zeiss 50mm f2 deliver similar IQ to the Leica 50 1.4 other than the obious it's F2.
3) Anything I should be wary of on the M8.2 model?
I understand the viewfinder experience takes practice and patience to learn. Thank you.
Jack
I want to give the Leica experience a try. My initial thought is in an effort to keep cost down and to avoid taking a big hit is to purchase some nice used gear here on FM. I'm leaning towards a used M8 or M8.2 with a used 50 1.4. This will give me the viewfinder expericence at a resonable entry point and the 50mm on the crop sensor will get me a focal length I'm comfortable with.
So my questions are:
1) Does the M8 deliver a comparable IQ to the M9 at low ISO. I won't be printing big or doing heavy cropping. In terms of color, etc..
2) Will a Zeiss 50mm f2 deliver similar IQ to the Leica 50 1.4 other than the obious it's F2.
3) Anything I should be wary of on the M8.2 model?
I understand the viewfinder experience takes practice and patience to learn. Thank you.
Jack
Apr 09, 2012 at 06:04 PM
p.1 #2Leica help please
Jack, first of all I want to make sure you know the M8/M8.2 is a 1.33x crop camera. Also, because of the very weak IR filter every lens 35mm and under needs a UV/IR filter on. That being said, IQ in my opinion is quite comparable at lower ISOs. The color will depend on filter usage as mentioned above. The M8 is still a very fine camera.
You say a 50 f/1.4, which one? I'm assuming you are talking Leica glass, in that case there are three versions. The latest version, 46mm ASPH lens is probably the best 50 made in any format. It's obviously a different optical formula than the prior models. The formula that came prior to the ASPH is a very classic rendering. Coming from great Nikon & Zeiss glass you will probably not be happy with this rendering. It is a very soft rendering with aberrations galore. Even stopped down, it is nowhere near the detail of the latest ASPH. The oldest formula is a very rare lens, which optically is inferior to the rest.
The Zeiss Planar is a great lens, and a hell of a bargain for $700 or so. It is sharp center wide open with great bokeh. Stopped down it is very sharp. The Zeiss at f/2 though doesn't come close to the 50 Lux ASPH. The Lux is such a beautiful and unique rendering even stopped down. The Zeiss will have a different look.
The M8.2 i would definitely recommend over the M8. The frame lines were adjusted to be a little more accurate and the camera as a whole feels a hell of a lot nicer. They did quiet the shutter a bit, but at the expense of the 1/8000 shutter.
You say a 50 f/1.4, which one? I'm assuming you are talking Leica glass, in that case there are three versions. The latest version, 46mm ASPH lens is probably the best 50 made in any format. It's obviously a different optical formula than the prior models. The formula that came prior to the ASPH is a very classic rendering. Coming from great Nikon & Zeiss glass you will probably not be happy with this rendering. It is a very soft rendering with aberrations galore. Even stopped down, it is nowhere near the detail of the latest ASPH. The oldest formula is a very rare lens, which optically is inferior to the rest.
The Zeiss Planar is a great lens, and a hell of a bargain for $700 or so. It is sharp center wide open with great bokeh. Stopped down it is very sharp. The Zeiss at f/2 though doesn't come close to the 50 Lux ASPH. The Lux is such a beautiful and unique rendering even stopped down. The Zeiss will have a different look.
The M8.2 i would definitely recommend over the M8. The frame lines were adjusted to be a little more accurate and the camera as a whole feels a hell of a lot nicer. They did quiet the shutter a bit, but at the expense of the 1/8000 shutter.
Apr 09, 2012 at 07:09 PM
p.1 #3Leica help please
Hi Ryan,
Thank you for the info. I do understand that the Leica M8.2 is a crop sensor and I did read several reviews regarding the IR filter. However, based on your response are you saying that if the lens is a 50mm no need for the filter? I'm thinkng M8.2 but with the number of M9's for sale on the buy/sell they are tempting as well. I know Leica has an announcement set for 5/10 so not sure what impact if any that will have on the used prices.
Jack
Thank you for the info. I do understand that the Leica M8.2 is a crop sensor and I did read several reviews regarding the IR filter. However, based on your response are you saying that if the lens is a 50mm no need for the filter? I'm thinkng M8.2 but with the number of M9's for sale on the buy/sell they are tempting as well. I know Leica has an announcement set for 5/10 so not sure what impact if any that will have on the used prices.
