curious80 wrote:
I dont see why some people are so fascinated with having a 1-series AF in 5D series (or having the D800-like 51 point AF). As far as I am concerned the main improvements that 5DII AF needs include better performance from the outer points and a better coverage of the frame by the AF points. The 45-point or 51-points AF's with extensive tracking support are primarily needed by action/sports photographers. However those photographers tend to go for bodies with high FPS and large buffers - neither 5D series nor D800 have that. D700 was a different story because it had the high FPS and large buffer to make it suitable for action photography. Though still most Nikon professional shooters seemed to opt for D3 or D3s over the D700 anyway. So yes as far as I am concerned, slightly more AF points (maybe 19?) which are spread out more and with faster and more accurate performance for all AF points will be good enough for me. No need to lust for the 51 points just because the kids next door have it ...Show more →
if it gets to 6fps then it's enough for an all rounder than can do some sports pretty well, sure not a 100% sports monster but enough for some especially with the 1DX $6800 and $6800+3000 = $9800 and how many are going to plunk that down unless they are big time sports pros
Peter Le wrote:
True it does not have to be 51 point AF........but the 7D AF will not cut it ether sorry to say.....Peter
I get that some people need/want pro AF.
What exactly is lacking in the 7D AF for your needs? Looking at the photo gallery on your website, the 7D AF would be more than enough. I totally understand that you may be shooting BIF or doing sports photos or whatever, I just don't see it on your website. The only reason I ask, is that you may be thinking that the 7D AF isn't good enough for your needs, but maybe it is. Have you tried one?
surf monkey wrote:
I get that some people need/want pro AF.
What exactly is lacking in the 7D AF for your needs? Looking at the photo gallery on your website, the 7D AF would be more than enough. I totally understand that you may be shooting BIF or doing sports photos or whatever, I just don't see it on your website. The only reason I ask, is that you may be thinking that the 7D AF isn't good enough for your needs, but maybe it is. Have you tried one?
the tracking still seems erratic to me at times
and I just find myself actually trusting the center point on my 5D2 a bit more than the one on the 7D when it comes to stills
skibum5 wrote:
if it gets to 6fps then it's enough for an all rounder than can do some sports pretty well, sure not a 100% sports monster but enough for some especially with the 1DX $6800 and $6800+3000 = $9800 and how many are going to plunk that down unless they are big time sports pros
D800 does only 4fps, and if 5DIII is a 30MP+ body like D800 then it will also likely not do more than 4FPS or something like that. 6fps @ 36MP will be a huge amount of data to process. And other than FPS, having a large buffer is important too. You are not going to fit too many 36MP shots in the buffer unless you have a gigantic buffer. There are reasons why sports-oriented bodies tend to stick with low MPs.
jamesf99 wrote:
OK, I've never owned - or shot - a 7d, so I can't speak from experience, but I've read enough assessments and have owned enough 1-series and 5-series cameras to know how much they differ. I've often wondered why anyone, using any Canon camera, would want the 7d AF in anything.
Why would anyone set their sights so low? Why accept another crippled AF system like that found in the 7d (and yes, it absolutely is crippled even if it's better than the circa 1995 stuff we have in the 5 series)?
interesting - never shot one but you know its crippled.
I find the 7d's AF to be better than the 5d2, and that's after owning both for 2+ years and 35K clicks on each.
I currently have a 5DII, 7D and 1DIV. If I had a nickel for every time I read a comment where someone wanted the 7D autofocus in the 5DII . . . I would rather have the 5DII sensor in the 7D
Seriously - the 7D AF is great, it was my primary sports camera until I got the 1DIV and it did a great job. The limiting factor on the 7D was not the AF, it was the ISO for indoor sports like basketball. Outdoors for baseball and soccer where I could shoot under 1600 it is great!
Would Canon be better off only producing 1D series cameras that "do it all" but are costly or maintaining their current course and producing a variety of "specialized" cameras with different strengths and weaknesses that you have to pick form to suit your needs?
