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Archive 2012 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter

  
 
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


I have been searching for a way to use my existing Lee holder (Lee Foundation kit) + Lee filters with the Canon 17mm f4L TS-E. I wanted to be able to use the same holder with all my other lenses.
I know that shifting would be limited by this set-up (instead of the Colkin X-Pro) but it should not interfere with tilting movements. My idea was to use a spare lens cap glued to a 82mm WA Lee adapter.
While browsing for a few ideas, I found a German site describing exactly what I wanted to do. It shows the process of creating this custom adapter step-by-step. I will give it a try and report how functional this really is. Here is the link:
http://www.linsenschuss.de/index.php/blog/79-canon-ts-e-17mm-f4l-filterhalter

Here is Google Translate version of the article.

Fred

Edited on May 22, 2012 at 08:24 PM



Feb 01, 2012 at 12:31 PM
Zeph
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


I'm very interested in seeing the outcome of this!


Feb 02, 2012 at 10:35 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Zeph wrote:
I'm very interested in seeing the outcome of this!


I just started.
I'm going to follow the process I posted on the link above. It has step-by-step images on how to create your own 17mm TSE Lee adapter.



Feb 03, 2012 at 02:20 PM
Zeph
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Fred Miranda wrote:
I just started.
I'm going to follow the process I posted on the link above. It has step-by-step images on how to create your own 17mm TSE Lee adapter.


My daughter a linguist, can read German and I was going pass your link along for a translation. But I'd gladly wait for yours...



Feb 03, 2012 at 05:22 PM
jwin
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Excellent work Fred, thanks for the additional product shots. I've been leaching off of my buddy's 17 TS-E, this will be really handy.

How did you come across an extra cap on this lens? I presume you can purchase it from B&H etc.?

edit: OK I see it. $34. Not bad at all. Considering Nikon's 14-24 zoom filter rig is like $300-400 from Lee and Fotodiox. Pretty cheap solution.



Feb 03, 2012 at 06:26 PM
AJSJones
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


A quick look at the German text says you can shift only 4mm or so with the two-slot holder (as you both used) but tilt is mostly OK - a bit of vignetting at the limit.


Feb 04, 2012 at 03:26 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


AJSJones wrote:
A quick look at the German text says you can shift only 4mm or so with the two-slot holder (as you both used) but tilt is mostly OK - a bit of vignetting at the limit.


Here are my findings:

Tilting with the 17mm f/4L and this custom Lee holder set-up is not a problem. You can tilt almost all the way as long as there is no shift. There is a tiny vignetting at the maximum tilt angle which I probably never use it.

Shifting is pretty much handicapped though. With your camera in landscape orientation, you can only shift about 2mm horizontally or 4mm vertically for zero vignetting. After that you get a little faint vignetting effect. Also, you cannot tilt the holder diagonally either. So your filters must be vertically or horizontally.

I only used 2 slots on the Lee holder and followed the German site exactly. I'm still happy with the custom adapter because I will be able to share all my Lee filters with all my lenses using the same holder. The drawback is limited shifting with the 17mm f/4L.

Next I will try having only 1 slot and the 105mm filter adapter in the front (for a 105mm polarizer filter). I want to see if this creates vignetting @17mm. There are only one slim 105mm polarizer but it's really expensive +$400 (Heliopan). I will try using the B+W 105mm Kaeseman Circular Polarizing filter and see what happens. (about $200)


Edited on Feb 04, 2012 at 11:59 PM



Feb 04, 2012 at 06:07 PM
Mike K
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Fred Miranda wrote:
Next I will try having only 1 slot and the 105mm filter adapter in the front (for a 105mm polarizer filter). I want to see if this creates vignetting @17mm. There are only one slim 105mm polarizer but it's really expensive +$400 (Heliopan). I will try using the B+W 105mm Kaeseman Circular Polarizing filter and see what happens. (about $200)


Another, less expensive route, would be to use the Lee square CP. While your set up is constrained to vertical or horizontal already, the CP will either be vertically or horizontally constrained as well as you can only rotate it 90 deg. and reinsert it. Even with this limitation of potential sub optimal orientation, it does seem to work quite well and users are quite happy with its performance. discussion and examples in this long thread

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=883069&highlight=Lee+circular+polarizer
Mike K



Feb 04, 2012 at 10:38 PM
dolina
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Fred thanks for the post. I've been looking for front filter solution for the tse for a very long time.


Feb 05, 2012 at 12:52 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Update:
I shaved the edges of the Lee FK holder (It now looks more rounded). Now I don't get any vignetting when turning the holder. I also got a couple more mm free vignetting when shifting. I'm using the same custom holder with all my other landscape lenses (24TSEII and 90TSE)
Fred

Edited on May 08, 2012 at 11:27 PM



Feb 10, 2012 at 04:34 PM
thedigitalbean
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Did you use the 82mm regular holder or the 82mm WA (or slim) holder?


