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Archive 2012 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees

  
 
justruss
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p.1 #1 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I'm headed to a location, at around 10,000 feet above sea level, on a glacier, where I'll be spending 24hrs at sub-zero temperatures. Will have winter clothing, and a day-bag, and will sleep in a sleeping bag in a space that is ~32 degrees F (0 C), in an expedition sleeping bag. I will be doing light shooting in temps ranging from 32 F to 0 F during the time I'm not sleeping.

Questions: Has anyone done this with a camera? Best way to store the camera over night (in sleeping bag or in day bag outside)? Any risk of damaging the camera with prolonged freezing exposure?

I've shot in a LOT of conditions, from tropics to sub-zero (Alps), sometimes shooting all day or for hours at a time multiple days in a row. But always staying in a normal, room-temp place at night. I know how to work with a camera in cold conditions in general (batteries/warmth, condensation); hell, next month, for a different assignment, I'm headed above the Arctic circle (but I'll be sleeping in a normal place).

I've never spent 24 hrs in sub-freezing temps (with a camera), and I'm not sure if there's any risk to my gear.

Would love your input if you have similar experience.




Jan 26, 2012 at 05:25 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I figure I'll get one of these if I ever get back into serious climbing or back country trekking, especially at high altitude in the winter ...

http://cameraquest.com/voigtl_bessa_iii_wide.htm
http://cameraquest.com/voigtl_bessa_iii.htm

Of course, I can't figure out where the CF card goes...



Jan 26, 2012 at 08:50 PM
Taoguy
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p.1 #3 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I've spent some time in extended cold, equipment always suffers in one way or another. If you expect to be in temps between 0 (F) and +32 (F) you should really be quite warm once you acclimate. My batteries worked better than any I have used in the past. I use the D3s and they lasted 2+ days being exposed 8 to 10 hrs a day. BTW temps were 0 to -25 F. My zoom lens ring rotated very slow after a few hours, many times I just shot whatever mm it was set at I didn't want to damage anything. (Main zoom was 200-400)

Primes had no problem. You need some way to control potential moisture going from different temps however if you are staying below 32 F 95% of the time it may not be an issue. I use larger resealable bags from a company called Uline. They come in various sizes. Several days I would leave the lens & body outside over night, remove the battery & cards, I take enough cards so I do not need to download until I am in reasonable temps.

I'd test my equipment on your next trip, my main concern was camera batteries, I took 3 for each body on my last trip and never had an issue there. If possible next month you should be able to get a good idea of how your batteries hold up.

It goes without saying if you get your equipment wet outside while in the conditions you describe it's going to freeze up. You can PM me if you have any further questions I might be able to help you with.

Cheers
Gerard

Edited on Jan 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM · View previous versions



Jan 26, 2012 at 09:13 PM
Taoguy
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p.1 #4 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


BTW - I have a 5DMKII and it wouldn't be my first choice for this trip. Body is not designed for this IMO.

Gerard



Jan 26, 2012 at 09:17 PM
justruss
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p.1 #5 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Taoguy wrote:
I've spent some time in extended cold, equipment always suffers in one way or another. If you expect to be in temps between 0 (F) and +32 (F) you should really be quite warm once you acclimate. My batteries worked better than any I have used in the past. I use the D3s and they lasted 2+ days being exposed 8 to 10 hrs a day. BTW temps were 0 to -25 F. My zoom lens ring rotated very slow after a few hours, many times I just shot whatever mm it was set at I didn't want to damage
...Show more

Thanks Gerard.

I'm not really concerned about my coldness, or the general shooting in the cold (I've shot and been in much colder temps than this). And I've got a good sense of how my batteries hold up in the cold.

But I have no experience with my camera body/lenses spending the day, the night, and the following day "exposed" to the cold. My choices seem to be put them in my day-bag and leave that beside me during the night (~0 F), or put the camera/lenses in the expedition sleeping bag I'm in during the night (but the temps/humidity may result in condensation issues in the morning).

