sebboh wrote:
it's basically a gh2 with IBIS and cleaner lines.
Everybody uses cameras a different way, but for me: one wheel on the thumb, one on the shutter finger. One for aperture, the other for ev comp. Or aperture and shutter speed.
The push wheel on the panasonics drives me crazy.
Likewise, how dumb is to have 2 on the thumb as in the nex 7? Try changing aperture and shutter speed simultaneously :-)
We are being told by marketing guys what matters and what not; but priorities are different for each one of us.
Just because the GH2 and the E-M5 share the same size sensor, have a built in VF and are similar size, does not mean they work equally well in my hands.
d_chiesa wrote:
Everybody uses cameras a different way, but for me: one wheel on the thumb, one on the shutter finger. One for aperture, the other for ev comp. Or aperture and shutter speed.
The push wheel on the panasonics drives me crazy.
Likewise, how dumb is to have 2 on the thumb as in the nex 7? Try changing aperture and shutter speed simultaneously :-)
We are being told by marketing guys what matters and what not; but priorities are different for each one of us.
Just because the GH2 and the E-M5 share the same size sensor, have a built in VF and are similar size, does not mean they work equally well in my hands. ...Show more →
agreed, everybody uses them differently. and i certainly won't judge a cameras functionality for me till i've actually used it. i've never been able to actually turn a thumb dial and index finger dial at the same time accurately. i've tested numerous times and i'm always faster changing two settings with a single (thumb) dial and a button to change it's function than i am to change the two settings with the two separate dials.
d_chiesa wrote:
Everybody uses cameras a different way, but for me: one wheel on the thumb, one on the shutter finger. One for aperture, the other for ev comp. Or aperture and shutter speed.
The push wheel on the panasonics drives me crazy.
Likewise, how dumb is to have 2 on the thumb as in the nex 7? Try changing aperture and shutter speed simultaneously :-)
We are being told by marketing guys what matters and what not; but priorities are different for each one of us.
Just because the GH2 and the E-M5 share the same size sensor, have a built in VF and are similar size, does not mean they work equally well in my hands. ...Show more →
Hmmm, I can't say that I ever change aperture and shutter speed simultaneously, whether it be with a Dslr with two dials or other cameras with lens aperture rings. Are you saying that, if you're at say, f2 and 1/500, you can change to F8 and 1/100 by moving both dials at the same time? That's quite a trick.
d_chiesa wrote:
Not much; most of it is because of price. Maybe even because of price/performance ratio.
I have a 5D and a GF1. If this thing have better IQ than the GF1, i'm out of the mythical FF. The 5D is much bigger, lenses are much bigger too, more expensive to boot, there is no pocketable alternative body to use the FF lenses on etc. etc. etc.
As it is, i can make A2 prints with the GF1 very close to the 5D (original), so this OM-D will probably make me quite happy.
If it was FF, it would be at least twice as expensive and i could use on it the old MF OM lenses (have a few and they are not incredibly great) and maybe the 1 or 2 new they would introduce with the new FF body: that would be a joke.
BTW, all of you dreaming of a FF body: how big do you print? In what darkness do you shoot most of the time and why? What were you doing with film?...Show more →
Since it's using the same sensor as the GX1, I can guarantee it will have noticeably better image quality than the GF1. I've owned the G1 (same IQ as the GF1) and now own the GH2 and GX1. The GX1 is at least two stops better at high ISO than the G1, and much less 'crunchy' at low ISO.
douglasf13 wrote:
Hmmm, I can't say that I ever change aperture and shutter speed simultaneously, whether it be with a Dslr with two dials or other cameras with lens aperture rings. Are you saying that, if you're at say, f2 and 1/500, you can change to F8 and 1/100 by moving both dials at the same time? That's quite a trick.
Usually, i say about the two separate controls, just because i like to have ev comp. and aperture both ready and on two different wheels; it's faster and less confusing.
But regarding the 'trick', when i do some still life or tests or so in the 'studio', on the 5D i DO change both aperture and shutter speed simultaneously with the two wheels. For example, the other day i was testing the GF1 and the 5D, one with the 20mm 1.7 the other with the voigtlander 40mm. On tripod, with the 5D, once i set the exposure i wanted in manual, i would just move both wheels in the right direction 3 clicks, at the same time, and i would have the same exposure at 1 stop apart. With the GF1, i had to move the wheel 3 clicks for shutter, press the wheel, and another 3 clicks in the other directions for aperture; and better be careful not to rotate the wheel too strongly, hence pressing it and going back to shutter control...
These days, having pretty good image quality in the vast majority of serious cameras anyways, these things are a huge difference to me. Another huge difference is compactness and lightness of the whole thing. That's why i look forward to this new camera, and why i did not go for either the GH2 or G3.
molson wrote:
Looks like they're introducing a cool 1960's-retro flash bracket too... although I never understood the purpose of positioning the flash below the camera for vertical (portrait) shots...