I think to a certain extent they make the lower tier cameras to fund there ability to also make the higher end cameras. So if they have to make 7Ds with "crippled" autofocus so they make money to sell the 1Ds that I want - great!
Peter Le wrote:
I think if they don`t they are going to lose a large number of long time Canon shooters. In my eyes they have been dicking around with us for more then 4 years. I am frankly tired of waiting. I have a great camera called a 1DsIII.....the only way I could afford it was to get it used......it was very used and it is wearing out from use....not just talking about it ...but taking pictures. I could probably wait a while longer with another used 1DsIII but because of another Canon move they have driven the used price up almost to the price of a new one. It would also be nice to see better live view then the old 1DsIII. So yes if they add the 7D auto focus to their new camera (what ever it is called) I will be selling my Canon stuff and moving on. It is not my child it is just a tool. I will miss the feel of Canon but I will adjust...it is just a tool. Why would you not choose the better tool.....to be faithful to a large corperation........come on..be real. Do you think they would do that for you ?........Show more →
It's not about being loyal to a big corporation - it's sticking with something you are familiar with. It's also a case of having to sell ALL your stuff (at a loss) and having to buy a whole kit all at once - a daunting task.
I have played with nikons in stores, and even used a buddy's d700 on the job. I have to say it felt very awkward, and I would have to make the switch during the off season and go crazy learning all the ins and outs of a new UI as well as the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various pieces.
surf monkey wrote:
I get that some people need/want pro AF.
What exactly is lacking in the 7D AF for your needs? Looking at the photo gallery on your website, the 7D AF would be more than enough. I totally understand that you may be shooting BIF or doing sports photos or whatever, I just don't see it on your website. The only reason I ask, is that you may be thinking that the 7D AF isn't good enough for your needs, but maybe it is. Have you tried one?
I am guilty of not up dating my website enough......I do a lot of kitesurfing stuff and some BIF. Not enough for a full on sports camera and my 1DsIII AF handles it just fine when it is needed. It is just getting very worn and old. I would like something smaller lighter with great auto focus and high res that does not cost a fortune. There is nothing in the used market to move up to and actually can`t even afford another used 1DsIII....have you seen the used prices for them lately.....I got one a while back for 3,000.....they are way up over 5 now. So it seems what I am looking for just does not exist and I am just wishing for to much. Oh wait Nikon just might have one....we will just have to wait and see. I would prefer a 5D with great auto focus or maybe a 3D between 3 and 4 grand. But I am just afraid Canon will just screw us again with a meager upgrade. I am mostly a landscaper for that good AF is not nessasary, just high res please......but I also make money with high res kitesurf and surf shots.....don`t need high frame speeds....just good AF. I have shot Canon for almost 30 years....but when you really come down to it....it is just a tool.
And yes I have tried 7D......the one I used was just to erratic....maybe a bad one but I was not impressed.......JMO......Peter
I am guilty of not up dating my website enough......I do a lot of kitesurfing stuff and some BIF. Not enough for a full on sports camera and my 1DsIII AF handles it just fine when it is needed. It is just getting very worn and old. I would like something smaller lighter with great auto focus and high res that does not cost a fortune. There is nothing in the used market to move up to and actually can`t even afford another used 1DsIII....have you seen the used prices for them lately.....I got one a while back for 3,000.....they are way up over 5 now. So it seems what I am looking for just does not exist and I am just wishing for to much. Oh wait Nikon just might have one....we will just have to wait and see. I would prefer a 5D with great auto focus or maybe a 3D between 3 and 4 grand. But I am just afraid Canon will just screw us again with a meager upgrade. I am mostly a landscaper for that good AF is not nessasary, just high res please......but I also make money with high res kitesurf and surf shots.....don`t need high frame speeds....just good AF. I have shot Canon for almost 30 years....but when you really come down to it....it is just a tool.
And yes I have tried 7D......the one I used was just to erratic....maybe a bad one but I was not impressed.......JMO......Peter ...Show more →
The first time I shot sports with my 7d I had trouble too. However, I realized that the defaults for AF at the time were ill conceived. After changing a couple custom functions and NOT using zone, I got much better results.
