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Archive 2012 · 1D X samples

  
 
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #1 · 1D X samples


Maybe I am blind. I realy do not see waxworks. For me it looks like skin.
But I saw an D4 ISO 6400 image that was not better then what my 3 year old camera at 1/3 price did. Not that spectacular for a flagship that still offers 25% less pixels ...
The pic was great (in composition and caught moment) next to that.



Feb 08, 2012 at 03:41 PM
adrianb
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p.4 #2 · 1D X samples


Ralph Conway wrote:
Maybe I am blind. I realy do not see waxworks. For me it looks like skin.
But I saw an D4 ISO 6400 image that was not better then what my 3 year old camera at 1/3 price did. Not that spectacular for a flagship that still offers 25% less pixels ...
The pic was great (in composition and caught moment) next to that.


Is it some kind of Canon fanboy characteristic to defend the crappy 1Dx samples and mock the D4 /D800 ones?

I've seen you defend the 5D II to the end of the universe as if it's THE CAMERA....and comparing it to D3 D3X D3S....

Are you serious? Are you comparing a pro body like the Nikon D3 series with a mid level FF ?

I'm not talking about IQ,I'm talking about all the features the D3/D3X/1Ds III/1D IV cameras have that the 5D II doesn't...

Dammit, I can't shoot with my 5D II if it snows / rains...

Get a grip..(and i'm not referring to a BG-E6)



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:01 PM
nikt
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p.4 #3 · 1D X samples


Guys, you're being really harsh.

Nikon has, many times, put out the worst initial samples ever.
I remember when the D3 first came out, the first images had a green tinge.
Obviously now, they were just crap photos, with bad processing but a bit scary at the time.

Ok, quite honestly, I was expecting better looking sample images but these are not production models, and I'm absolutely almost positively nearly certain that the images will be better in the production model.



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:36 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #4 · 1D X samples


Oh adrianb

Yes, I am serious. And I am not and was never interested in "features" I just need a camera that does what I want to and does it in highest (payable) IQ.
For me a "pro" model is not done with great build, fantastic features and a pro price.
IQ is what counts for me first. Fullfilling MY needs (yes, Iam egocentic) is second.
If I can afford it is third. To me nothing else counts.

I liked the D700 from first in hands. I nearly fell in love with it. But 12 MP was less, what I needed. So it was gone. "Your" D3 pro body (imo never a pro - 3DX was one) was a competitor against 1Ds MK III. Both where outsolved by the "mid lev" (your words) 5D IIs IQ. That is just fact. Canon themselfes said its IQ in ISO over 3.200 is better than 1D IIIs one. What do you think why they merged lines? "Pros" shot and shoot with 5D II instead of 1Ds MK III. Nikon had to offer a 3Ds to get back into competition again against 5D II in high ISO and still was back about 75% in resolution (and twice as expensive). That is your "pro"? Compared to that Leica is "pro" because they offer P & S cameras at incredible prices and generations back features. If this is your "pro" I really do not care about. Nikon started to offer a "prosumer" D3 (D700) to get back into sales. Still at last generation resolution. You might say: "Now they are top of the art!" But here I am: 12 MP was not what served MY needs. 15-20 was great. 21 was enough. 24 not necesarry (for me). Why should I wish to have 36? Nikonian "consumers" NEED it really "urgent" instead of their "crippled" 6 year back 12 MP!

You can not shoot with 5D II in snow/rain? You ever tried? I did dozend of times. Never anything happened to it.

Edited on Feb 08, 2012 at 05:21 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:43 PM
S Dilworth
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p.4 #5 · 1D X samples


ausemmao wrote:
Fortunately this is untrue.

For Bayer sensors there is not that much room for improvement. For any technology that no longer needs light absorbing CFAs before their photosite equivalent, there is a long way to go.


The creator of that chart says here that his limits are for 100% quantum efficiency across all visible wavelengths and zero read noise. Dumping Bayer can't save us!