To avoid nose shadow (not the same as shadow noise) ?
molson wrote:
Looks like they're introducing a cool 1960's-retro flash bracket too... although I never understood the purpose of positioning the flash below the camera for vertical (portrait) shots...
Why, why why is this a small m4/3 sensor... I have 15 fantastic OM lenses sitting at home, just waiting for the FF OM-D... I guess 5DmkII has to do for a while longer.
Why would Olympus make a full frame camera when they haven't developed a full frame lens in decades?
They've finally realized that a tiny system can make great images, and have started tailoring their lens lineup towards that end and now their cameras. They're initial m4/3 lens decisions were sketchy, but they're really on the right track now with the 12/2, 45/1.8 and now 75/1.8 and 60 Macro.
d_chiesa wrote:
Usually, i say about the two separate controls, just because i like to have ev comp. and aperture both ready and on two different wheels; it's faster and less confusing.
But regarding the 'trick', when i do some still life or tests or so in the 'studio', on the 5D i DO change both aperture and shutter speed simultaneously with the two wheels. For example, the other day i was testing the GF1 and the 5D, one with the 20mm 1.7 the other with the voigtlander 40mm. On tripod, with the 5D, once i set the exposure i wanted in manual, i would just move both wheels in the right direction 3 clicks, at the same time, and i would have the same exposure at 1 stop apart. With the GF1, i had to move the wheel 3 clicks for shutter, press the wheel, and another 3 clicks in the other directions for aperture; and better be careful not to rotate the wheel too strongly, hence pressing it and going back to shutter control...
These days, having pretty good image quality in the vast majority of serious cameras anyways, these things are a huge difference to me. Another huge difference is compactness and lightness of the whole thing. That's why i look forward to this new camera, and why i did not go for either the GH2 or G3....Show more →
Many cameras have Program shift, which I believe does the same thing with a single dial. Either way, that is a pretty unique circumstance that has never bothered me in a studio.
Jman13 wrote:
Why would Olympus make a full frame camera when they haven't developed a full frame lens in decades?
They've finally realized that a tiny system can make great images, and have started tailoring their lens lineup towards that end and now their cameras. They're initial m4/3 lens decisions were sketchy, but they're really on the right track now with the 12/2, 45/1.8 and now 75/1.8 and 60 Macro.
I would agree, but Olympus drumming up OM marketing interest is why some would hope for a 35mm sensor. All this OM is is Pen with an EVF, more or less, so it's a little misleading.
FlyPenFly wrote:
Super nice looking camera. Super disappointing sensor size. Need the flexibility of shallow DoF.
Which Olympus lens is weather sealed?
The new 12-50 which is probably going to be the kit lens sold with the camera.
As for DOF, with the 25/1.4 you get 2 feet at a 10 foot distance vs 1.3 feet with a 35/1.4 on APS-C. So, more DOF obviously, but not by excessive amounts.
pingflood wrote:
The new 12-50 which is probably going to be the kit lens sold with the camera.
As for DOF, with the 25/1.4 you get 2 feet at a 10 foot distance vs 1.3 feet with a 35/1.4 on APS-C. So, more DOF obviously, but not by excessive amounts.
It is obviously VERY photographer dependent on what they like, but I actually rather like the DOF I get on micro 4/3. I used to tend to try and get as shallow as I could when I was shooting full frame, often to the detriment of the images. I find 45mm @ f/1.8 on micro 4/3 to be just about the perfect depth of field for upper body portraits. The whole face stays in focus, but the background is very nicely blurred. Using the 25/1.4 I also feel it's a good DOF for most work, though every once in a while I wish I could have shallower.
I understand a lot if you are used to shooting a 35/1.4 on full frame for big subject isolation on an environmental portrait, as you really can't do that on micro 4/3, but for me that's never been a big part of my shooting. Fast adapted lenses allow for full body subject isolation at longer focal lengths, such as the Rokinon 85/1.4, which behaves like a 170 f/2.8, which is quite nice (and still smaller than a 200/2.8 lens).
The extra DOF can be a real blessing when hand holding in less than ideal light for architecture/street type shooting. Take this shot, for instance, which was taken at f/1.6 on my GH2 with the 25/1.4. Sure, because there's no foreground f/1.6 could be used on a full frame camera without too much loss, except that most 50mm lenses on full frame aren't even close to this sharp at f/1.4 or so. I'd have needed likely f/2.8 and ISO 1600 on full frame for this shot, rather than the ISO 640 I was able to shoot at. Even more beneficial if shooting with something like the 12/2, where f/2.8-f/4 is often enough for deep depth of field that would require f/8 on full frame. If shooting, say, in a cathedral, this can be a big benefit.
molson wrote:
Looks like they're introducing a cool 1960's-retro flash bracket too... although I never understood the purpose of positioning the flash below the camera for vertical (portrait) shots...