Feb 10, 2012 at 04:47 PM
Fr3d
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Maybe a stupid question, but if you cannot shift properly the lens can basically only be used like a regular 17mm
lens right? If so, would it not be more practical to use a WA prime/zoom with a standard filter adapter instead?



Feb 10, 2012 at 08:13 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


thedigitalbean wrote:
Did you use the 82mm regular holder or the 82mm WA (or slim) holder?


It must be the Lee 82mm Wide Angle adapter.



Feb 10, 2012 at 11:05 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Fr3d wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but if you cannot shift properly the lens can basically only be used like a regular 17mm
lens right? If so, would it not be more practical to use a WA prime/zoom with a standard filter adapter instead?


You can still "tilt" it without any restrictions. The 17mm is the best Canon has to offer at this range and therefore it's nice to have the option to use a ND/GND/Polarizer when needed. I don't see myself using it that much.
Just remember you won't be able to shift much using this adapter. You could go with the Colkin X-Pro instead for more shifting (up to 7mm I believe) but then you would need an entirely different and expensive filter system only for your 17TSE.
Fred



Feb 10, 2012 at 11:12 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


The interior hole in the Lee 82mm Wide Angle adapter is the big limiting factor for the approach described in this thread. It has an interior hole size of about 79 mm, and is limited to not being larger because it must provide exterior threads to fit into the inside of 82 mm lens threads. If the interior metal could be removed by machining the 82 mm Wide Angle adapter, the hole could be enlarged, but not by a lot, because the actual Lee filter holder mounting flange is about 89 mm, so you would need to leave a hole of about 88 mm. That is an improvement, but it would require special machining that is not easy.

But the Lee 82mm Wide Angle adapter is actually made from two metal parts, which look like they have been screwed together with thread lock or epoxy to hold them in place. If you could remove the inner metal part that provides the 82mm threads, it would open up the adapter to a hole size of about 86 mm. One possible way to do a removal is to use a small grinding tool and carefully remove one portion of the inner ring. If you can get one short portion removed, the rest may come out easily by prying, because of the gap you have made in the ring. This is similar to cutting the metal of a stuck filter to get the remaining ring out of the lens. In this case, it does not matter if you slightly damage the threads on the outer part, because you are not using them for this project. If cutting one short section out does not work, you can cut out a second section opposite from the first, and then the two parts should be much easier to remove. I must warn that I have not yet tried this, but it looks very practical to me. It is also a much easier do it your self project than machining.

You might think that other Lee adapters that fit larger thread sizes would have larger holes, but they are all limited by what hole you can fit through the standard Lee flange, so you get no more. As an example, the Lee 105mm lens adapter has an interior hole of about 79 mm, so that is actually slightly worse than the 82mm Wide Angle adapter. But if anyone were to consider machining an adapter to enlarge the hole, I would suggest you consider starting with the 105mm adapter, because it has much more metal in the outer part of the ring, which will make it much easier to hold in lathe jaws for machining out the inside. It does have a larger outer diameter, but that could be machined down to just the right outer size to fit the lens cap interface after the inside machining was done. Or you could leave the outer 105mm threads on the adapter, and glue the right step up ring to the lens cap to go from its size up to the 105mm threads.

So the extra 7 mm or 9mm of hole size would help. To get more, you need to go away from the Lee system for providing attachment and rotation. The combination of the Lee adapter with flange and the clip on Lee filter holder is what provides the rotational adjustment for the filters. And that rotation is even more important on a Canon TS-E lens, because the whole lens rotates on the camera to align the tilt and shift axis. One thought I have had in the past to provide rotation is to get a cheap 105mm polarizer, and remove the glass from it, and use it as the part that can rotate. That could give an interior hole of about 100 mm, which would likely be plenty for much larger shift amounts. But you then still need to attach the rotation part to the lens cap. A step up ring from a smaller size up to 105 mm may work to act as a part that could be glued to the lens cap part. Because the glue on location is further back, is can have a smaller inside diameter. The lens cap plastic is about 88 mm inside diameter, so trimming it back as far as possible before increasing the diameter beyond that would be the goal.

For using a 105mm polarizer metal for rotation, you still need to attach the filters to the front of it. The plastic of a Lee holder is one possibility, and it could be glued on to the front of the rotation metal. The hole inside the Lee holder has a diameter of about 96mm if the small fitting tabs were removed by grinding or filing. You could also enlarge the inside by making the hole more square rather than round, with the sides of the hole parallel to the filter holder slot fittings. The removed corners would often be in alignment with the corners of the rectangular image frame for the common use of the graduated neutral density filter alignment near to parallel to the horizon.

Another possible approach to attaching the filter holding slots is to use a different piece of plastic or metal, and attach it to the rotation metal. You would then attach the Lee filter holder edge guides to that alternate material using screws. You could potentially make something that has a square hole that is a full 100 mm or so, and would match the limitation of the 100 mm filters you are using. And if you really want to get carried away, you could design it to work with the even larger filters that the special Lee system uses for the Nikon wide angle zoom lens, but that means new expensive hard to get filters.