Of course, so far a colour filter array over panchromatic silicon has been our best option by far. And for every additional improvement, the barrier to entry for competing technologies is raised that little bit higher. At this point nobody wants to fund alternatives because they'd have to spend a decade catching up with Bayer-based solutions (see Foveon for a good way to spend a fortune and get nowhere).



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:43 PM
adrianb
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p.4 #6 · 1D X samples


Ralph Conway wrote:
Oh adrianb

Yes, I am serious. And I am not and was never interested in "features" I just need a camera that does what I want to and does it in highest (payable) IQ.
For me a "pro" model is not done with great build, fantastic features and a pro price.
IQ is what counts for me first. Fullfilling MY needs (yes, Iam egocentic) is second.
If I can afford it is third. To me nothing else counts.

I liked the D700 from first in hands. I nearly fell in love with it. But 12 MP was less, what I needed. So it
...Show more


Ralph I think you are obsessed with IQ and you're missing the whole point...

There is a need of certain features to get that IQ which you are craving for..

Fast & accurate AF is certainly an essential one.

If you want IQ, go get a MF with a digital back and do weddings with that...ok?

So to you the fact of the matter that 5D can't focus jack sh*t with outer points is irellevant as wedding photographer, right?

To you,all that matters is if you allign the bride and groom in a garden and make 'em stay still, you can get nice sharp and crisp photos of them with your 24-70 or whatever, right?

If they start running and you switch to AI servo, your scenario is up in flames.....right?

I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you ......the way you dismiss those features which set apart a 1D series from a 5D series...

a) AF (faster, accurate)
b) dual card slot (life saver in some situations, in case your CF card goes wild on you)
c) weather sealing (lets you shoot in situations which deem the 5D unusable)

etc...

Now you need to tell me that all of these DO NOT count for you,as a photographer, in getting that nice image that you keep talking about (iq..iq...iq...iq..)

I wonder how the D3 owners looking at your statement as you call their body a 'non pro body' (btw, it's not MY D3. I never owned a Nikon, I have a 5D II).

Try outresolving a D3 and a 1Ds3 in crappy light or on fast moving subjects...actually I don't even know why I'm trying to reason with you since you don't seem to grasp the basics.. the differences between a 1Ds III and a 5D II..

Also, try to keep the names right (confusing the nikon D3x with a 3Dx would cause misunderstanding...)...it's the least you can do for the Nikon owners..after saying their D3 was never a pro body)
This goes for the Nikon D3s as well.

You say Nikon is crap because they got 12mp pro bodies, right? You,as an event shooter,do you offer your clients huge prints to back up your statements where you defend the 21mp race?
Or your framing needs improvement and 21megapixels help you along with cropping much better than a 12mp camera?

If the 5Dc had a 1D series AF, half of the people who migrated from 5Dc to 5D II wouldn't have sold their 5Dc...

If the 5D II had a 1D series AF....then probably it would have been indeed a perfect camera for many...

But you have to take that up with Canon...

You are making so much nonsense that you are not even a TRUE canon fanboy.




Feb 08, 2012 at 05:23 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #7 · 1D X samples


adrianb wrote:
Ralph I think you are obsessed with IQ and you're missing the whole point...


Maybe. Sorry. But what else? Everything else I can controll. Worse IQ not.

There is a need of certain features to get that IQ which you are craving for..

Let me know.

Fast & accurate AF is certainly an essential one.

The cener point is fast and accurate.

If you want IQ, go get a MF with a digital back and do weddings with that...ok?

No. Can you explain? Using 35mm does not mean worse IQ since I bought my first DSLR (D60 in 2002 at 6 MP).

So to you the fact of the matter that 5D can't focus jack sh*t with outer points is irellevant as wedding photographer, right?

Yes. Using the outer points and switching to one is contra productive to catching the right moment. I like to use a lens wide open. For that always the photographer has to decide. No camera can, no matter how accurate wich points are. The cam is not able to know where I want to have the focus. So choose it and do the picture is a thing of a 4rth second. Never ever I met somebody, who was able to chosse and select one outer FP within. Maybe you are different. Congratulations.

