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Archive 2012 · Peter Lik Comedy image

  
 
15Bit
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p.8 #1 · Peter Lik Comedy image


A question (from an ignorant amateur) regarding all those letters after his name, and the title "Master Photographer": These are presumably affiliations with professional bodies which have codes of conduct - would blatantly lying about an image not contravene these codes of conduct?

Personally i think it is a little disappointing that someone who makes the basic mistake of compositing a moon in front of clouds is actually allowed to call himself a "Master Photographer". If i made the equivalent mistake in my field of expertise i would be mortally embarrassed. Actually, i'd be out of a job too as integrity is the very foundation of what i do.

Oh, for those of you who like impossible but beautiful celestial images, i recommend www.digitalblasphemy.com.



Feb 08, 2012 at 12:13 PM
walteroicu812
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p.8 #2 · Peter Lik Comedy image


15Bit wrote:
...

Oh, for those of you who like impossible but beautiful celestial images, i recommend www.digitalblasphemy.com.


Great link. Thanks!



Feb 08, 2012 at 12:42 PM
Michael Sharps
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p.8 #3 · Peter Lik Comedy image


I am disappointed to learn that Lik was not honest with regard to how he made “Bella Luna” but it is not a barrier for me to enjoy his work inasmuch as I focus on the final product without regard to how it was done. Everyone is different.

My hunch is that people are not paying big money for his prints because of how the image was made, rather, I suspect they are paying for something that resonates with them strongly enough to justify the investment.

Threads like this tend to get some people fired up with a witch-hunt attitude and it sometimes carries over into their analysis of honest posts by ordinary people on this forum.

I recently posted a few photos from a trip to mono lake in this forum and the very first reply called one of my images a fake.
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1074851/0#10227443

I was disappointed that I had been put into a position to defend my work and to suffer the indignity of being accused of dishonesty. Even after providing my defense, the accuser never had the decency to respond. I certainly welcome constructive critique, but in this case, my work was judged a fake before any query had made regarding my method.

My experience with fellow photographers has largely been pleasant, and in many cases, it has been very fruitful to learn from, and inspire one another as we continually seek to improve our craft. However, I have also discovered that there are some photographers with intolerable egos that are bent on criticizing and attacking the methods of others whose work doesn’t meet their own artistic style, interpretation, and presentation.

I understand the disappointment of Lik’s dishonesty, but I don’t believe that this particular incident will become a bellwether of skepticism that will threaten our craft/trade.



Feb 08, 2012 at 02:33 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.8 #4 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Dustin Gent wrote:
I USED to be one of the people who tried to keep it as close to the RAW file as possible, but that is because i knew nothing about photoshop (still don't know that much ).


If you feel inclined to do so, maybe see my above comment on RAWs and manipulation. This is a popular misunderstanding/fallacy. To keep it "as close to the RAW as possible" means you would have a black photo w almost no detail whatsoever and no color! What you probably mean is you kept it as close to the generically massively manipulated file that your camera automatically photoshopped the heck out of to produce a JPEG which is a very bad standard as anything "real" or "untouched" or "accurate". Everyone manipulates the heck out of raw files (we have to). It really comes down to what we want to manipulate/alter/render them into (something more or less like what we saw).



Feb 08, 2012 at 03:56 PM
Mark Metternich
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p.8 #5 · Peter Lik Comedy image


I will say Pete's photo has inspired me to get out there and do more nightscapes. I also would love to see or do a similar photo but correctly and honestly via zoom and bracketing/blending.


Feb 08, 2012 at 04:00 PM
alatoo60
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p.8 #6 · Peter Lik Comedy image


I did some research on this image:
http://www.twanight.org/newTWAN/photos/3001054.jpg

EXIF info is published here.
According to the size ratio (given saguaros are about 3 m tall) and lunar angular diameter being ~ 30', the distance to saguaros should be about 1200 m. The DOF calculation for this data confirms that all objects located between 841 m to 2091 m will be sharp - but it does not extended to infinity, so per EXIF, Moon would be out of focus.
My other concern is 1/6 sec exposure at ISO 200 and f/16. Both from my experience, and from data from Moon exposure calculator, it will result in blurry Moon image.
Please correct me if I am wrong and there is a mistake in my calculation.

