p.1 #1 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
Like many on here, I've been hoping for Sony or another manufacturer (besides $ Leica $) to release a compact full frame camera system. I always thought that the NEX system was designed to support full frame and that it would only be a matter of a year or two before the FF models came out.
I read the comments by others arguing that the E-mount could not take full frame lenses, that full frame sensors cost too much or that the it was not possible to make mirrorless FF with CMOS sensor due to the short register distance and the shading problem.
However I think the problem with FF NEX (or any similar system from another non-Leica company) is a combination of all those factors. A camera system is basically defined by its lens mount - the register distance and lens image circle / coverage and the only way for a system to eventually support FF is if the cameras and the lenses were designed for it to begin with.
Unfortunately though, nobody is going to do that because even though the FF market is very small, the company would be forced to pay the FF premium on every part of the system -- even the APS-C versions with increased lens mount size making larger cameras, increase lens design and production costs due to increased lens image circle coverage, over-design etc.. Since the APS-C models would comprise most of the sales (lets say 90-95%), the company would be forced to reduce profit margins (or increase prices) on 90-95% of its production just for the last 5-10% of the FF ones. No go.
The only reason why Leica has a full frame "compact" is because it already had a popular and extensive full frame compact camera system without mirrors. I don't think any other current major manufacturer has that going for them as they are all SLR based companies. That is why Nikon, Canon and Sony/Minolta have APS-C and FF camera systems --- they always had a preexisting full frame SLR camera system/mount which their digital cameras are compatible with.
Unfortunately, anyone planning to make a digital mirrorless full frame camera with short register distance must be doing so either because they have discovered a way to make full frame digital image sensors as cheap as APS-C sensors currently are (impossible), or they are simply planning to produce an alternative digital body for Leica compatible lenses and their users which is quite a small market to be honest.
So for these reasons, I say that we will have to keep on dreaming of FF mirrorless digital bodies not made by or for Leica.
p.1 #2 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
And here I thought Hope was Eternal.
I think there is still hope; of all the makers, Ricoh could do it with their GXR system. They don't have an existing lens line up they would need to duplicate to support this. They have prior art in their A12 M Mount unit which is a Leica M mount purpose built camera with an APS-C sized sensor. Bringing out a full frame version ought not be that much of a technical hurdle for them given they have done a bunch of work to bring out the APS-C version including supporting in-camera correction of colour shift and vignetting. To date I've not even used that feature, the camera does so well with even my 18mm lens.
Nikon's new D800 / D800E is three grand; surely there is enough pricing room between the Ricoh A12 module ($649) and a full frame version (let's guess at $1300) to allow Ricoh to make some money and earn the title of the worlds first real alternative to a Leica M9? Even if the module were priced closer to $2K I bet there'd be plenty of buyers.
Being a modular system, Ricoh might just have the edge the others don't have. Here's "hoping".
The other hope remains Nikon or Canon themselves but probably not any time soon. Or Sony I guess... with their A mount.
p.1 #3 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
I don't think quite so much pessimism is necessary for full frame E-mount prospects. The mount is already a generously large size (it can fit full-frame covering Leica M lenses on an adapter, so there's no problem with the fundamental mount size). Like Canon did when introducing the EF-s crop sensor lens line, Sony would not have to make every lens support full frame; only a smaller number of "premium" (possibly Zeiss branded) full-frame lenses. The full frame NEX mount could either be designed to not accept crop NEX lenses (but allow the full-frame lenses to also fit the crop mount), or recognize the crop lenses and automatically use a reduced portion of the sensor (Sony is already one of the leaders in high-resolution full frame sensors, so a combined 25Mpxl FF / 10Mpxl crop sensor might be possible). These solutions would not add any cost to the manufacture of crop NEX bodies, while allowing a more expensive parallel "NEX-Pro" line of bodies (just like most manufacturers do with FF/crop DSLRs).
p.1 #4 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
There is a rumored "Hybrid" mount, 35mm sensor Sony camera on the horizon, and my guess is that it will be in a NEX-7 like body, but the body will have a PDAF sensor and motor in the body, so it will be a little larger. The LA-EA2 adapter from Sony is similar in this approach, but the PDAF stuff is in the actual adapter. So, with an adapter, one can use a-mount lenses with full PDAF on a 35mm sensor, or one can remove the adapter and be left with the E-mount. If you put NEX lenses on the e-mount, it'll likely crop to aps-c, but if you use manual lenses, it'll allow full use of the 35mm sensor.
p.1 #5 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
The D800 at least sets an upper bound for price.