Jack
Apr 09, 2012 at 07:14 PM
p.1 #4Leica help please
I would trade my ZM planar for a pre-ASPH Lux v2 literally any day of the week.
is it technically perfect? no.
have you considered an M6 and a 50 lux pre-asph?
is it technically perfect? no.
have you considered an M6 and a 50 lux pre-asph?
Apr 09, 2012 at 07:35 PM
p.1 #5Leica help please
I have the M8 and use the IR filters on anything 35mm or wider. In fact, I used the 35mm for almost 6 months without the filter and all was fine. To be safe though, I would recommed using them. You can almost always find them for sale on B&S boards - especially GetDPI. If you have not tried a RF before, I would suggest you give the M8 a whirl first before springing for the M9. Best of luck!
Apr 09, 2012 at 07:36 PM
p.1 #6Leica help please
Correct, 50mm does not need filters. The M9 is about $2000 more than an M8.2 right now. The announcement is anybody's guess, but sounds like just a B/W digital M. I doubt that would move the price of an M9 much at all. If it is more than just a B/W digital then prices will move, but I doubt much. Leica isn't going to release a new camera below $7,000 and the M9 is already down to about $5,000 on the used market
Apr 09, 2012 at 07:42 PM
p.1 #7Leica help please
allstarimaging wrote:
However, based on your response are you saying that if the lens is a 50mm no need for the filter?
I believe it's the 6-bit coding that's not deemed critical for 50mm and longer lenses. The IR filter will make a difference with any focal length.
However, based on your response are you saying that if the lens is a 50mm no need for the filter?
I believe it's the 6-bit coding that's not deemed critical for 50mm and longer lenses. The IR filter will make a difference with any focal length.
Apr 09, 2012 at 08:17 PM
p.1 #8Leica help please
All lenses need the filters!!! It is the coding which is not necessary, as Doug pointed out. I bought the original M8 with a 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH, and there was magenta everywhere.
Apr 10, 2012 at 12:58 AM
p.1 #9Leica help please
Oops, yeah I had it backwards. I think coding is more critical on the 35mm and under where the filters are needed for all. It's been a while
Apr 10, 2012 at 04:33 AM
p.1 #10Leica help please
Can you guys clarify coding? Also, I assume from what I have read on reviews the "filter issue" does not exist on the M9. Thank you
Jack
Jack
Apr 10, 2012 at 05:30 AM
p.1 #11Leica help please
On the rear of the lenses, there are sometimes a 6-bit code, which consists of a series of 6 black or white dots milled into the mount. There is a list here: http://whimster-photography.com/leica_m_lens_codes/index.html
Leica does the coding for many recent Leica lenses, but it is expensive. It is also possible to do it yourself by using a template, and either drawing on the lens (which needs to be repeated regularly), or milling the holes and using paint.
The coding is necessary for the camera to know which lens is attached. Without this code, the camera cannot apply corner corrections, for example for vignetting, or for the colour shift introduced by the IR filter on wide angle lenses.
Leica does the coding for many recent Leica lenses, but it is expensive. It is also possible to do it yourself by using a template, and either drawing on the lens (which needs to be repeated regularly), or milling the holes and using paint.
The coding is necessary for the camera to know which lens is attached. Without this code, the camera cannot apply corner corrections, for example for vignetting, or for the colour shift introduced by the IR filter on wide angle lenses.
Apr 10, 2012 at 05:54 AM
p.1 #12Leica help please
I don't know about the need to use IR filters for ALL focal lengths. I thiink all the talk about it after the M8 was released went a little viral and overstated. My experience still shows that I see no benefit in using these filters for anything over 35mm. I must clarify thought that I have not used any Leica lenses greater than 35mm. Perhaps they are more sensitive to color shift.... It will also depend a lot on your shooting conditions. Jack - to answer you question, this filter issue is not applicable to the M9.
Apr 10, 2012 at 08:46 AM
p.1 #13Leica help please
Well, I am not sure what you have tried, but the IR sensitivity issue is not sensitive to the focal length, only to the light coming in. One of my black sweaters was pure purple with the 50 Lux ASPH, for example, and the 90 Cron ASPH was no better. Again, the coding isn't necessary above 35mm, but the filter is!