To you,all that matters is if you allign the bride and groom in a garden and make 'em stay still, you can get nice sharp and crisp photos of them with your 24-70 or whatever, right?

No. If I would shoot that way, I would have all time to choose any outer point.

If they start running and you switch to AI servo, your scenario is up in flames.....right?

No. If they start running I do not have the time to switch to Al-Servo. And at 4FPS there is no need for it. I would just shoot frame by frame.

I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you ......the way you dismiss those features which set apart a 1D series from a 5D series...

Try to laugh - that is always good for you. Beeing sorry would not help me anyway. Neither you.

a) AF (faster, accurate)

Yes, I saw. That is great. But with loosing IQ ... no way. I am not only shooting running brides, but in main time portraits. Did you ever tried to switch to manual focus?

b) dual card slot (life saver in some situations, in case your CF card goes wild on you)
Never had any trouble with any CF card. The second slot is great to hand out a copy of your shots to a customer (would be a great help for me at the moment.

c) weather sealing (lets you shoot in situations which deem the 5D unusable)

Its a fear fantasy. I never stoped shooting in rain or snowing and never had any issues. %D II is well working in rain. I let my D60 out in the rain for 10 hours at a grill party. The lens was full of water. I just put out the akkus, dried it for 6 hours and restarted it. It worked without any problems for another 1.5 years. Then the shutter broke. After 130.000 releases (promised where 60k). I would have the same fear, using a seald body. There is still no guarantee on it.

etc...

Now you need to tell me that all of these DO NOT count for you,as a photographer, in getting that nice image that you keep talking about (iq..iq...iq...iq..)


I do not need to tell you anything, adrianb. But if you like to hear/read: Yes. All that does not count to me to make my nice images. But IQ does, right.

I wonder how the D3 owners looking at your statement as you call their body a 'non pro body' (btw, it's not MY D3. I never owned a Nikon, I have a 5D II).

Is it important, what D3 owners think about my statement? Are my statements important to anybody except me. To you? I owned 2 Nikons (film) they where as nice as all of my other film cameras (Cosina, Minolta, Olympus, Canon). If you have a 5D MK II, why you do not use it instead of whining, how bad it is. Or sell it and buy something else?

Try outresolving a D3 and a 1Ds3 in crappy light or on fast moving subjects...actually I don't even know why I'm trying to reason with you since you don't seem to grasp the basics.. the differences between a 1Ds III and a 5D II

In crappy light? there is a section on my webside showing concerts. 90% was shot manual. Nikonians asked me: How did you get those images. My answer: "Switch of AF. For that there is a switch." For you: IF AF does not work focus manual. that is one of two causes, why using a (D)SLR. Else you can do the pic with your cell phone, too.

Also, try to keep the names right (confusing the nikon D3x with a 3Dx would cause misunderstanding...)...it's the least you can do for the Nikon owners..after saying their D3 was never a pro body)
This goes for the Nikon D3s as well.


You did not understand what I as talking about? Sorry. Maybe I had a couple of beer to much. And I am an old man. My brain is not working as good as in younger times.

You are making so much nonsense that you are not even a TRUE canon fanboy.

The nonsense I did was to answer to your post. But that was my decission. Take your gear and shoot. Its great and (like any gear) never better then the person behind.


Edited on Feb 08, 2012 at 06:22 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2012 at 06:09 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.4 #8 · 1D X samples


adrianb wrote:
You are making so much nonsense that you are not even a TRUE canon fanboy.


Correction: You are right. I am not a Canon fanboy. I do not care about any brand. If I am a fanboy, yes, I am a 5D MK II one. There is only one thing that connects me to Canon. The scroll wheel. If you (after I) get one time used to it I was missing it with any other camera. I would shoot with XXXs if they had it.

Nikon does not. Aweful!