Feb 07, 2012 at 02:10 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
I expect the NEX 9 to be a full frame camera much as douglas has described, and here is what seems likely. It will work with e-mount lenses in a cropped mode and will have CDAF with these lenses. It will work with A-mount lenses with an adapter and have PDAF with these lenses. Presumably it will be possible to mount manual lenses using an e-mount adapter, but I am skeptical about the performance of anything wider than 50mm mounted this way. It might very well be downright crappy and the only way to get decent wide angle performance might be with A-mount lenses and the A-mount adapter. We will see, but I can't see Sony caring enough (or even much at all) about whether alt glass will work with this camera to make sure it works with alt wides. I would expect very mushy corners and colour shift, but sometime around 2014 we are likely to see. Frankly, I think that as Michael suggests Ricoh is more likely to do it well, and it will be Canon and Nikon that do it on a large scale with new lenses designed for the system, but that won't be for quite some time.
p.1 #7 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
FF? I was hoping for a MF NEX...
I think the NEX has become a much bigger success than Sony could ever dream of, and the over hyped demand for NEX7 now shows that there is more than enough market for very high-end products. Thus, I belive a FF NEX will be available in the future.
As with all technology, prices are lowered with every day that passes, and FF sensors will inevitably become the standard in consumer cameras in the future.
p.1 #8 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
Steve Spencer wrote:
I expect the NEX 9 to be a full frame camera much as douglas has described, and here is what seems likely. It will work with e-mount lenses in a cropped mode and will have CDAF with these lenses. It will work with A-mount lenses with an adapter and have PDAF with these lenses. Presumably it will be possible to mount manual lenses using an e-mount adapter, but I am skeptical about the performance of anything wider than 50mm mounted this way. It might very well be downright crappy and the only way to get decent wide angle performance might be with A-mount lenses and the A-mount adapter. We will see, but I can't see Sony caring enough (or even much at all) about whether alt glass will work with this camera to make sure it works with alt wides. I would expect very mushy corners and colour shift, but sometime around 2014 we are likely to see. Frankly, I think that as Michael suggests Ricoh is more likely to do it well, and it will be Canon and Nikon that do it on a large scale with new lenses designed for the system, but that won't be for quite some time....Show more →
Of course, the world of manual SLR lenses will still work great on a 35mm NEX camera. If Sony removes the AA filter, we might also get acceptable performance with wider rangefinder lenses.
p.1 #9 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
Well, the rumored Sony "hybrid" approach is one way to get there. But then that full frame "NEX" would be using A-mount and the its lenses which were designed for SLRs with long register distance.
What I'm talking about is a mirrorless compact FF with native FF lenses.
What are the odds that Sony would design and sell two 50mm E-mount lenses, one for the APS-C NEXes and the other for the full frame NEX-9? What about the rest of the lens line up?
p.1 #10 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
briantho wrote:
FF? I was hoping for a MF NEX...
I think the NEX has become a much bigger success than Sony could ever dream of, and the over hyped demand for NEX7 now shows that there is more than enough market for very high-end products. Thus, I belive a FF NEX will be available in the future. ...
p.1 #11 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
I did not see the nex-7 coming 2 years ago so it would be hard to predict anything. I'd have bought a complete Contax G system for 1/2 of what it's going for now.
p.1 #12 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
ken.vs.ryu wrote:
I did not see the nex-7 coming 2 years ago so it would be hard to predict anything. I'd have bought a complete Contax G system for 1/2 of what it's going for now.
no kidding, why did i only buy two contax g lenses when they were $200.
p.1 #15 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
HopeIsEternal wrote:
What I'm talking about is a mirrorless compact FF with native FF lenses.
In that case, I may agree, because, without a legacy lens user base to cater to, camera makers are free to make whatever sized sensor they wish, and 135 sensors may be cost prohibitive.
Still, one has to think that someone would want to yank the rug out from under Leica and make a 135 camera for M lenses. I can dream.
p.1 #16 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
sebboh wrote:
no kidding, why did i only buy two contax g lenses when they were $200.
Hmmm. I bought them all when they were full cost a decade or more ago. I lamented when I saw the price of the lenses drop to under $100 each! I figured I would just hang on to them because they just weren't worth selling at that price. And now, it seems my faith in their intrinsic value has been repaid.
p.1 #18 · Why you'll never see a full frame NEX mount camera
Lotusm50 wrote:
Hmmm. I bought them all when they were full cost a decade or more ago. I lamented when I saw the price of the lenses drop to under $100 each! I figured I would just hang on to them because they just weren't worth selling at that price. And now, it seems my faith in their intrinsic value has been repaid.
