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Archive 2012 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012

  
 
AhamB
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p.11 #1 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


molson wrote:
It's going to be a real shame, having to take a hacksaw to that built-in lens hood to get access to the filter threads...


You have perfect access to the filter threads -- the hood doesn't get in the way. Have a look at the pictures of the lens with filter in the Ken Rockwell review.



Mar 17, 2012 at 12:26 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #2 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


'because I see very sharp corners.'

Because the lines are gentle downward slopes, not the 'off the cliff' fall of the 25/2.

It's a super wide with better distortion control than any of their other wide angle lenses, with a profile that belongs more with normal focal length lenses! And the onset is very gentle (convex), to a max at image corner of 1.8%...It's actually better than the 35/2 and is close to identical to the new 35/1.4...so 'brilliant' natural looking images that belie the AOV will result.

Wide open, the performance slides off gently across the frame - very important for 3D. At very high levels over more than half the frame, out to the APS-C corners.

MTF is 85/90/95 at image centre at f5.6 (using the p7 LC data, not, ahem, CZ's 25/2 chart)...see how the line pairs track each other out to 10mm IH...an already big deal for any longer lens - but one with this AOV? That is a lot of subject matter right there...of course wide angles need huge performance because of the amount of content they image with 'negative' magnification.

So summing up the MTF, better distortion than any recent CZ wide angle in this, their widest DSLR lens, very high micro-contrast at all apertures, gentle image height drop-off to create a sustained visual impression of sharpness, more than acceptable relative illumination profile, a filter thread...it is quite likely a game changer for this class of lens. I am guessing excellent CA control looking at the glass specs. Not bad weight, compared to other ZE/Fs, 130 grams more than the 21mm from memory. Well done by them.

This is the one to put on the D800E...



Mar 17, 2012 at 05:31 PM
tsdevine
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p.11 #3 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012



I don't think I'm going to be able to resist this....from the shots I've seen it's a dream come true.



Mar 17, 2012 at 06:17 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #4 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


Even the much maligned Lloyd's photos seem popular, ts - it's rare, believe me! It's actually aa standrd test measure of mine, if a lens can deliver workable images from a number of test photographers, lol.

Stubby and broad in dimensions, naturalistic rendering and 3D, excellent distant detail (bugbear of mine and a star feature of the 21mm), workable bokeh for street, 9 blade aperture, startling MTF and by the look of it, excellent colour. Should balance very nicely on a full frame DSLR, and a recess for the front element, plus hood protection. Jorge reckons the focus ring is less free than the 21mm, if so, that's a good thing also.

Even a generous filter ring - I figure CZ appreciate filters much more than most Alt members, and appreciate lens caps a lot less than Alt members, going on the provision they provide for the first, and the build quality/type they provide for the second. I actually really like them (their caps), but I am a minimalist that way, it's just a cap, they pop off sometimes, but are way better than the over-engineered squeeze type, just an opinion.

I do find the 21mm too long (don't laugh unless necessary) for tight work in the confines of Indian streets, crowds, scenes with detail in everything from top-bottom and side to side, intimate landscapes, and monastery architecture and interiors, plus near-far perspectives. Also, good enough performance for crops from tomorrow's high Mp cameras.

Too bad they did not price it at $4000 or made a filter-unfriendly cyclops eye like Nikon, then it would be beyond consideration...



Mar 18, 2012 at 02:11 AM
Z250SA
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p.11 #5 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


Ok, now to the Big Question! How can I stop myself from reading further into buying this lens


Mar 18, 2012 at 03:23 AM
carstenw
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p.11 #6 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


You can't read any further; this is the end of the thread


Mar 18, 2012 at 04:46 AM
tsdevine
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p.11 #7 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012



I do waterfall photography, and I need to be able to use filters. Preferable an ND along with a polarizer. My 16-35 II has been pretty much relegated to 16mm prime status. Meaning it only gets used if I can't get the shot with my 21. What is killing me is all the woodland shots of the stream that LC has in his review. The lighting is great, really the perfect conditions I look for when shooting. And the 15 appears to be the whole package...sharp, contrasty, low distortion, etc. Must stop looking.....