Feb 08, 2012 at 06:16 PM
JIrwin
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p.4 #9 · 1D X samples


^^^

That has got to be one of the best step-by-step replies I have ever read.



Feb 08, 2012 at 06:59 PM
EIREHotspur4
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p.4 #10 · 1D X samples


Samples still look pretty good though.

Well I seem to have been waiting forever along with a lot of other people for the Canon 5d3.

I had a look at the D800 and spotted a Killer feature for me.

Live HDMI out.

If the Canon 5d3 doesn't have this feature then it is going to have to be something really amazing to prevent me thinking what I thought was unthinkable.



Feb 08, 2012 at 07:51 PM
NikkorAIS
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p.4 #11 · 1D X samples


Ralf Great post. Really entertaining and informative. I respect how you kept your cool.



As far as these sample images. To be honest more and more I am really getting excited about getting the 1dx into my hands.

Keep in mind I am used to shooting with the Nikon D3, and the D3s and fast and exotic Nikkor AIS glass.

So really the AF issues that most seem to have with the 5D2 are frankly .. lost on me.

I shot the Mac's major tournament and got thousands of in focus images with the 5D2.
And in really low light(not crappy just low) there is always manual focus/ live view.
I will alwsu find a way to get the shot with what ever camera I happen to be using .

I am with with Ralf where it comes to IQ and From the sample images provided and the really amaxing Vidio I see no reason that "in my hands" the 1DX will deliver the goods.

Did anyone else notice the sound was really good on that sample video?

If other's think the price is to high on the IDx or it dosnt have the features you need. I say make the switch to Nikon. It's a good system. And with the D-800 and new D4 coming it's getting even better.

Dont let the door hit you on the way out.
More for the rest of us. As I like to say.


As far as the price of the Canon 1Dx, not sure what to say. People always want everything for nothing. But IMO For what your geting, It seems fair to me. And If you want the newest top end Canon pro body, Pay up or shut up. I am not sure that the lowest price should be the most important factor in the equation.

Reliability, accurate AF, awsome IQ, FPS. huge buffer, good Low ISO performance and .. most importantly glass.


And I can say, that I having just just swtiched back to Canon have no plans to return to Nikon, at least not right away.

And when I recently made the switch from Nikon to Canon, I didnt even know the 1Dx was coming. When I found out I was like. "Bonus"


Gregory






Edited on Feb 08, 2012 at 09:02 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2012 at 08:55 PM
brian_sp
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p.4 #12 · 1D X samples


adrianb wrote:
Is it some kind of Canon fanboy characteristic to defend the crappy 1Dx samples and mock the D4 /D800 ones?

I've seen you defend the 5D II to the end of the universe as if it's THE CAMERA....and comparing it to D3 D3X D3S....

Are you serious? Are you comparing a pro body like the Nikon D3 series with a mid level FF ?

I'm not talking about IQ,I'm talking about all the features the D3/D3X/1Ds III/1D IV cameras have that the 5D II doesn't...

Dammit, I can't shoot with my 5D II if it snows / rains...

Get a grip..(and i'm not referring to
...Show more

+100
the guy really is getting irritating singin the same ole song



Feb 08, 2012 at 09:00 PM
Netgarden
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p.4 #13 · 1D X samples


I agree with KCPhoto. They look a little dull. Reminds me of a recent sigma ad that for the life of me I couldn't figure out why they used photos that either needed to be tossed, or at least shopped a bit better. Sigma usually has nice color, and it was the wrong pics for sure! Same thing here. Those pics need some pop!

Forgot to add, I do however bet the ISO beats the new nikon from what I have read. Of course you can expect a 36mpx camera to have more noise. Heck my 16 mpx mk IV is really great at ISO.



Feb 08, 2012 at 09:12 PM
dehowie
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p.4 #14 · 1D X samples


For the guys in fantasy land who are desciples of the myth the the D3/D3s reign supreme an interesting article from some independents done who flatly refuse to use Nikon for star shooting because of their findings.

