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Archive 2012 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF
  
 
philip_pj
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p.4 #1 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Wayne, probably not WRT weight/size, as the 25/2 is 600 grams, the 25/2.8 is 460 grams and the 35/2 is 570 grams. I ageee about a nod to APS-C (on DSLR), as we see in CZ literature for the 25/2. It is an enduring mystery that they cannot do for corners at 24mm, 25mm and 35mm that which they did for corners in 21mm 20 years ago...

Their NEX lens, the unusual 24/1.8, is a light 220 grams. It's tempting to think they are aiming to please 7D/A77/D7000 owners, but those cameras are bought by users who are much more price-sensitive than 5Dii/A900/D3-4/D700 users. And these modern CZ releases are of course far from cheap or even moderately priced.


Jan 11, 2012 at 06:59 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #2 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


philip_pj wrote:
Lenstip...this is the kind of checklist thinking that leads to Hyundais with feature bloat being regarded as highly as a Benz. Fine, until you have a crash in one.

Sharpness - same as Canon, edge - worse than Samyang, loCA - worse tham others, distortion - ~same, weight/bulk - bad, vignetting/backlight - worse than others.

I have no vested interest, but I am starting to see why photographers' (LC, Sean, MR) Zeiss reviews are sought after, and also why most test images are so poor.

People want to know what well-crafted images look like shot with the lens, strange as that...Show more →

Yes, there is always more subjective criteria to consider. I just posted that since I did not see where Lenstip had given the impression that the Zeiss 35 1.4 was the best 35 they had tested, as claimed above.


Jan 11, 2012 at 07:18 PM
zhangyue
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p.4 #3 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yes, there is always more subjective criteria to consider. I just posted that since I did not see where Lenstip had given the impression that the Zeiss 35 1.4 was the best 35 they had tested, as claimed above.

To be honest, I want this 35mm lens for a while after seen many examples and decide pull the trigger after read Lenstip's review Which is the only technical review available I am waiting for. It is not exceptional on all category compare to others, but other than Zeiss D21, which Zeiss is exceptional that put all competition behind in terms of technical spec? None. If you expect Zeiss to be technical favorable compare to all others, of course you will disappoint. Aren't we use Zeiss for its rendering, color, and micro_contrast?

Well, In lenstip review, if we look at rank individually out of Canon 35L, Nikon 35G Sony 35G Samyang 35 This is still overall 1st all around if take AF out:
sharpness:1
Distortion:1
Vignett: full frame tie with samyang
CA: 2
Build:1
Flare:2?3?4?
How can we treat this as a bad review? Samyang is surprisingly good but that doesn't make Zeiss bad, is it?

I have found that any Zeiss fast lens are worth to buy to MY use. I am not fanboy of Zeiss. There are always some drawbacks for any particular lens. But to me, the way I use it, I am willing to accept the flaw.

For example, both Planar 50 and planar 85 are exceptional lens to me. Sure, I wish P50 could be more sharper wide open. But what other 50mm lens I can get with overall build, size, color, micro_contrast, back-light performance and rendering? For my use, is not about corner sharpness, Vignett, distortion but rendering, color and micro contrast, which is hugely comes from coating, which is still the best IMO till now.

Other than MP100, D21, ZM85/15, which Zeiss has extreme sharp corner? If you want a 25mm Zeiss, and need f2, go for it. Do you have other option to get this kind of color and pop?

I don't know how many of you guys purchase lens based on extreme corner performance. to me. if it has it, even better. if not, who care.

All I don't understand is why flame this lens? why not 35f1.4, 35f2, MP50.....
Jan 12, 2012 at 01:34 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #4 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


zhangyue wrote:
To be honest, I want this 35mm lens for a while after seen many examples and decide pull the trigger after read Lenstip's review Which is the only technical review available I am waiting for. It is not exceptional on all category compare to others, but other than Zeiss D21, which Zeiss is exceptional that put all competition behind in terms of technical spec? None. If you expect Zeiss to be technical favorable compare to all others, of course you will disappoint. Aren't we use Zeiss for its rendering, color, and micro_contrast?

Well, In lenstip review, if we look...Show more →

I'm sure it's a fine lens and it's one I have come close to buying recently myself. My quote from the Lenstip review was just for factual information. I don't see how anyone would read the conclusion and walk away saying "wow, Lenstip considers the Zeiss 35 1.4 to be the best 35 they ever tested". They are quite lukewarm on it's overall performance in relationship to the competition AND considering it's price. But that's just Lenstip. No reason to take their review as gospel! The many incredible images posted here as well as other reviews of the lens, such as that from Lloyd at Diglloyd.com reinforce how good the lens is.



Jan 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM
Gunzorro
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p.4 #5 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


philip_pj wrote:
Lenstip...this is the kind of checklist thinking that leads to Hyundais with feature bloat being regarded as highly as a Benz. Fine, until you have a crash in one.