Mar 18, 2012 at 07:27 AM
mMontag
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p.11 #8 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


F16-22 with a 95mm polarizer in shady conditions may give you a second or two. Heliopan has a 95mm 2.0 ND - but plan on spending another $350 to use that lens.

Fabricating an ND holder by sacrificing the push-on lens cap may be an option - similar to the attached - that 110* FOV is going to show vignetting very quickly beyond the edge of the ring - probably going to need to go to a 5"+ ND and holder.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1081875

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828934-REG/Heliopan_709588_95mm_Neutral_Density_ND_.html



Mar 18, 2012 at 11:32 AM
RoySussex
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p.11 #9 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


OK, I'm going to take the risk of revealing my ignorance. Having read some of the erudite discussion in this thread I feel it may be the place to get an answer to a question I've raised in various places without receiving enlightenment. I think the question is relevant to the discussion of this particular lens.

I have the Nikon 14-24 which, bulbous front element, price and weight excepted, I am very very happy with. But it has long baffled me why Nikon are so secretive about the lens distortion correction in CNX2. There is obviously some automatic correction available (the auto lateral CA correction is fine) but I can't help noticing that the geometric correction is not fully mapped to the lens/FL/body/focal distance parameters in the way that DxO's software is. I have only used the latter in evaluation form however, so I have limited overall experience with it and can't justify buying it right now.

For the 14-24 lens DxO offer two modes of "volume anamorphosis correction". Which, IMHO is a bl00dy good idea. This particular form of distortion at or close to 14mm just bugs the hell out of me, even in landscape shots where the subject matter doesn't draw excessive attention to the stretching effect at the periphery. I don't and have never owned any other lenses wider than 20mm apart from Fisheyes so I have little to compare it with.

I suppose my question is whether this particular form of distortion is inherent in the design of rectilinear wide angle lenses - even $3k Zeiss examples? And whenever I've attempted to raise the question it always seems that no-one else is remotely troubled by this effect, which surprises me. There are clearly participants on this thread who are highly knowledgeable on the topic, so I would really appreciate clarification!

Roy



Mar 18, 2012 at 01:22 PM
sebboh
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p.11 #10 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


RoySussex wrote:
I suppose my question is whether this particular form of distortion is inherent in the design of rectilinear wide angle lenses - even $3k Zeiss examples?

Roy


yes, it is inherent in the design of rectilinear super wide angle lenses and i also find it super annoying. i'm sure if you go through enough of the sample shots you'll have no trouble seeing it.



Mar 18, 2012 at 01:46 PM
AhamB
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p.11 #11 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


@Roy: If you've seen the examples of the way volume anamorphosis correction changes the "rectilinearity", you'd know that it can't be universally applied. It can make ultra wide images look much more natural, but straight horizontal and vertical lines get curved. This can mess up shots of interiors and architecture and such.

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00UG0G?start=20
http://www.dxo.com/us/photo/dxo_optics_pro/features/optics_geometry_corrections/anamorphosis



Mar 18, 2012 at 03:04 PM
carstenw
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p.11 #12 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


Roy, the stretching towards the corners is actually correct, when the lens does it right. The problem arises from standing in a certain place in the real scene, and then viewing from a different (virtual) location when looking at the print (or monitor).

To see the photo in a correct way, you would need to get closer to the print (say...), until the angle of view between the corners of the print correspond to the angle of view of those places in real life.

The problem is that very wide lenses see the corners at a glancing angle in the real world, but you are trying to view the result from a much more perpendicular angle.

That doesn't really help anyone viewing such prints, since they will invariably do the same; I am just trying to point out that this is actually not distortion, just an effect caused by differing viewpoints.



Mar 18, 2012 at 03:41 PM
tsdevine
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p.11 #13 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012



Well, I normally shoot in the 1 to 3 second range and prefer not to stop down too much past f/11. I have the Lee holder...and even if I could rig something up, it really seems like the built in hood is going to be a problem. If it doesn't vignette, you still have to cover those gaping holds on either side of the hood.

