jamesf99
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 p.5 #14 · 7d AF vs 1-series AF in a new camera | |
thanks Robert. Another voice of reason and sound questioning comes through - even if my original post was hastily written and fueled by disgust. 
OntheRez wrote:
James,
It seems to be kind of hard to have a rational discussion around here these days. I think you are saying that given how good Canon AF was "back in the day" (with the 1998 street price reference), why are we not seeing comparable AF capacity across the higher end of the Canon line. Actually this is a truly valid question. I am currently shooting a 7D and a 1DIII. I got the 7D in an emergency when I was employed as a sports reporter/photographer and found that my 1DIIn just couldn't get a shot in the really bad like I had to work with. The 7D is "OK" but I only bought it used as I couldn't find a 1DIII in the short time frame I had to work with.
I shot the 7D thru football, volleyball and into basketball and grew increasingly frustrated with both its handling (a matter of personal preference) and its maddening tendency to "back focus" for want of a better term. I just picked up a 1DIII and while it is a far more complex beast to learn, I'm already seeing a much higher keeper rate and am actually getting the shot I'm aiming for.
Why do manufacturers "dumb down" AF systems? Having worked in a technical field I can give you one absolute and a second imponderable. The absolute is that the product released (any technical product) is controlled by the marketing droids and the bean counters. Doesn't really matter how brilliant the engineering solutions might be if the droids and bean counters don't bless it, it ain't going to happen....Show more →
I've not used a 7d, but there are several "very capable" people here (I won't drag them into this) that have my photographic respect that have said some less than admiring things about its AF. I'm pretty sure - in some cases - it's better than a 5 series, but perhaps not in the center. for the life of me I can't accept than again in a $3k expenditure (or potentially more if Canon has their way).
I made the same marketing comment in another thread and was initially attacked for it, but I think it became clear to all who really controls product features and pricing. I'm guessing that many people don't know what's going on and believe we're getting the products we are because that's all Canon can do. It's so far from what they CAN do and deliver it's... it's... I'll say it's beyond sad...
PS - I've worked in high tech marketing and was appalled at how the game is played, but it is what it is these days, and has probably always been the case. I will admit to a failing of mine and that's that I tend to think that everyone has access to the information and knows what's going on, but it isn't true. I may have seem more than some, but I need to keep in mind that people here have widely disparate backgrounds and not all have had a chance to see "the man behind the curtain".
The imponderable. I do not know how much the cost of a camera can be attributed to its AF system. The 7D with its dual digic (5?) processors would seem to have the power to support a complete AF system yet it doesn't. The only time I find the 7D out performing the 1DIII is when I've had to go to extreme ISO because of light conditions. In other words, the 1DIII - from my perspective - is ISO limited, not AF. I got the 1DIII because the 7D repeatedly with a variety of lenses and in various situations would focus on some part of the field of view utterly unconnected to where I was aiming. Perhaps I'm just a lousy photog blaming my tools for my own incompetence, but I can bluntly state that since I've started using the 1DIII my keeper rate has gone up significantly. I've even shot parts of the same game with the same lenses using the two cameras. The 1DIII keeps doing better than the 7D....Show more →
*Assuming* the AF is in a Digic processors (or the like), they are used across the range, from the lowliest $100 (full retail) P&S to the $6800 1Dx. They are identical - a Digic 3 is a 3, 4 is a 4, etc. - and each probably costs a couple of bucks to make, if that....that's not counting engineering time, but when you consider Canon sells P&S cameras to retailers at less than $100 (or they did) and still makes a profit, you can understand that the fully loaded cost is insignificant (the rest of the camera's parts are also included, such as lens, screen, case, etc.). Using multiple Digic processors (not accounting for the board layout/logic development) is mice nuts when it comes to cost.
I have no clue why Canon "seems" to cripple its lower price offerings even when they are expensive devices like the 5D and the 7D. I also doubt that if these cameras had excellent AF they'd "cannibalize" the professional level market. The advantages of the 1D series over other Canon offerings is many more things than just the AF. Durability for one jumps to mind. The only thing I can assert with a degree of confidence in this discussion is that Canon is capable of far better cameras than they currently sell. It is their corporate structure that makes the choices, not the engineers, programmers, and technicians.
Robert ...Show more →
I think Canon is simply protecting a cash cow.The usual term for what they do is "product differentiation" and Canon does most of it via firmware/software. Obviously, build quality and parts play a part, but for the most part, it's all smoke and mirrors. An interesting thread would be to go through the line and - by deduction - come up with a "highly probable" cost structure. It might open some eyes.
They've reaped big profits from these for a long time. I've been willing to pay what they asked for many decades (film/digital) but there's no longer any justification for it. We have 16-24MP cameras shooting at 9-10FPS with AF, and selling for $1300 or less (Sony nex-7 24mp, 10FPS) and Canon tells us that the 5d2 can only do 3.9 FPS at 21mp (software crippling). no, a nex-7 is not a FF camera, but a mp is a mp is a mp.
Many people refuse to believe how little these cost vs the prices we pay, and I'm not sure exactly why, but the resistance is amazing to me. Many would rather shoot the messenger than accept they are being fleeced.
thanks again for the discussion.
J-
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). What's the point of a low entry cost when the extras will kill you?