Sharpness - same as Canon, edge - worse than Samyang, loCA - worse tham others, distortion - ~same, weight/bulk - bad, vignetting/backlight - worse than others.

I have no vested interest, but I am starting to see why photographers' (LC, Sean, MR) Zeiss reviews are sought after, and also why most test images are so poor.

People want to know what well-crafted images look like shot with the lens, strange as that...Show more →

Philip -- Those are two serious failings of the ZE 21/2.8, and do have a negative effect when I'm choosing which lens to use. The moustache distortion is not 100% architecturally correctable in LR3 lens profile, and the SA that leads to the vignetting always has reduced data in the corners when corrected, making them look rough and raggedy (tough on blue skies, prone to noise). Still, the lens is nice and very crisp in the central region. But it does always make me consider whether I can get by with 24mm and use the Canon TS-E when I want a overall clean image from corner to corner.
Jan 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Z250SA
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p.4 #6 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


zhangyue wrote:
All I don't understand is why flame this lens? why not 35f1.4, 35f2, MP50.....


Oh, but those have _all_ had their fair share of poop. The 35/1.4 was one of the worst lenses ever made (curvature of field, blurry wide open, LoCA, OMG Zeiss how could you let me down...), 35/2 LoCA and bad resolution, 50MP ooohhh soo blurry corners. Even the 100MP has been very useless due to fringing wide open. Itīs just the local bickering that you either love and stay or hate and leave. Personally I find it amusing nowadays to follow the progress of any new lens, especially Zeiss, as they are utterly bad at a certain stage mostly before anyone or very few have a copy of the lens in question. I have five of the Zīs and despite being some of the worst lenses on market, they make me smile. And to me thatīs all that counts.


Jan 12, 2012 at 12:44 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.4 #7 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Z250SA wrote:
Oh, but those have _all_ had their fair share of poop. The 35/1.4 was one of the worst lenses ever made (curvature of field, blurry wide open, LoCA, OMG Zeiss how could you let me down...), 35/2 LoCA and bad resolution, 50MP ooohhh soo blurry corners. Even the 100MP has been very useless due to fringing wide open. Itīs just the local bickering that you either love and stay or hate and leave. Personally I find it amusing nowadays to follow the progress of any new lens, especially Zeiss, as they are utterly bad at a certain stage mostly...Show more →

So true!


Jan 12, 2012 at 12:55 PM
Toothwalker
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p.4 #8 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Gunzorro wrote:
The moustache distortion is not 100% architecturally correctable in LR3 lens profile, and the SA that leads to the vignetting always has reduced data in the corners when corrected, making them look rough and raggedy (tough on blue skies, prone to noise).

SA as in Spherical Aberration leads to vignetting?
Jan 12, 2012 at 01:16 PM
Jorge Torralba
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p.4 #9 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


So many negative reports about the 35. I personally look at the photos and make my judgment from there without getting into the pixel peeping.

Here are a few from the 35 1.4 that I like regardless of the reviews.

http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1306293784.SEQ.4.jpg

http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1305420061.SEQ.3.jpg

http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1320117667.SEQ.0.jpg

An on film

http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1308413357.SEQ.1.jpg

http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1308362001.SEQ.7.jpg



http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/4/U4I1307062775.SEQ.0.jpg
Jan 12, 2012 at 03:35 PM
Z250SA
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p.4 #10 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


1 sharp corner of 24. Yes, that lens is such a disappointment!


Jan 12, 2012 at 04:38 PM
wiseguy010
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p.4 #11 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Z250SA wrote:
Oh, but those have _all_ had their fair share of poop. The 35/1.4 was one of the worst lenses ever made (curvature of field, blurry wide open, LoCA, OMG Zeiss how could you let me down...), 35/2 LoCA and bad resolution, 50MP ooohhh soo blurry corners. Even the 100MP has been very useless due to fringing wide open. Itīs just the local bickering that you either love and stay or hate and leave. Personally I find it amusing nowadays to follow the progress of any new lens, especially Zeiss, as they are utterly bad at a certain stage mostly...Show more →

+100




Jan 12, 2012 at 04:57 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.4 #12 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Don't get me wrong, wish I had one.
Jan 12, 2012 at 05:29 PM
philber
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p.4 #13 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


wiseguy010 wrote:
+100

My thoughts exactly, except that Z250SA expressed them a lot better than I could have.





Jan 12, 2012 at 05:49 PM
Gunzorro
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p.4 #14 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Toothwalker wrote:
SA as in Spherical Aberration leads to vignetting?



I believe spherical aberration and light fall-off are related. No?
Jan 12, 2012 at 06:51 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.4 #15 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


philip_pj wrote:
Wayne, probably not WRT weight/size, as the 25/2 is 600 grams, the 25/2.8 is 460 grams and the 35/2 is 570 grams. I ageee about a nod to APS-C (on DSLR), as we see in CZ literature for the 25/2. It is an enduring mystery that they cannot do for corners at 24mm, 25mm and 35mm that which they did for corners in 21mm 20 years ago...