I have 4 82mm circular polarizers. A thin Singh-Ray (which is what I use most of the time), it's really thin, has no front threads, but it's not made in 95mm. (Funny enough I have their 105mm, but that darn hood gets in the way.) I have a Zeiss T* POL, but it's the thickest of all of them. Then I have a Hoya HD and a Marumi Super DHG. They are exactly the same thickness. The Hoya HD is similar to my Singh-Ray LB warming in color...the Marumi is cooler like the Zeiss. So in 95mm I can get a Marumi or a Kenko. Assuming they are the same thickness as my 82's...that is about as slim as I can get. Was thinking of trying this ND, it has no front threads...so I'd have to stick it in front of the polarizer. That seems odd, but I guess it would work.

http://www.adorama.com/BW95ND4XW.html

Bottom line, base on Ken Rockwell's tests (wow...never quoted Ken Rockwell before) his 9mm filter vignetted noticeably. So I'm hoping I can come in under 9mm by as much as I can and hope stopping down to f/11 gets rid of the vignetting. Worst case I'll just use the polarizer and stop down further I guess.

Sorry for being so far off topic, I was really excited about seeing filter threads on this lens. Wish I could just use my Lee setup, but hopefully I can find a ring combo that is thin enough to work.

-Tim

mMontag wrote:
F16-22 with a 95mm polarizer in shady conditions may give you a second or two. Heliopan has a 95mm 2.0 ND - but plan on spending another $350 to use that lens.

Fabricating an ND holder by sacrificing the push-on lens cap may be an option - similar to the attached - that 110* FOV is going to show vignetting very quickly beyond the edge of the ring - probably going to need to go to a 5"+ ND and holder.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1081875

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/828934-REG/Heliopan_709588_95mm_Neutral_Density_ND_.html



Mar 18, 2012 at 06:34 PM
RoySussex
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p.11 #14 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


Many thanks for the clear and enlightening responses to my question.

It's been a while since I last tested an evaluation release of DxO but I recall feeling that some shots I tested (and now it's been pointed out, probably shots where there's no component to show the negative effect of the correction) were substantially improved by DxO's code. Am I correct in thinking that this effect is more objectionable with closer subjects?

Roy



Mar 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.11 #15 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


As far as vignetting with filters, I doubt you have much to worry about unless you plan to use your polarizer or ND filter and the lens wide open... or if you plan to use a protective filter on.


Mar 19, 2012 at 10:29 AM
Toothwalker
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p.11 #16 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


RoySussex wrote:
Am I correct in thinking that this effect is more objectionable with closer subjects?


Objectionable is subjective, but the answer is no.




Mar 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM
bluetsunami
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p.11 #17 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


New samples from Filip Kulisev (landscape photographer) with some impressions of the lens...

http://blogs.zeiss.com/photo/en/?p=1601



Mar 19, 2012 at 12:09 PM
ben egbert
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p.11 #18 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


Hmm, been wanting a 14 because my 17TSE is not always wide enough. But 15 is only 2mm wider. Not for this price when I can stitch the 17.

Too bad they did not do an F4 at a lower cost.




Mar 19, 2012 at 12:51 PM
Yakim Peled
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p.11 #19 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


There's always the Sigma 12-24 II....

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Mar 19, 2012 at 04:11 PM
philip_pj
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p.11 #20 · Zeiss Distagon 2.8/15 ZE official, release in May 2012


A few good example images from Filip at blue's link.

I like how the lens enables compositions that draw one into the photo - a common 4x5 technique aided by movements and super wide lenses like Schneider's 120 degree AOV 47mm - a 13mm effective FL in 35mm photography). Whereas the 21mm is often a full frontal assault. The 15mm looks like it comes with a high level of authenticity...as I expected. Don't look overly wide, do they, these images...

Fly, I would be a little surprised if the lens cannot be used very effectively with a thin threaded filter of any kind on the front, wide open. As opposed to mechanical vignetting, I am guessing the optical vignetting one would see is of the same order of magnitude as the 21mm, as indicated by the illumination profile in the data sheets, albeit reported at a half stop slower for the 15mm.

Ken Rockwell, a filter user, is of the opinion the 21mm can handle two filters mounted together...and CZ knows users will want to take advantage of the fast max aperture with front filtration. We'll see.



Mar 19, 2012 at 04:37 PM
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