Tariq Gibran wrote:
So, you are suggesting that splitting the incoming light rays and then re-assembling that light ray, as Nikon is doing with the D800E, will result in a softer image than say just using an optical glass with the correct refractive index (so focusing/ aperture remain correct for the design of the focal plane) instead? I would be curious to hear some expert opinions on that.
No, using a pure, clear optical material with the same refractive index as lithium niobate would give almost exactly the same behavior as what there is today. It is mostly an assembly cost-reduction thing, if you removed the top layer and made the coverglass layer thinner, you would have had to shim the sensor mount forwards to not change the ray paths. If you didn't do this, then AF would be off by quite a large amount. The current solution is more expensive in material bill, but cheaper and more simple in assembly - it might even out economically - and then it's way easier to keep the models as close as you can. Fewer spare parts to keep track of, no "special model" parts at all except for the filter pack itself.
Doing it like this, they:
*allow all sensor manufacture lines to stay intact - they don't need two separate lines.
*allow sensor mount to stay the same between both models - also removing another "separate line" of assembly
*allow lenses to have the same behavior in both cameras, only change the sensor response
What they basically can do is have two bins of top-layer glass, one for the "E", one for the normal one. Then they need two bins of badges and stickers - and a different firmware.
On almost all Nikons you can remove ONE part of the AA filter, if you find a new coverglass with the right IR and UV filters. That one is quite easy, since it's "floating" in front of the sensor.
The other one is a LOT harder, since it is bonded to the sensor surface proper (actually the microlenses) with an optical gel.
theSuede wrote:
No, using a pure, clear optical material with the same refractive index as lithium niobate would give almost exactly the same behavior as what there is today. It is mostly an assembly cost-reduction thing, if you removed the top layer and made the coverglass layer thinner, you would have had to shim the sensor mount forwards to not change the ray paths. If you didn't do this, then AF would be off by quite a large amount. The current solution is more expensive in material bill, but cheaper and more simple in assembly - it might even out economically - and then it's way easier to keep the models as close as you can. Fewer spare parts to keep track of, no "special model" parts at all except for the filter pack itself.
Doing it like this, they:
*allow all sensor manufacture lines to stay intact - they don't need two separate lines.
*allow sensor mount to stay the same between both models - also removing another "separate line" of assembly
*allow lenses to have the same behavior in both cameras, only change the sensor response
What they basically can do is have two bins of top-layer glass, one for the "E", one for the normal one. Then they need two bins of badges and stickers - and a different firmware. ...Show more →
Thanks, I was really hoping you would answer this. So, the method Nikon has chosen with the D800E has no downside from an optical point of view. That's good to know.
theSuede wrote:
On almost all Nikons you can remove ONE part of the AA filter, if you find a new coverglass with the right IR and UV filters. That one is quite easy, since it's "floating" in front of the sensor.
The other one is a LOT harder, since it is bonded to the sensor surface proper (actually the microlenses) with an optical gel.
Same goes for what maxmax (iirc)... they are removing one, but not the other.
"We're contacting you again about your purchase of "Nikon D800E 36.3 MP CMOS FX-Format Digital SLR Camera (Body Only)." Unfortunately, we recently learned that the release date for this item has been changed again.
The manufacturer has changed the release date to an unknown date in the future, and we can't provide an updated delivery date. You're welcome to leave your order open, and we'll ship it as soon as we receive new information from the manufacturer."
carstenw wrote:
Why do you use Amazon for such purchases? There must be a million little deserving photo stores...
Easy, fast, order from the comfort of my home, no tax or shipping charges, and it just turns up at my door in 2 days. Unfortunately, I don't know any little deserving photo stores. The one or two that there might be in this small city, I don't particularly like, plus it's a 35-40 mile round trip drive into town.
carstenw wrote:
Why do you use Amazon for such purchases? There must be a million little deserving photo stores...
Maybe to avoid paying100's in sales tax.
I forgot that you guys can still avoid taxes somehow Here it is unavoidable. I even had to go to customs recently to clear a lens cap from China, for f*ck's sake. A half day off work for 7 Euro. Doh. Then again, the lifestyle is good and we are well taken care of, so there are both sides.
Anyway, I am thinking of pre-ordering the D800E but I am still undecided. I would like a smaller FF camera, but was unconvinced by the less than 100% viewfinder of the D700, as well as the somewhat truncated operational experience compared to the D3. I really don't need 36MP though, and would prefer 18-24MP. Oh well.
Lotusm50 wrote:
Update from Amazon.com on delivery:
"We're contacting you again about your purchase of "Nikon D800E 36.3 MP CMOS FX-Format Digital SLR Camera (Body Only)." Unfortunately, we recently learned that the release date for this item has been changed again.