Getting the filter slots as close to the front element as possible without danger of touching is very important to provide the least potential of interfering with the image edges. So pay attention to any build up of an adapter system and try to achieve that goal. And if you do something with an enlarged center hole, you may now need to worry about a second filter that is further forward, and could become limiting. Consider only installing one filter slot on the front, rather than two or more. Lee has shorter screws available that can be used for that purpose.



Feb 11, 2012 at 01:47 PM
Yakim Peled
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Fred Miranda wrote:
You can still "tilt" it without any restrictions. The 17mm is the best Canon has to offer at this range and therefore it's nice to have the option to use a ND/GND/Polarizer when needed. I don't see myself using it that much.
Just remember you won't be able to shift much using this adapter. You could go with the Colkin X-Pro instead for more shifting (up to 7mm I believe) but then you would need an entirely different and expensive filter system only for your 17TSE.
Fred


I feel this is not the right approach. The 17/4 is a very expensive lens and a very unique one. Modifying it to enhance its capabilities (accepting filters) but OTOH limiting its native abilities is not the path I'd choose. If there is another solution which has fewer limitations I'd go for it even if it is a more expensive one.

Unless of course, that limitation (shift in this case) does not bother you as you never reach it.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Feb 11, 2012 at 02:59 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


The modification described by Fred is only to a lens cap. The whole adapter removes easily just like the original lens cap did, so you keep all the full features of the 17mm TS-E lens, and do not modify it. And if you start with a spare lens cap, which only costs about $40, then you still have the original cap to use.

Because the lens is optically very good, there are many situations where it is useful with no shift, but where a solid ND or graduated ND filter can be helpful. And tilt is still very usable with the described holder for shots where that is useful.

There really are no alternatives other than some form of building an adapter. If there were an alternative, I am sure many would choose it, but until something becomes available, we need to build our own or try to hand hold a filter. The expensive LEE Filters SW150 Filter Holder Kit is only made for the Nikon 14-24 zoom lens, but something like it would be nice for the 17 TS-E. But it takes special 150 mm wide filters, which are expensive and hard to get.



Feb 11, 2012 at 04:01 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


But the Lee 82mm Wide Angle adapter is actually made from two metal parts, which look like they have been screwed together with thread lock or epoxy to hold them in place. If you could remove the inner metal part that provides the 82mm threads, it would open up the adapter to a hole size of about 86 mm. One possible way to do a removal is to use a small grinding tool and carefully remove one portion of the inner ring. If you can get one short portion removed, the rest may come out easily by prying, because of the...Show more

That is indeed correct. The inner section of the adapter is what is limiting shifting. Gaining an extra 7mm by cutting it would be really helpful. I thought about this before the epoxy step.
I'm not sure if I can still do it though. I don't want to remove the adapter from the lens cap. (Unless there is an easy way)
Perhaps I could try to cut the metal without removing the adapter. I'm not a tool guy by any means but have a dremel.

Yakim, there is always going to be a shift restriction using any filter solution. If someone comes up with one, it will be ridiculously wide. As I wrote, I pretty much always use the shift movement with this lens therefore this adapter would be used only in very special occasions.



Feb 11, 2012 at 04:55 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


Update:
Roland, thanks for your description. You were right. I used my dremel to cut the inner metal up to the line divisor. Once it reached that point, the entire thread ring came off. I was very fast and easy. Now I just gained about 7mm opening!



Feb 11, 2012 at 05:43 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon 17mm f/4L TS-E Custom Filter Adapter


The extra 7 mm of diameter should in theory give about an additional 2.5 mm of available shift before problems show up, so consider that as you decide how to proceed.

Removing the adapter from the modified lens cap after it has been bonded on could be anything from easy to very hard, depending on how clean the surfaces were when you bonded it, and how much epoxy is actually holding things together. If it is "very easy", you probably do not want to use it that way in the field, so you might try flexing it and pulling on it to see if it comes apart. If it does, you can go for the modified metal ring. If it does not come apart easily, you will need to decide how much you want more shift. I would probably not recomend the removal of the inner metal ring while the lens cap part is still bonded on, but you may get away with it. The worst that may happen is that you damage the plastic cap portion, and need to get another one to modify.

I have noted that all the Lee Wide Angle adapters seem to have the same outer portion, with only the inner part being different for each adapter size. That means if you were modifying the adapter to remove the inner ring, you could start with any Wide Angle adapter that you have or that happened to be in stock. That had me realize that I have a Wide Angle adapter with a smaller size that I no longer need, so I will likely try to modify it, and keep my 82 mm Wide Angle adapters available for my two 82 mm wide angle lenses.

Update: I posted this while you were cutting your inner ring out, and missed the previous post. Thanks for being first at trying it, so that we all know it is fairly easy.



Feb 11, 2012 at 05:51 PM
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