lols
Agreed! He uses his personality to get his clients to the right place to get photographs that can get them work.
I would reccomend this dvd. There is enough tech info to let us in on his personal set up, but the gold is in the way he tells the things you don't get from books. I've seen the other free videos too. He doesn't give away everything in the freebies.
For the inspiration and way watching the dvd completely opened up my head to this kind of photography, and ESPECIALLY the way to deal with clients, I reccomend it.
By "and Bingo was his Name-O" I meant as a non head shot photographer, it's natural you wouldn't appreciate it as much as someone who is getting into that line of work.
Sorry I missed this part:
I would reccomend someone seek out EVERY avenue of learning, in an effort to have any edge over the competition and get the job. From watching the video, I have had comments on my improvement as a portraitist, and I have more confidence when I photograph people too. I did landscape/fine art for 20 years, and have been photographing people for the last few years. Watching the video lead to a couple breakthroughs for me. The dvd is only one part of my "studies" though. I subscribe to Kelbytraining.com and watch Youtube videos all the time as well, and read read read.
$300 sounds steep, but you can get How To videos on lighting anywhere, or how to work a camera. The Hurley video gives info that you won't get except from experience.
I've been a professional bassist for 25 years. When I teach students I turn them on to ideas that they won't get from reading magazines or practicing scales. I tell them how to move an audience and support their bandmates in a way that will make the whole performance better, instead of rote technique, which isn't music anyway.
I see Peter's video as being like that.
His video is about conversating with your subject. I believe this information is available with any self help books on personality because *I* see the video as being about making your subject feel good....then you capture it. Bottom line to me, what he shared applies to nearly all constant client interaction service industry. You can be a hairstylist use the same "techniques". Obviously not taking their photo but they feel good about themselves throughout the process. Most portrait photography books talk about this same subject. Peter simply made a long video about the subject.
Don't get me wrong, I see how this can possibly be valuable, but I do not see $300 worth of value unless YOUR personality is more of an introvert. A person who is already pretty lively and chatty probably have the skills to communicate.
A couple years back I had an opportunity to attend a free lecture given by Norman Seeff, in which he openly discussed his entire headshot process that he used for shooting celebrities. For those that don't Seeff, you can google him or hit him at his site: http://www.normanseeff.com/
About a year ago, I attended a free lecture given by Martin Schoeller, http://martinschoeller.com/ , another headshot shooter. Martin shared his vision and process openly just like Norman Seeff did.
Hurley's not even at 5% of the substance that Seeff and Schoeller shared in their free lectures. Is $300 worth it? That's your call.
@visualist It's not the cost of the DVD that you're paying. And while it looks like a simple production as well, it's the value you're getting from a photographer who is known for his $1000 portrait settings.
Whether you like Peter's style or not, I think you're able to walk away with more knowledge on how to photograph people and make a genuine connection with your subjects.
I know that Peter gave a talk at Google so if you Google that (hehe), you'll come across his talk which from what I heard gives a lot of tips too on that for free.
jjasef wrote:
@visualist It's not the cost of the DVD that you're paying. And while it looks like a simple production as well, it's the value you're getting from a photographer who is known for his $1000 portrait settings.
Cheers.
To me this statement is a prefect example of the wonderful job the photography industry marketing machine has done in preparing consumers brains for sticker shock.
I come from a musical background (guitar). I can purchase instructional DVDs from MAJOR top level guitarists such as BB King, Robben Ford, Eric Johnson etc, etc....for around $30-$40 TOPS! And I'm talking 3 1/2 to 4 hour DVDs instructed by that artist personally himself...not the ones with some hack showing you how to play like him.
These $250 - $300 - $400 instructional DVDs in the photography world are mind boggling to me. I have seen the Hurley DVD and while it is very informative, I would of taken myself out into the alley and beaten the snot out of me for being silly enough to pay $300 for that information.
If the music industry can provide high quality instructional DVDs from major artists at $30 or less on average, what makes the photography industry so different that they feel the need to charge 10 times the price?
BB King himself instructing me on DVD is 10 times less valuable than Peter Hurley doing the same?
Headshotz wrote:
If the music industry can provide high quality instructional DVDs from major artists at $30 or less on average, what makes the photography industry so different that they feel the need to charge 10 times the price?
BB King himself instructing me on DVD is 10 times less valuable than Peter Hurley doing the same?
Silly.......
I don't know anything about the music industry complex. However, there are lots of photogs that ONLY make their living from teaching photography, that is teaching workshops and selling teaching DVDs. The real pros, such as Annie Leibovitz, Mert and Marcus, and Steven Meisel, have tons of work and never teach tho.