The manufacturer has changed the release date to an unknown date in the future, and we can't provide an updated delivery date. You're welcome to leave your order open, and we'll ship it as soon as we receive new information from the manufacturer."
Here we go again...
I received the same email this morning re the D800E but I doubt it means much. B&H still shows April 12th and this is probably just Amazon correcting their mistake of showing the D800E as shipping around the same time as the D800 for some.
carstenw wrote:
I forgot that you guys can still avoid taxes somehow Here it is unavoidable. I even had to go to customs recently to clear a lens cap from China, for f*ck's sake. A half day off work for 7 Euro.
Unfortunately, in this country such taxes would not go to pay for social democratic initiatives as in Germany anyway. We do get hit with customs but never for something inexpensive like a lens cap! Jeez, 7 Euro was probably more than you paid for the damn cap! I just paid $15 customs for a $700 lens from the U.K. for instance.
No worries Tariq, January 2013 is just around the corner and you'll get the taxes without the 'free goodies'. Should be a fine ride. As if anything is really free but that's social democracy for you. But who am I to quibble about such details.
j.liam wrote:
The lifestyle is good here too and I can take care of myself, thank you.
I wasn't implying anything. Just saying that the taxes pay for something so I don't mind them. I have never lived in the States and can't compare. Jeez.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Unfortunately, in this country such taxes would not go to pay for social democratic initiatives as in Germany anyway. We do get hit with customs but never for something inexpensive like a lens cap! Jeez, 7 Euro was probably more than you paid for the damn cap! I just paid $15 customs for a $700 lens from the U.K. for instance.
The 7 Euro was the payment for the cap, including shipping There was no customs fee, apparently it was just a spot-check. Normally small cheap items just go through.
I don't want to dig to deep into the political dogma that can arise quickly; however, I will say this, in the US, the states charge sales tax, there is no "Federal" sales tax per se and you cannot charge sales tax to someone who lives out or your state (yet) unless they come into your state to purchase something. Therefore, if I live in California and I travel to New York and I buy something there then I have to pay sales tax for it because I am in New York at the time; however, if I purchase something online from New York and it is shipped to California then I am not obligated to pay sales tax on that item. A lot of it stems from the idea of "No taxation without representation". I am all for supporting the "local" stores when possible, but sometimes you live in an area where there is no local store that carries the equipment you need, and sometimes the local stores are not worth supporting (not surprisingly there are some real bozo's in the photography industry).
Sorry for the hijack but wanted to bring some clarity to those not from the US.
wjmeyer wrote:
I don't want to dig to deep into the political dogma that can arise quickly; however, I will say this, in the US, the states charge sales tax, there is no "Federal" sales tax per se and you cannot charge sales tax to someone who lives out or your state (yet) unless they come into your state to purchase something. Therefore, if I live in California and I travel to New York and I buy something there then I have to pay sales tax for it because I am in New York at the time; however, if I purchase something online from New York and it is shipped to California then I am not obligated to pay sales tax on that item. A lot of it stems from the idea of "No taxation without representation". I am all for supporting the "local" stores when possible, but sometimes you live in an area where there is no local store that carries the equipment you need, and sometimes the local stores are not worth supporting (not surprisingly there are some real bozo's in the photography industry).
Sorry for the hijack but wanted to bring some clarity to those not from the US. ...Show more →
Not a hijack at all; I have a good friend at work, a German, who was utterly befuddled by the notion of police having to break off a car chase at a county or State line because their jurisdiction ended there. Many unfamiliar with US history don't realize that it is a union of sovereign states whose fiscal relationship is quite different than the EU.
j.liam wrote:
Not a hijack at all; I have a good friend at work, a German, who was utterly befuddled by the notion of police having to break off a car chase at a county or State line because their jurisdiction ended there. Many unfamiliar with US history don't realize that it is a union of sovereign states whose fiscal relationship is quite different than the EU.
carstenw wrote:
Why do you use Amazon for such purchases? There must be a million little deserving photo stores...
Actually, no there isn't ...
It's nearly 200 miles to the nearest "little deserving photo store". Unless you live in a city with 250,000+ it's a rare day to find a real photo store anymore. I have to drive nearly 200 miles roundtrip to get to my nearest "little deserving photo store" ... you can do the math on time & money (petrol/gas & tax) involved.
I'd gladly support one that was in proximity to do so ... but they just don't exist like they once did. I do however support plenty of "little quilt shops" via my better half.
FM B&S
KEH
B&H
Adorama
Amazon
Ebay
Depends on what I'm looking for and new vs. used, but e-commerce is vastly becoming the norm.
Here it is unavoidable. I even had to go to customs recently to clear a lens cap from China, for f*ck's sake. A half day off work for 7 Euro. Doh. Then again, the lifestyle is good and we are well taken care of, so there are both sides.