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm

Draw your own conclusions about how Nikon get the performance at Hi ISO these guys tested pretty thoroughly and evenly as they are only interested in the most detail etc for there images.




Feb 08, 2012 at 09:21 PM
alundeb
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p.4 #15 · 1D X samples


Thanks, dehowie. Very interesting link.


Feb 09, 2012 at 01:47 AM
skibum5
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p.4 #16 · 1D X samples


dehowie wrote:
For the guys in fantasy land who are desciples of the myth the the D3/D3s reign supreme an interesting article from some independents done who flatly refuse to use Nikon for star shooting because of their findings.

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm

Draw your own conclusions about how Nikon get the performance at Hi ISO these guys tested pretty thoroughly and evenly as they are only interested in the most detail etc for there images.




yeah i've seen that page before, do keep in mind they are talking long exposures here, so that nasty nikon stuff wouldn't affect many shots (although the 1 second limit for it to kick in is awfully low, it is true exposures that long for tripod stuff can be very common) but this wouldn't affect stuff like DxO sensor measurements



Feb 09, 2012 at 02:27 AM
Gubat
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p.4 #17 · 1D X samples


JIrwin wrote:
^^^

That has got to be one of the best step-by-step replies I have ever read.



Totally Agree.. Read it twice....



Feb 09, 2012 at 04:08 AM
thw2
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p.4 #18 · 1D X samples


dehowie wrote:
For the guys in fantasy land who are desciples of the myth the the D3/D3s reign supreme an interesting article from some independents done who flatly refuse to use Nikon for star shooting because of their findings.
http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm
Draw your own conclusions about how Nikon get the performance at Hi ISO these guys tested pretty thoroughly and evenly as they are only interested in the most detail etc for there images.


Don't have to go that far. Here's a recent review of J1/V1:

"Unusually (but not uniquely) the Nikon J1 and V1 apply noise reduction to high ISO raw files as well as JPEGs, whatever NR setting you use. Raw noise reduction kicks in at ISO 800, but its effect is most obvious towards the top end of the J1 and V1's ISO sensitivity scale."

Anyway, why are people arguing over sample photos? Hasn't history taught us anything? I'll just wait for DPReview and Imaging Resource.... (no DXOMark please.... their tests fail to pick up in-camera RAW NR... and they assign scores base on their test results even when they recognize the problems with them...)



Feb 09, 2012 at 06:19 AM
nikt
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p.4 #19 · 1D X samples


dehowie wrote:
For the guys in fantasy land who are desciples of the myth the the D3/D3s reign supreme an interesting article from some independents done who flatly refuse to use Nikon for star shooting because of their findings.

http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/nikon_test/test.htm

Draw your own conclusions about how Nikon get the performance at Hi ISO these guys tested pretty thoroughly and evenly as they are only interested in the most detail etc for there images.



Yeah, great link.

"the displayed sensitivity of 6400 ISO for the Nikon D3 #1 corresponds to a sensitivity of 600 ISO for the Canon 40D"



Let's face it, everyone who's EVER picked up a D3 and has been wow'ed is a ... what, gullibe idiot living in fantasy land? (paraphrased )




Feb 09, 2012 at 06:46 AM
alundeb
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p.4 #20 · 1D X samples


nikt wrote:
Yeah, great link.

"the displayed sensitivity of 6400 ISO for the Nikon D3 #1 corresponds to a sensitivity of 600 ISO for the Canon 40D"



Let's face it, everyone who's EVER picked up a D3 and has been wow'ed is a ... what, gullibe idiot living in fantasy land? (paraphrased )



They are talkning about system gain for a 12 Bit ADC on Nikon vs. 14 bit ADC on Canon. The system gain is the amplifiication from a sensor signal correspong to 1 e- to 1 ADU. Naturally it is 4 times higher for a 12 bit ADC. For both 14 bit conversions, the system gain with Nikon ISO 6400 corresponds to Canon ISO 2400. No promlem with that.



Feb 09, 2012 at 07:17 AM
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