I think I'm leaning towards taking CF cards and batteries out, and keeping them with me in a small pouch in the sleeping bag-- and leaving the camera and two extra lenses in my day-bag over night (they'll get and stay cold).

My main concern is somehow damaging my gear.

Sadly, the 5Dmk2 is what I have to work with (no 1-series sealed gear for me, mainly out of concern for size). Happily, I only shoot primes, and half of them are MF-- so less complex lens designs and no zooming-type moving parts.







Jan 27, 2012 at 03:49 AM
justruss
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p.1 #6 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I wonder if putting the camera + lenses in a dry-bag over night would be wise-- instead of a normal day-bag?


Jan 27, 2012 at 03:50 AM
justruss
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p.1 #7 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


jcolwell wrote:
I figure I'll get one of these if I ever get back into serious climbing or back country trekking, especially at high altitude in the winter ...

http://cameraquest.com/voigtl_bessa_iii_wide.htm
http://cameraquest.com/voigtl_bessa_iii.htm

Of course, I can't figure out where the CF card goes...


Nice. Now if I only had $3K burning a hole in my pocket...

Wouldn't mind a Mamiya 7 II for this either, with one of the wider lenses. Same problem though... where's the CF card go?



Jan 27, 2012 at 03:55 AM
Taoguy
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p.1 #8 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Russ,

I would be concerned with moisture only if you are taking your gear into 30 to 40 degree warmer weather. When I have winter camped in my tent, temps were the same inside as outside, there was no additional heat in the tent other than sleeping bags. So my gear was fine. If you have been in cold weather before you'll do fine.

Should you encounter weather conditions where there is moisture in form or another you really have to protect you 5DMKII, as it has no weather sealing or very little if I recall. As long as the temps remain 30 F or lower you should be alright.

I have never exposed my 5DMKII to weather conditions like what you are going into. Besides weather issues I think your main concern will be battery life. Will you have access to power? If not how long will you be out? Make a decision based on your battery life while on your first trip. In the early days of digital batteries were very poor, so I made sure the LCD screen was off if possible. Even then in cold weather batteries would only last a few hrs.

As far as damaging your equipment, condensation will occur from in and out of warm/cold temps. I did place my equipment in a dry bag overnight, left open slightly, (probably made no difference) and placed so it was protected from snow fall entering the bag. I only brush or air blow my lens, not your breath, seen that a few times as well. It is easy to forget and just blow off the snow with your breath, not good.

On my last trip into the Arctic with a group there were several battery failures, mainly on prosumer type cameras and two people had their camera freeze up, where nothing worked. The two that froze were brand new cameras, we could not get them going even after staying inside for a couple days. I think human error was the main culprit in this case. We were in temps -25 F outside and +45F inside, they would shoot outside for 30 minutes and go inside to warm up, put their equipment in a bag, taking it inside. My experience is it takes several hours for the camera body to come up to room temp so when they took the camera back outside after 30 minutes it froze up. Some froze in less than a minute, it was a 70 degree swing, moisture freezes. If your temps don't have that big change condensation is not a problem other than when it falls from the sky.

I have never had this happen ( Lucky ). I have seen people spend a ton of $ on a trip only to have their camera fail for various reasons. Puts a damper on the rest of trip. The Pro series bodies, either Canon/Nikon and others are built much better today for these conditions. I've wondered about static electricity in cold weather with digital, never had any issues to date.

If you are going just for the photography have a back up plan IMO. Planning is half the trip, right? As far as ruining your equipment, it can happen, just try to take those precautions to protect it as best you can. Keep your spare batteries in your pockets close to your body, when I shot w/MKIIN battery might make 3 or 4 hrs, I don't know about the new 1 Series Canon's today but the Nikon D3s batteries have an amazing cold weather life cycle. I place my used CF cards in a small case I have and then in a sealed baggy type plastic bag.

If you don't have a backup body, I'd get one/rent one or I'd expect Murphy's Law to apply for sure.