And this is one of mine - well, yes, a composite.
http://pics.livejournal.com/alatoo/pic/003k686d.jpg


Edited on Feb 08, 2012 at 04:09 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:07 PM
15Bit
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p.8 #7 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Mark Metternich wrote:
Not in relationship to anyone here, but GREAT POINT.

And as far as someone else's points above about Peter being called or marketing himself as a master photographer, insinuating that should be retracted... A persons mistakes do not necessarily deter from their skill sets (that he bases his title on). I'm not agreeing with his title, but just saying...


Just to clarify this - is the title "Master Photographer" one that is self-endowed or one awarded by some sort of trade body or organisation? Not being a professional i am not familiar with the various titles and such that a photographer can attain.

I would agree that that a persons mistakes do not necessarily detract from their skills (and i would go on record here as saying that Peter is clearly a better photographer than i will ever be), but their mistakes can rightly impact their titles and accreditations, if those have any value whatsoever. Were my father, to take just one example, to make a "mistake" which could be construed as fraud in the processing of the local church accounts he would lose his banking accreditation and with it quite possibly the very generous pension the receives from a career in banking.

I would draw your attention to the following section from the Royal Photographic Society Distinctions Handbook. Emphasis added by me:

--------------------------------------------------------------
D5 RESPONSIBILITY OF FELLOWS

The Fellowship is The Society’s highest Distinction and, as such, makes a statement about you and your achievement. As a Fellow, you have a continuing commitment to maintain the highest level of photographic excellence as well as conducting your photography to the highest ethical standard. As a representative of The Society you are expected to play a full and meaningful role in promoting good photographic practice.
--------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT - Apologies Mark: you were obviously editing whilst i was quoting you. I'm going to let the question stand though, as it is one i am genuinely curious about.



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:08 PM
D. von Briesen
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p.8 #8 · Peter Lik Comedy image


something like this mark?

http://ic2.pbase.com/o2/10/364410/1/124121299.6elZfVNW._Q8V5257.jpg


all but the two hikers required absolutely perfect planning and execution.

but it's the wondrous serendipity of the hikers sitting, in their own private moment, holding hands, and watching the same moon as me, that makes this one of the most magic singular 'timeless moments' (thanks, David Muench) I've been fortunate to capture.

i guess in the long run there are lies, damnable lies, and Mr. Lik's version of his artistic 'truth.'

That he's laughing his way to the bank, that he probably loves this kind of endless controversy about his questionable ethics, that it's likely even part of a calculated 'business' plan to achieve still greater fame & fortune (although, as he used to note in the second line of his bio, he places little stock in such things as his description of himself, in line one of that same bio, as the "most important landscape photographer on the planet!!"), reveals to me a man in thrall to his monetary success, his own self importance and whose images leave me flat and without connection.

for me, and just me, i simply can't connect with his manufactured moments; moments that are, in fact, not moments at all. even if he spoke the truth, such is his 'art' that all i can see is Peter the profiteer, the marketing genius, the privately-held corporate photography IPO waiting to happen. Jump aboard and grab a limited edition, keep it wrapped tightly next to your Barbies and your Barry Bonds first editions, and watch the value sky rocket.

that said, one has to wonder if all that bullshit masks his own insecurity about his work; one would think he's good enough, famous enough, successful enough that he could just tell the truth and still sell all he wants.

Or would that hurt sales?

Photographer or corporate Kincaid? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and people's reactions to Lik tell me as much about them as it does about Lik.

Recognizing too, that it reveals much about me to you. Money is nice; recognition important and self-sustaining; but the beauty of nature, in my eyes and to yours thru what i work to capture, has always been the most important thing.

The capture of timeless magic moments, by their very nature, requires rigid artistic honesty. the masterful work of those artists that let this kind of integrity inform their creativity, resonates always. some are considered the very best at the art form; still others, like so many on this forum, are quietly passionate about the beauty nature offers.

Lik leaves me cold & others gladden my heart. Thanks.



