p.13 #1 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
gdanmitchell wrote:
However, don't forget that lp/mm resolution values on smaller sensors result in lower lp/picture width than you would get from the same lp/mm on a larger sensor camera.
Then... curious80 replied:
The numbers quoted by photozone are not lp/mm, they are lp/picture height, so the larger sensor size is already accounted for.
Really? That would be even worse then. Much worse. If you really are only getting something like 2000+ line pairs per picture height, you are not getting very good detail at all. And you'd also be calculating something that involves the sensor and not just the lens.
p.13 #2 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
gdanmitchell wrote:
Then...
Really? That would be even worse then. Much worse. If you really are only getting something like 2000+ line pairs per picture height, you are not getting very good detail at all. And you'd also be calculating something that involves the sensor and not just the lens.
I suspect the numbers you quoted must be lp/mm.
Dan
A correction - Photozone number is actually Lines/PictureHeight (or what they call LineWidths/PH). It is not LinePairs/PH.
2000 lp/mm would be waaaaaay more than what a 15MP sensor can resolve
For the 15MP 50D sensor the theoretical maximum is around 3168 lines per pictures height, because obviously it cannot capture more lines than number of vertical pixels. For the 12MP GF1 sensor the maximum theoretical limit is 3000 lines / PH thanks to its "more vertical" aspect ratio.
p.13 #3 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
curious80 wrote:
But who says that being "pocketable" is the only goal for a small camera .
I didn't. Did you? I am actually considering a Fuji X100 because of the high flash sync speeds (1/1000th or even 1/4000th). Opens up a lot of creative possibilities when mixing strobes and ambient. But I think it is too expensive for what it is.
And btw there is nothing wrong with pancakes, they are good optics - not L lenses but good nevertheless - I would rate my Pana 20mm as on par with my Nikon 35mm 1.8 and a bit better than the Canon 35mm f2 (on APS-C). And much better than the DSLR kit lenses.
I never said there was something wrong with pancakes, or alt glass for that matter. My only point was that you'll be limited to using those if you want the EVIL camera to be pocketable. Some may want to use zoom lenses. My arguments were about size, not IQ per se. But I overlooked the fact that some have very big pockets. But let's not get into that discussion once again, shall we?
p.13 #4 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
thw2 wrote:
c) NEX and X-pro1: show me the lenses
.
All the fun with NEX is with rangefinder lenses. Although they are for FF format, they are what EF-S lenses never was and never will be: Compact primes, also wide angle, in a variety of apertures and quality levels.
If you want fun and compactness: Voigtländer M
If you want to step up on certain aspect of the quality: Zeiss ZM
p.13 #6 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
I never said there was something wrong with pancakes, or alt glass for that matter. My only point was that you'll be limited to using those if you want the EVIL camera to be pocketable. Some may want to use zoom lenses. My arguments were about size, not IQ per se. But I overlooked the fact that some have very big pockets. But let's not get into that discussion once again, shall we?
Or, maybe your pockets are just all very small
But you're right, it's getting repetitve saying the pockets of my jackets are not all big. (It does make me wonder, though, if you have actually held or used a NEX?)
That issue aside, the broader point that I think is getting garbled is that I have not seen anyone in this thread who uses a mirrorless camera saying they think it should replace a DSLR kit, and then they point out the shortcomings of mirrorless systems compared to DSLRs. As far as I can tell, those of us offering positive opinions on mirrorless systems in this thread are using these cameras in addition to DSLR systems, not as replacements.
Yes, if I want the smallest size possible, I will use my NEX with pancakes and small primes. "Aha!" the critics say, "the NEX system is limiting!" On the contrary, I have more degrees of freedom in my choices of what to carry with me. When I am carrying the NEX with me, it's not because I am out on a photoshoot where I need the extensive capabilities and lens range of my entire DSLR system. When I need or want the DSLR system, I take it. No limitations at all.
p.13 #8 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
artd wrote:
Or, maybe your pockets are just all very small
But you're right, it's getting repetitve saying the pockets of my jackets are not all big. (It does make me wonder, though, if you have actually held or used a NEX?)