Apr 10, 2012 at 10:06 AM
p.1 #14Leica help please
If you don't like IR contamination, use a filter on any lens. Unfortunately, this will introduce cyan shift towards the corners on wide lenses.
So if anything, avoid filters on wide lenses if there is nothing in the scene that gives strong IR reflection (like black cloth).
The cyan shift can be cured either with coded lenses or by using Cornerfix, which works great since it takes the DNG files as they are.
So if anything, avoid filters on wide lenses if there is nothing in the scene that gives strong IR reflection (like black cloth).
The cyan shift can be cured either with coded lenses or by using Cornerfix, which works great since it takes the DNG files as they are.
Apr 10, 2012 at 10:28 AM
p.1 #15Leica help please
I think I will need to try the UV/IR filters on all my lenses and see if I notice any difference. Maybe I have do not have a sufficient sample size (or shooting conditions) to fairly comment....
Apr 10, 2012 at 10:44 AM
p.1 #16Leica help please
Take a picture of a piece of black clothing...that will tell you if you need an IR filter 
Apr 10, 2012 at 10:59 AM
p.1 #17Leica help please
Haha - will do. Problem is I almost never shoot anything close to black fabric.... Or I just suck it up and buy an M9! I need one, right?? 
Apr 10, 2012 at 11:21 AM
p.1 #18Leica help please
Buy one filter for the lens with the largest diameter and use it on all of them with step-up rings when you feel it's needed. They are quite expensive and perhaps you find that it isn't necessary all the time.
They are quite expensive and perhaps you find that it isn't necessary all the time.Apr 10, 2012 at 11:28 AM
p.1 #19Leica help please
Makten wrote:
If you don't like IR contamination, use a filter on any lens. Unfortunately, this will introduce cyan shift towards the corners on wide lenses.
So if anything, avoid filters on wide lenses if there is nothing in the scene that gives strong IR reflection (like black cloth).
The cyan shift can be cured either with coded lenses or by using Cornerfix, which works great since it takes the DNG files as they are.
Interesting thought wrt wide lenses. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder how my ZM21/4.5 performs w/o the UV/IR filter. On the M8 it sometimes benefits from the use of Cornerfix, but perhaps for landscape shots removing the filter might be a better idea.
If you don't like IR contamination, use a filter on any lens. Unfortunately, this will introduce cyan shift towards the corners on wide lenses.
So if anything, avoid filters on wide lenses if there is nothing in the scene that gives strong IR reflection (like black cloth).
The cyan shift can be cured either with coded lenses or by using Cornerfix, which works great since it takes the DNG files as they are.
Interesting thought wrt wide lenses. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder how my ZM21/4.5 performs w/o the UV/IR filter. On the M8 it sometimes benefits from the use of Cornerfix, but perhaps for landscape shots removing the filter might be a better idea.
Apr 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM
p.1 #20Leica help please
CVickery wrote:
Interesting thought wrt wide lenses. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder how my ZM21/4.5 performs w/o the UV/IR filter. On the M8 it sometimes benefits from the use of Cornerfix, but perhaps for landscape shots removing the filter might be a better idea.
If you hold the filter in your hand and look through it, you will actually see a strong cyan cast when the filter is tilted. Since wide lenses "see" more tilted angles, they will thus give more problems than long lenses. It's sort of the same problem as with having the exit pupil close to the sensor, but it this case we're at the other end of the optical system instead.
Many landscapes (most?) will probably do fine without a filter. I think I remember that I had the worst IR problems at dusk and dawn for some reason, with a slight purple cast on trees and other plants.
Interesting thought wrt wide lenses. I hadn't thought of that. I wonder how my ZM21/4.5 performs w/o the UV/IR filter. On the M8 it sometimes benefits from the use of Cornerfix, but perhaps for landscape shots removing the filter might be a better idea.
If you hold the filter in your hand and look through it, you will actually see a strong cyan cast when the filter is tilted. Since wide lenses "see" more tilted angles, they will thus give more problems than long lenses. It's sort of the same problem as with having the exit pupil close to the sensor, but it this case we're at the other end of the optical system instead.
Many landscapes (most?) will probably do fine without a filter. I think I remember that I had the worst IR problems at dusk and dawn for some reason, with a slight purple cast on trees and other plants.
Apr 10, 2012 at 11:36 AM