Feb 08, 2012 at 05:04 PM
PKuglin
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p.8 #9 · Peter Lik Comedy image


+1 and well stated Mr. von Briesen.

That he's laughing his way to the bank, that he probably loves this kind of endless controversy about his questionable ethics, that it's likely even part of a calculated 'business' plan to achieve still greater fame & fortune (although, as he used to note in the second line of his bio, he places little stock in such things as his description of himself, in line one of that same bio, as the "most important landscape photographer on the planet!!"), reveals to me a man in thrall to his monetary success, his own self importance and whose images leave me flat and...Show more



Feb 08, 2012 at 06:10 PM
Raven Falls
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p.8 #10 · Peter Lik Comedy image


15Bit wrote:
Just to clarify this - is the title "Master Photographer" one that is self-endowed or one awarded by some sort of trade body or organisation? Not being a professional i am not familiar with the various titles and such that a photographer can attain.


It's completely self-awarded. There are no photographic guilds that would grant such a title. He could call himself "Peter Lik, King of Photographers" if he wanted.

A few years ago, I was considering having a little fun with Thomas Kinkade's self-description, and starting to list myself as "James David Walley, Photographer of Light (tm)" -- the joke being, of course, that what else does anyone photograph except light? In the end, I decided that I didn't want to be thought of in the same category as Kinkade, even as a joke.



Feb 09, 2012 at 02:58 AM
Bandi
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p.8 #11 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Raven Falls wrote:
It's completely self-awarded. There are no photographic guilds that would grant such a title. He could call himself "Peter Lik, King of Photographers" if he wanted.

A few years ago, I was considering having a little fun with Thomas Kinkade's self-description, and starting to list myself as "James David Walley, Photographer of Light (tm)" -- the joke being, of course, that what else does anyone photograph except light? In the end, I decided that I didn't want to be thought of in the same category as Kinkade, even as a joke.


Actually, the "Master of Photography" status comes from the AIPP (Australian institute of professional photographers... Lik is an aussie after all), of which Lik is a recipient.



Feb 09, 2012 at 03:10 AM
Raven Falls
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p.8 #12 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Bandi wrote:
Actually, the "Master of Photography" status comes from the AIPP (Australian institute of professional photographers... Lik is an aussie after all), of which Lik is a recipient.


Now, that's interesting...I wonder if the AIPP has any code of professional conduct?




Feb 09, 2012 at 03:55 AM
Mark2Mark
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p.8 #13 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Raven Falls wrote:
Now, that's interesting...I wonder if the AIPP has any code of professional conduct?



My bold... I highlighted point 23, as I thought one of Peter's assistants may have written the blurb to help sell the photo, but it seems he would still be responsible if that were the case.

AIPP Code of Ethics
The AIPP Code of Ethics is one of the key differentiators between members of the institute and non members.
All membership categories of the AIPP are bound by the code of ethics.
General Matters

1. I agree to be bound by the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the Australian Institute of Professional Photography (AIPP) and abide by the regulations and guidelines of the AIPP as set down from time to time.

2. I will abide by this Code of Ethics of the AIPP and recognise the authority of the AIPP Compliance Committee in all matters relating to the interpretation and enforcement of this code.

3. I shall at all times present myself; my photography and photographic services, in such manner as will uphold and dignify my professional status and the reputation of the Institute.

4. I will deal with all users of photography and the public with honesty and integrity. I shall exercise reasonable skill, care and diligence in the discharge of my duties, giving full consideration to the requirements of the client.

5. I will not use any marketing or competitive practice, which violates any Federal or State statute or any decision of a Federal or State court.

6. I shall ensure that advertisements and other public announcements with which my name is associated are not such as would, in the opinion of the Board, bring the Institute into disrepute. I shall ensure that all advertisements or public announcements mentioned comply with the guidelines issued from time to time by the Board.

7. I shall ensure that in conjunction with my name only such designatory letters or other descriptions to which I am entitled are used. (Only businesses in which all employees are members of the AIPP may use “Members of the AIPP” after the business name.

Market Related Matters

8. I shall, if engaged in the fields of wedding and/or portrait photography, allow the client three working days, after the placement of an order or the signing of a contract, during which time the client may change without penalty the extent of such order or contract.