If the music industry can provide high quality instructional DVDs from major artists at $30 or less on average, what makes the photography industry so different that they feel the need to charge 10 times the price?
There are distributors of photography teaching material that's comparable to your $30/DVDs-direct-from-artist example. Do look at Scott Kelby's Kelby Training which for $25/mo, you have unlimited access to their material.
Peter Hurley's DVD is independent from that company or any other. While it is co-produced with F-Stoppers [who's probably getting a cut], they're basically independent so they get to control the price for whatever they please.
Yes, there will be disagreement for a $300 DVD and those people will refuse to buy it. However, others will see it justified and pay up quickly. If it has been selling for $300, why would they change it to anything lower?
@Visualist, have you ever paid for college? Same concept $$$ depending on where you attend. Is economics 101 different at Harvard than it is at your local community college? Probably not.
My guess is that within the music industry (or any other) you can also find $300 instructional videos too. As noted there are PLENTY of low cost and free resources for learning photography.
BTW, I agree with you for the most part No "theological" debate from me either.
I've never purchased a photographic educational product other than a few books before. I bought his DVD and learned a lot from it. He doesn't dwell on the technical because he is assumes that people who understand exposure already will be watching it. He shows you what he uses and how he uses it 1x - that's all you really need and what he does dwell on, client interaction, I found very interesting. I learned a few new tricks from him. Worth the money.
I have viewed it. It is good. It is NOT worth $300.00. After you buy his dvd you can now purchase his portable deal to throw on the floor to make it white for only $165.00, add $75.00 if you want the carrying case. He is good at what he does and one of those things is selling his product......I predict he will be the "Billy Mays" of the photography industry. Hopefully without the tragic ending.
cordellwillis wrote:
@Visualist, have you ever paid for college? Same concept $$$ depending on where you attend. Is economics 101 different at Harvard than it is at your local community college? Probably not.
My guess is that within the music industry (or any other) you can also find $300 instructional videos too. As noted there are PLENTY of low cost and free resources for learning photography.
BTW, I agree with you for the most part No "theological" debate from me either.
Why should i have paid for College?
But thanks for making my point, by continuing with theology while at the same time denying it.
I'm sorry, but it's simply not my fault, but if someone isn't able to getting their customers to relax infront of the camera, and get them what they need for their shot, there's nothing one can learn from any DVD, regardless of the price.
But by now i do understand Hurleys problem. He's a industry leader in NYC, i'm a nobody, a shooter of milk bottles and other crap in the middle of nowhere, and yet his hourly rate is not even doubble of what i charge. No wonder he's desperate.
But, in all seriousnes, this reminds with of some guy, his motto was "dare to be great", ... he started after ww2 as a salesman for sewingmachines, and went in the sixties to cosmetic thing like Avon or Tupperware, where you make money by hiring other salesppl instead of selling product, went to jail and after that, changed to motivational workshops. And got arrested again, as did my ex-father in law, who was part of the section in germany. ... if i just could remember the name
And now please twist this into me saying that Hurley is a criminal wich he is not, but i do have serious problems with ppl who tell you how to be successfull, while making a ton of money from it themself, when their own success comes from beeing at the right place at the right time and beeing a good salesman.
At the same time he's right. It's not about f-stops and techno-babble, but watchig a video will not help anybody overcoming their social inhibitions. In real live that's "simply" hard work.
Though i really don't remember, if it was one of those companies that made it to europe or something Turner cooked up later ... but 74ish should be right. While i do remember the TV-News about the raids, i was still a kid and met my ex like 10 years later ...
This is also pretty much where these self-motivational books and courses originate from, that you mentioned yourself somewhere above ...
And i should've kept the tapes, that came in a massive leather briefcase. They're absolutely hilarious! And yes, they were one Grand for a pack of three or four MCs.
Peter Hurley is extremely talented at two things. First, no question he is good at taking the headshot. He has a unique style that he has turned (for the moment) into the standard. Second, he is great at selling himself. What he knows is that he can't keep up the pace forever. Nor will he always be in style. So he is rolling with it as long as he can; making as much money as possible while the photography world is paying attention.
I enjoyed the video. I got a lot out of it. I tried for awhile to emulate it and I stopped. I am not Peter Hurley and neither is anyone else except Peter Hurley. You have to find your own style. It's worth watching but you might want to pick it up used. Personally I borrowed it from a friend, watched it, and gave it back. Free to me and legal. I have heard you can get it other ways but, that's not very nice.
No "theological" debate from me either.
when their own success comes from beeing at the right place at the right time and beeing a good salesman.