I primarily do weddings, and the 7d does a very good job in that regard. It replaced a 1d mark2 that I had for over a year, and I am still glad I sold the 1d2
curious80 wrote:
D800 does only 4fps, and if 5DIII is a 30MP+ body like D800 then it will also likely not do more than 4FPS or something like that. 6fps @ 36MP will be a huge amount of data to process. And other than FPS, having a large buffer is important too. You are not going to fit too many 36MP shots in the buffer unless you have a gigantic buffer. There are reasons why sports-oriented bodies tend to stick with low MPs.
It could drive 30-32MP at 6fps.
D800 does 5fps 1.2x crop and 6fps with special grip in DX mode.
timbop wrote:
It's not about being loyal to a big corporation - it's sticking with something you are familiar with. It's also a case of having to sell ALL your stuff (at a loss) and having to buy a whole kit all at once - a daunting task.
I have played with nikons in stores, and even used a buddy's d700 on the job. I have to say it felt very awkward, and I would have to make the switch during the off season and go crazy learning all the ins and outs of a new UI as well as the relative strengths and weaknesses of the various pieces....Show more →
Well hopefully Canon will do us right and give us better then 7D AF in a 5D or 3D and I will be very happy camper. I`m not looking forward to all the changes you speak of.....But I`m sure I would adjust . What I will not do is wait for ever for Canon to get it together. I think if they don`t come with something cutting edge this time they really don`t have any intention to........Peter
Peter Le wrote:
I do a lot of kitesurfing stuff and some BIF.
And yes I have tried 7D......the one I used was just to erratic....maybe a bad one but I was not impressed.......JMO......Peter
I suspected that there was something missing in the equation. I know there are a lot of people that can use the "lesser" AF systems that Canon produces, but some just can't and will be moving to Nikon. Like a lot of others on this thread and the "crippled" thread, I suspect that you'll be moving over to Nikon when the new D800 arrives. But that's not a cheap proposition either. Don't forget the extra dough for the computer upgrade. I wish I could afford it.
It just comes down to personal preferences and tolerance for equipment that's not the "best". We all live with compromises every day, and saying that I shouldn't have to is just not realistic for me.
acoll123 wrote:
I currently have a 5DII, 7D and 1DIV. If I had a nickel for every time I read a comment where someone wanted the 7D autofocus in the 5DII . . . I would rather have the 5DII sensor in the 7D
Seriously - the 7D AF is great, it was my primary sports camera until I got the 1DIV and it did a great job. The limiting factor on the 7D was not the AF, it was the ISO for indoor sports like basketball. Outdoors for baseball and soccer where I could shoot under 1600 it is great!
Would Canon be better off only producing 1D series cameras that "do it all" but are costly or maintaining their current course and producing a variety of "specialized" cameras with different strengths and weaknesses that you have to pick form to suit your needs?
I think to a certain extent they make the lower tier cameras to fund there ability to also make the higher end cameras. So if they have to make 7Ds with "crippled" autofocus so they make money to sell the 1Ds that I want - great!...Show more →
Your argument doesn't hold water anymore in this day and age. Just take a look at Nikon. I just don't understand why you guys continue to make excuses for Canon and at the same time pretend as if Nikon does not exist.
Not only that Nikon D800 has same AF as D4, it comes with popup flash, flash commando and ability to turn it into crop camera. I mean just think about it. The more I think about this the more I feel like a fool staying with canon this long.
To make matter worst some people were actually asking and hoping for a three year old 7D AF in 5DIII. What a shame.
surf monkey wrote:
I suspected that there was something missing in the equation. I know there are a lot of people that can use the "lesser" AF systems that Canon produces, but some just can't and will be moving to Nikon. Like a lot of others on this thread and the "crippled" thread, I suspect that you'll be moving over to Nikon when the new D800 arrives. But that's not a cheap proposition either. Don't forget the extra dough for the computer upgrade. I wish I could afford it.