9. I will not utilise any form of "high pressure‟ selling tactics to book clients or influence clients to place orders.

10. I will reveal all material facts; avoid concealment of information and refrain from the use of innuendoes in advertising and selling that might cause consumers to be misled, so that the truth about services of products may be fully understood. I will provide a complete and comprehensive written price list outlining my services and products prior to undertaking any photographic assignment.

11. I will fulfil all contractual obligations, offer reasonable warranty of products and services, and perform on such warranty without hesitation, where claims are justified. I will ensure that all wedding photography transactions, including the production of albums, does not take more than three months from the date of order, or a firm delivery date be agreed in writing at the contract stage.

12. I will advertise and sell the merits of my services and products honestly and undertake only assignments that my firm or I can reasonably expect to complete with professional competence.

13. I will refer the client to another suitably qualified and ethical photographer who can best fulfil the client’s needs if my organisation or I cannot undertake the work.

14. I will not commit any acts that will discredit the profession and I will refrain from degrading competitors.

15. I will not concurrently engage in any business or occupation, which impairs my rendering of professional image making services.

16. I shall not offer or accept a photograph for reproduction or accept a reproduction fee in respect of any photograph for which I do not own the copyright, without the express permission of the owner of the copyright.

17. I will refund all monies in cases of genuine client hardship and within the period of six months before the date of a booking. A small fee may be retained to cover administrative expenses.

18. I will ensure that any matter referring to copyright is underlined on contracts (or printed in bold type in any new contracts), and that reasonable usage rights for the studio be contractually established at the time of the original contract, and that these rights extend to an agreed level of promotion for the studio, including entry into professional competitions and exhibitions.

19. I acknowledge that every client entering into a contract with an AIPP member is entitled to receive a copy of the Code of Ethics.

Member Related Matters

20. In whatever capacity I am engaged I shall act in a just and faithful manner towards clients, employers, and employees; towards others with which my work is connected, and towards other members of the AIPP.

21. I will not divulge any confidential information acquired by me during the course of my professional duties to any party.

22. I understand that if I wilfully or knowingly condone, or am party to any act perpetrated by others, which contravenes this code, then I shall be as equally responsible as if I had committed such a breach on my own account.

23. I will be responsible for the conduct and performance of any person employed or sub-contracted by me.

Educational Matters

24. I will actively support and where possible assist in the education of all interested persons and the general public in the art and science of professional photography.

25. I will strive at all times to upgrade and improve my knowledge and skills in the profession of photography and related areas.



Feb 09, 2012 at 04:29 AM
fixedgearmike
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p.8 #14 · Peter Lik Comedy image


damn, I keep opening this thread to see if Peter Lik has posted any defence... I wonder if he knows about it? (I doubt if he cares, but it'd be fun to hear from him!)


Feb 09, 2012 at 07:33 AM
kurt765
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p.8 #15 · Peter Lik Comedy image


fixedgearmike wrote:
damn, I keep opening this thread to see if Peter Lik has posted any defence... I wonder if he knows about it? (I doubt if he cares, but it'd be fun to hear from him!)


Perhaps he's white-knuckled, holding the wacom pen in front of an enormous computer monitor, waiting for the perfect conditions to come up with a new creation that has eluded him all the time that he was foolishly actually trying to capture landscapes that were actually possible.



Feb 09, 2012 at 09:30 AM
KAREL WOLF
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p.8 #16 · Peter Lik Comedy image


fixedgearmike wrote:
damn, I keep opening this thread to see if Peter Lik has posted any defence... I wonder if he knows about it? (I doubt if he cares, but it'd be fun to hear from him!)


I'am sure he knows about this thread....by now someone has surely informed him about it.....i am sure he cares....i am sure he will not reply and by doing so risking even more critique. I even bet that he does not find this thread "ROOOOAAARING" (quote P.Lik ).



Feb 09, 2012 at 09:36 AM
teked
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p.8 #17 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Thought I'd add one of my own. Two elements of truth making for one falsehood.