Molson, where'd you find this image? Nevermind, just found it on 43rumors.com I can't wait to shoot with that 75mm f/1.8! Love the look of the silver/black OM-D. I can't wait to see the final specs in a few days and then get my hands on one of these, I think it will push my E-P3 out the door
For the past two years Oly has produced some very nice primes, I like where all this is going, and with Panasonic's new f/2.8 X zooms, this could get really interesting!
One other thing, with a 75mm f/1.8 this will hopefully lead to more long primes from Oly, I'd love to see some 1.4x and 2x TC's from Olympus for MFT. So come on Oly, bring on the 150mm f/2, the 200mm f/2.8 and the 300mm f/4, if the new 5-axis IBIS really works then what a killer birding/wildlife combo this would be Not to mention sports and other applications, even spy work, maybe the CIA will buy into this
One thing that bugs me about Hollywood is the movies/TV shows that show taped out Nikon's and Canon's with cheap consumer lenses and the resulting image is this superb closeup, haha.
The worst I've seen is "Person of Interest" (which I love) but when they have John using an iPhone to take a quick snapshot in low light and the resulting image looks like it came from a 400mm f/2.8, then that is a bit much. One of the best "real world" situations was last week in "White Collar" when Jones (an FBI agent) was snapping some shots and he was using a nice big telephoto
Jman13 wrote:
The extra DOF can be a real blessing when hand holding in less than ideal light for architecture/street type shooting. Take this shot, for instance, which was taken at f/1.6 on my GH2 with the 25/1.4. Sure, because there's no foreground f/1.6 could be used on a full frame camera without too much loss, except that most 50mm lenses on full frame aren't even close to this sharp at f/1.4 or so. I'd have needed likely f/2.8 and ISO 1600 on full frame for this shot, rather than the ISO 640 I was able to shoot at. Even more beneficial if shooting with something like the 12/2, where f/2.8-f/4 is often enough for deep depth of field that would require f/8 on full frame. If shooting, say, in a cathedral, this can be a big benefit. ...Show more →
Yeah, but the higher ISOs of the larger format camera are likely to be cleaner than m4/3, so it's not really a net gain. Either way, I agree that, if you don't need a shallow DOF look, 35mm doesn't have as much of an advantage.
Extra dof per shot means a bigger part of your photo will be sharp... I can see how some weird photographers tend to consider their backgrounds interesting and work with them and include them in the photo, so they consider extra dof a good thing (sharp photos, they're kinda nice), but YMMV.
Anyway occasionally I want to go the other way with dof too, so I'm keeping my 5D with a couple of fast lenses for this purpose. But I know my most used camera will be crop because of the extra dof. Plus its a godsend to work with a 28mm (EFV) lens at f2 on a crop camera and never really have to focus it, because it has the dof of a superwide. Lowlight street, kids running around you etc, you can have Nikon's fastest autofocus and it's simply not fast enough, only NO focus is fast enough.
The main reason I wanted OM-D to be full frame is because I have a couple of OM lenses that are really meant to be used uncropped, and also because it's the only way it could have a massive optical VF like the the original OM did. I dont think I will ever use EVF seriously no matter how much they improve them. To me it's not a matter of res or lag or even size, it's mostly a matter of dynamic range, you wan to take a photo of someone with a bright sky behind them and all you see is a black face. Can this be improved in the future? Not sure (I hope so!), but I shoot in Australia mostly daytime and all we get over here is harsh light and dark shadows. I need to see what's in them to make my decisions and compose, and I usually get a second to do it if I'm lucky.
Spyro P. wrote:
The main reason I wanted OM-D to be full frame is because I have a couple of OM lenses that are really meant to be used uncropped, and also because it's the only way it could have a massive optical VF like the the original OM did. I dont think I will ever use EVF seriously no matter how much they improve them. To me it's not a matter of res or lag or even size, it's mostly a matter of dynamic range, you wan to take a photo of someone with a bright sky behind them and all you see is a black face. Can this be improved in the future? Not sure (I hope so!), but I shoot in Australia mostly daytime and all we get over here is harsh light and dark shadows. I need to see what's in them to make my decisions and compose, and I usually get a second to do it if I'm lucky....Show more →
I think the OM-D looks to be a desirable m4/3 camera, but I agree that it was misleading.
As for the EVF, I really don't think it's as bad as you think. I'm not sure about other cameras, but, with Sony, since the jpeg processing is seen in the EVF, you could use DRO mode in its highest setting, which boosts shadows a ton, if you want a broader DR. I went from an A900 to the 5N, and I rather like the EVF.
I can't wait to shoot with that 75mm f/1.8! Love the look of the silver/black OM-D. I can't wait to see the final specs in a few days and then get my hands on one of these, I think it will push my E-P3 out the door 