It just comes down to personal preferences and tolerance for equipment that's not the "best". We all live with compromises every day, and saying that I shouldn't have to is just not realistic for me....Show more →
I still hope Canon will come through with something great to make us all smile. As I am sure a lot of posters are.....just getting very frustrated with Canon these days......Peter
I have a 1D2n, 1Ds2 & 7D & primarily shoot R/C events. I've pretty much let the 7D replace the 1D2n for flying photos because as I learned to use it I got better results until they are more than acceptable (keeper rate) The extra pixels are a welcome addition vs the 1D2n too. I'm on vacation right now & only brought the 7D & a Tamron 18-270 only to arrive in Cozumel & find a big poster about an air show (not an R/C event). I wished I'd had my 1Ds2 and some of my L's but I made do & think I did fine. This is with the camera held as high over my head as possible, guessing where to pan as the plane went by.
Note the GoPro Hero on the stabilizer.
It took at least a year to get comfortable using the 7D at events but now I'm more than satisfied with it when I consider what it cost.
okafoja wrote:
I can see your point assuming what you say about the Nikon cameras is true (I don't have any first hand experience). But, it's not worth it for me to start over with a new system for a speculative incremental increase in AF capabilities. Don't feel bad for me - I just don't think my gear has that much of an impact on my ability to take good photos . . .
Your argument doesn't hold water anymore in this day and age. Just take a look at Nikon. I just don't understand why you guys continue to make excuses for Canon and at the same time pretend as if Nikon does not exist.
Not only that Nikon D800 has same AF as D4, it comes with popup flash, flash commando and ability to turn it into crop camera. I mean just think about it. The more I think about this the more I feel like a fool staying with canon this long.
To make matter worst some people were actually asking and hoping for a three year old 7D AF in 5DIII. What a shame. ...Show more →
okafoja wrote:
Your argument doesn't hold water anymore in this day and age. Just take a look at Nikon. I just don't understand why you guys continue to make excuses for Canon and at the same time pretend as if Nikon does not exist.
Not only that Nikon D800 has same AF as D4, it comes with popup flash, flash commando and ability to turn it into crop camera. I mean just think about it. The more I think about this the more I feel like a fool staying with canon this long.
To make matter worst some people were actually asking and hoping for a three year old 7D AF in 5DIII. What a shame. ...Show more →
I can see your point assuming what you say about the Nikon cameras is true (I don't have any first hand experience). But, it's not worth it for me to start over with a new system for a speculative incremental increase in AF capabilities. Don't feel bad for me - I just don't think my gear has that much of an impact on my ability to take good photos . . . apparently it does for you.
I've tried to clarify my original post in this thread so most can understand it. Some may still not get it, but such is life...
This is a gear forum and my post was written in the context of posts I've read here, but some posters may not have read the same posts, have heard the same things, or may have never encountered an AF deficiency problem.
Not to drag anyone in to this mess unwillingly, but I think MVers said it best on a few occasions, when he questioned our AF expectations for a $3,000 camera. Others have done the same, but the point remains; you are not getting much from Canon at this point. We had 45 point AF on a $999 (full retail, lower street price) camera in 1998/1999. It (AF) made its way to the $2000 1VHS in 2002, and continued in the 1D/1Ds series until the mark III series. We had the same limited 5d AF move to the 5d2 because "no one ever complained" (directly from a Canon VPs comments. I wonder, does the phrase hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil mean anything to this guy? ).
AF *logic* processing is not created new each time [successful/disastrous 1 series experiments aside]. Fundamental concepts are shared, but differences may exist to respond to fewer/more points. New and improved logic/capabilities can flow to the other bodies.
I'm guessing, but it seems Nikon has made the choice to streamline their product line, and improve the feature set for their offerings. This has nothing to do with Nikon though, and it wouldn't matter to me if they never released the D800. This is about Canon not providing decent - and for $3k a single AF point is not decent, no matter how well that one point works - AF capability in a $3k camera.