Here is an original: (Has integrity, but probably wouldn't sell.)
http://tekedsolutions.com/photos/jasper_pulaski/shc_01.jpg

Here is a fix: (One that might sell)
http://tekedsolutions.com/photos/jasper_pulaski/moonwalker_01.jpg

At least the concept has some authenticity. Moon shot used in the second image was taken immediately after the bird passed by.

Cheers, All.
Ed



Feb 09, 2012 at 10:05 AM
andyjaggy82
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p.8 #18 · Peter Lik Comedy image


I doubt he cares, if I was making millions off of my photos I wouldn't care what a bunch of people on some random forum were saying.


Feb 09, 2012 at 11:47 AM
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p.8 #19 · Peter Lik Comedy image


chez wrote:
Dan, I don't lie in general. I don't agree with that part of Lik's marketing...but all other aspects I do admire including his photography skills and sales skills.

What about you Dan...have you ever lied or stretched the truth regarding your photography? Are you pure...or maybe a little tainted? If you did exaggerate a little, when does it make it too much.? Where is this sliding scale?


I don't believe I have ever lied about a photograph of mine. As I wrote earlier, I'm willing to describe techniques that I use to make my photographs, including post-processing. (I write a couple paragraphs about each photograph that I post at my blog daily: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/, and I'm happy to answer aesthetic and technical questions about them that you or others might have.)

I have some photographs that involve intentionally significant departures from _reality_ that I label as imaginary landscapes so as to differentiate them from more believable photographs.

And I have never lied to a client of mine about the nature of a photograph that they licensed or purchased, nor have I intentionally misled anyone about the nature of a photograph of mine.

As to the question of "purity," I'm pure me. :-)

Does that answer your question?

Dan

BTW: I note that you still have not directly answered the question about whether or not you would lie to a client...

Imaginary landscape:
http://gdanmitchell.com/gallery/d/6118-3/PanamintMorningImaginaryLandscapeBW20120103.jpg



Feb 09, 2012 at 11:49 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.8 #20 · Peter Lik Comedy image


Mark Metternich wrote:
If you feel inclined to do so, maybe see my above comment on RAWs and manipulation. This is a popular misunderstanding/fallacy. To keep it "as close to the RAW as possible" means you would have a black photo w almost no detail whatsoever and no color! What you probably mean is you kept it as close to the generically massively manipulated file that your camera automatically photoshopped the heck out of to produce a JPEG which is a very bad standard as anything "real" or "untouched" or "accurate". Everyone manipulates the heck out of raw files (we have to).
...Show more

Mark, good point. There are still folks here who think the question is about whether or not it is OK to post-process or even to "manipulate" photographs. That isn't the question.

As you point out, and in many ways beyond what you mention in your post here, it is literally impossible for a photograph to be "real" in the objective sense, and every photograph is subjective.

There is nothing "wrong" with pasting a giant moon, or a kangaroo, or mother goose, or fairies and unicorns into a photograph of your back yard, the Utah mountains, the streets of New York, etc. But should one present the claim that he/she was able to capture the extraordinary photograph of the giant moon, kangaroo, goose, fairies, and unicorns in a photograph because only he/she was able to endure the tremendous difficulties of locating this special place and finding this unusual conjunction of elements in the field and only he/she was able to envision such an image and that he/she was struck dumb with awe while observing the monumental scene unfold...

... we have something entirely different to think about, don't we? :-)

And to D. von Briesen, well said. +1...

By the way, last night I was photographing migratory birds in the California Central Valley at and just after sunset. At one point we were truly astounded (yes, the blood raced and we perhaps began to tremble) when an absolutely incredible gigantic flock of Ross's geese appeared far of in the western dusk sky, approached, and gradually grew to literally fill the entire sky from horizon to horizon. The visual appearance of this many wild birds is utterly stunning, but accompanied by their thousands of voices as they passed overhead it is almost overwhelming at times. Frankly, I had never seen this many wild birds in such close proximity before. At times I simply left my camera on the tripod, stood back, and took it in.

Edited on Feb 09, 2012 at 12:25 PM · View previous versions



Feb 09, 2012 at 12:03 PM
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