The nice thing about extreme cold weather photography is that most people don't like the cold so you'll have that world pretty much to yourself.

Good shooting.
Gerard



Jan 27, 2012 at 08:48 AM
justruss
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p.1 #9 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Many thanks Gerard.

I'll probably use my dry bag for the overnight.

R



Jan 27, 2012 at 01:49 PM
Ruahrc
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p.1 #10 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


If anything you'll be getting superior high ISO performance because the sensor is cold


Jan 27, 2012 at 06:12 PM
C Parish
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p.1 #11 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I just skimmed this post, so my coments may already be noted, but here goes.

I would not put the camera in the sleeping bag with you, even in a drybag.

The moisture your body emits will get into the camera, and cause problems the next day.

Just leave it out in a bag for protection from the elements.

If it is really cold you can p[ut the batteries in your sleeping bag with you to keep them from draining in sever cold.

I have had my camera out in -30 degrees C for full days, but I haven't done the overnight thing, but these are some of the steps I wuld follow.

Cheers



Jan 28, 2012 at 08:29 AM
sjms
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p.1 #12 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


i have spent a bit of time in the cold too. C. Parish gives excellent advice. i have spent a good deal of my younger days at altitude and somewhat extreme cold weather in various locations on the planet. in all situations where extended time was spent in the real cold the gear was in a location that was tempwise at or close to the temp/humidity we were shooting in.

http://i.pbase.com/g1/89/44489/2/105946304.rdVuoyoo.jpg



Jan 28, 2012 at 08:50 AM
runamuck
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p.1 #13 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


If your camera handles a couple of hours, it will handle several days in the cold. As others have stated, the batteries will be the big problem.

Film will get brittle and possibly break in extreme cold.




Jan 29, 2012 at 05:56 PM
Sp12
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p.1 #14 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Assuming you have a 1D you'll have no issues. I've had no temptation to test other bodies in those sort of conditions.


Jan 29, 2012 at 05:59 PM
Mile High
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p.1 #15 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees



Keep batteries near your body, when not in use to prolong their life. Store camera and lenses in a protective bag (not a dry bag), but don't try to warm them too much or you'll have condensation problems in the morning.
Hope your Expedition Sleeping Bag won't be too warm for this situation.



Jan 30, 2012 at 07:56 PM
sjms
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p.1 #16 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


runamuck wrote:
If your camera handles a couple of hours, it will handle several days in the cold. As others have stated, the batteries will be the big problem.

Film will get brittle and possibly break in extreme cold.



i have shot quite a bit in subzero temps. since the film has been a polyester material all of my life shooting the tearing issue was minimized. the biggest problem was static charges over the film during even slow hand winding. these left lightning bolt markings on the film itself more then a few times. hadn't torn a roll though.



Feb 01, 2012 at 06:30 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #17 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


I broke one roll. It was way subzero. During one of those really brutal winters we had in Chicago during the 1970s. -12 was too cold for the Kodak film. It could have been the cheap camera, too.


Feb 02, 2012 at 07:23 PM
justruss
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p.1 #18 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Well, folks, I'm back. It was ~36 hrs at ~10,000 ft, and the night hit -20 F (-30 C). Battery life, as expected (this isn't the first time I've shot in these temps), was super short. Left the camera in a normal backpack during the night. No problems to report w/ 5Dmk2 and 35L and Tammy SP 17mm f/3.5.

Next step is heading above the Arctic Circle for a week in <three weeks. Hoping for clear sky and sun-spot activity.... and figuring out how to squeeze out enough battery life for some time lapse at night...



Feb 04, 2012 at 07:13 AM
Taoguy
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p.1 #19 · 24 hours, continuously, at <32 degrees


Good to hear your trial run went well. As far extending battery power, simplest solution for the 5DMKII that I know is numbers, take more than you think you'll need. A battery a day might keep the cold in check, can always sell the batteries later to recover some of your cost.

Good luck on your Arctic adventure.

Gerard



Feb 04, 2012 at 10:22 PM





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