That issue aside, the broader point that I think is getting garbled is that I have not seen anyone in this thread who uses a mirrorless camera saying they think it should replace a DSLR kit, and then they point out the shortcomings of mirrorless systems compared to DSLRs. As far as I can tell, those of us offering positive opinions on mirrorless systems in this thread are using these cameras in addition to DSLR systems, not as replacements.
Yes, if I want the smallest size possible, I will use my NEX with pancakes and small primes. "Aha!" the critics say, "the NEX system is limiting!" On the contrary, I have more degrees of freedom in my choices of what to carry with me. When I am carrying the NEX with me, it's not because I am out on a photoshoot where I need the extensive capabilities and lens range of my entire DSLR system. When I need or want the DSLR system, I take it. No limitations at all....Show more →
On numerous occasions I have held and tested EVIL cameras of different brands. I did some research. Sellers trying me to convince that it's main advantage is it's size. But whatever. They need arguments to sell their stuff.
Overall I agree... every system has it's place based on its weaknesses and strengths
Size isn't a benefit for me when it comes to EVIL systems because of the practical implications. Again, YMMV
p.13 #9 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
IIRC I read somewhere using 1/4000th sync speed with strobes. But 1/2000th is better than 1/200th any day. Cheers
Well...
The 1/2000 sec synch speed is from the X100 manual, for their "Super-Intelligent Flash". Maybe it can synch at 1/4000 sec for a less intelligent, but more agile strobe.
p.13 #10 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
Daan B wrote:
What is with this obsession of people wanting to put their cameras into their pockets
People like me that carry two bodies during a shoot. For HS seniors (almost always shooting outdoors) I carry two 5d bodies with prime lenses. Recently switched one of the 5d's to a 1dmkiii since I am not a fan of the 5d focus system with fast primes.
Starting to get heavy...
Last couple of sessions I went out with the 5dmkii/85L, and an x100 around my neck. Quite liberating really, I am enjoying the combo. I think we are not far from one of these little cams being full frame (and not in M9 price range), then my days of twin DSLR's will probably be over.
p.13 #11 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
jcolwell wrote:
Well...
The 1/2000 sec synch speed is from the X100 manual, for their "Super-Intelligent Flash". Maybe it can synch at 1/4000 sec for a less intelligent, but more agile strobe.
p.13 #12 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
jameshays wrote:
People like me that carry two bodies during a shoot. For HS seniors (almost always shooting outdoors) I carry two 5d bodies with prime lenses. Recently switched one of the 5d's to a 1dmkiii since I am not a fan of the 5d focus system with fast primes.
Starting to get heavy...
Last couple of sessions I went out with the 5dmkii/85L, and an x100 around my neck. Quite liberating really, I am enjoying the combo. I think we are not far from one of these little cams being full frame (and not in M9 price range), then my days of twin DSLR's will probably be over....Show more →
That would be a nice approach. I always like to have a two camera set-up with different lenses, but with DSLR's it can get tiresome. A 5D II + 70-200 f/2.8L say and a NEX + 24/35 f/1.4 would be nice and hardly add much weight to the kit.
p.13 #13 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
I've used the X100 alongside a 1DIV with 50L/80L. It's a nice combination, but the 1DIV is big and loud. I look forward to using the X100 and X-Pro 1 with 35/1.4 and 60/2.4, for those intimate occasions where quiet cameras are appropriate.
p.13 #14 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
jcowell,
How do you feel working with two different sets of software, focusing systems, and menus? Does it get tough, or do you have a pretty good work-flow down?
p.13 #15 · Mirrorless craze - Am I missing something?
photoomaha wrote:
jcowell,
How do you feel working with two different sets of software, focusing systems, and menus? Does it get tough, or do you have a pretty good work-flow down?
Hi Dave,
I use PS CS5 for all of my post-processing, so it's no sweat. Everything's a breeze since I gave up scanning medium format film in 2007.
As far as different cameras go, it just takes a bit of learning, and picking up the right gear for the right task. For example, I use the 1DIV with 500/4L IS for discreet street scenes, and the X100 for BIF. ...wait a minute, maybe that's backwards.