Their NEX lens, the unusual 24/1.8, is a light 220 grams. It's tempting to think they are aiming to please 7D/A77/D7000 owners, but those cameras are bought by users who are much more price-sensitive...Show more →


Philip,

If you compare the compare the size of the new 25/2 ZE (2.87" x 3.86", filter size 67mm) to the 21/2.8 ZE ( 3.43" x 4.79", filter size 82mm) and 25/2.8 ZF (2.36" x 3.54", filter size 58mm) and 28/2 ZE (2.52" x 3.66", filter size 58mm), I think you see that the new ZE 25/2 has a much smaller filter size (front element size) and is much smaller length and width wise compared to the 21/2.8, a slower lens with albeit, slightly larger angle of view. It is not that much bigger than the 28/2 even though it is wider angle of view.
I think Zeiss emphasized having a smaller size lens, which makes sense for travel and street shooting, at the expense of not having great performance at the edge and corners of far distance shots.
Just trying to have an open discussion here about the factors of lens design and understand the tradeoffs Zeiss made for this lens design.
Jan 12, 2012 at 06:55 PM
OneAnt
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p.4 #16 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


wayne seltzer wrote:
I think Zeiss emphasized having a smaller size lens, which makes sense for travel and street shooting, at the expense of not having great performance at the edge and corners of far distance shots.


It is exactly this. Its designed for having a foot into the scene and it wrapped about you. 28 and 35 are regarded as the classical FLs for street but a taste for more drama has pushed me wider and my 35 sits unloved these days. 21 is nice and I almost use it as a general purpose lens but it pushes the sides of a scene away, this 24 pulls them back in ...if that makes any sense.
Gorgeous colour and sharp like a makro but I have heard no one make comment about how it is to focus. Some have remarked that the 35/1.4 is difficult and I expect this 24 is a dream.

I'm in love, can anyone tell?

You must remember this,
A Zeiss is still a Zeiss, the eye is still the eye.
The fundamental things apply...
As time goes by.


And when you've got the light,
The picture comes out right.
On that you can rely.
No matter what the future brings,
As time goes by


Moonlight and fast glass,
Never out of date.
Hearts full of passion,
Make images so great.
Camera needs lens,
And lens must have its mate.
That no one can deny.


it's still the same old story,
The light for love and glory,
The camera and the eye.
The world will always welcome Zeiss,
As time goes by.


adapted by: Joseph S.Wisniewski 2009)
Jan 12, 2012 at 07:52 PM
SKumar25
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p.4 #17 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


OneAnt wrote:
I'm in love, can anyone tell?

You must remember this,
A Zeiss is still a Zeiss, the eye is still the eye.
The fundamental things apply...
As time goes by.


And when you've got the light,
The picture comes out right.
On that you can rely.
No matter what the future brings,
As time goes by


Moonlight and fast glass,
Never out of date.
Hearts full of passion,
Make images so great.
Camera needs lens,
And lens must have its mate.
That no one can deny.


it's still the same old story,
The light for love and glory,
The camera and the eye.
The world will always welcome Zeiss,
As time goes by.


adapted by: Joseph S.Wisniewski 2009)


That poem deserves its own thread!!


Jan 12, 2012 at 08:00 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.4 #18 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


Ok, I hope the people who just piped up about perceived trashing/flaming of lenses have gotten it out of their system. I would like to reply to all this:

1) First and foremost, I have never said the ZE 25/2 or ZE 35/1.4 which I have discussed critically in many threads in this forum were ever a bad or terrible lens. I have mentioned their good points as well as their bad points and let people decide which factors are more important to them and which lens is best for them.

2) This is a technical gear forum where we discuss the bad points and good points of all lenses. What we hope to do here is cut out all the fanboi BS and keep it real. I shoot all brands of alt lenses and try to keep a fair analysis of all lenses. No lens is perfect (although my Leica 100/2.8 APO and 180/2.8 are pretty close) and so we discuss a laundry list of attributes of a lens objectively and then individually make our decision based on our own weightings. I don't see how mentioning that a lens is not sharp in the corner when it isn't, is trashing the lens. If you don't want to know all the bad points of your new Zeiss lens then don't read these threads. Just buy it and live happily. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

3) Some people find that knowing a lenses strengths and weaknesses is helpful in getting the most of a lens and knowing when to use that lens for a certain type of shooting vs. another lens.
For that you need to know the good and the bad.
4) I was one of the first few people in this forum with the ZE 50/2MP and found it to be an amazing lens.
Then Boris posted a good comparison with the CZ 35-70 at 35 and showed that the extreme (last 2-3%) corners were blurred till around f5.6. To me that is not a serious problem and I still love the lens and didn't take it like he was trashing the lens. It was interesting fact to know. Much later Carsten found the lens to have some field curvature at mid distances which he documented. I never really saw this with my copy but then I wasn't shooting a lot of mid distance with narrower DOF to get separation from background. I was using my 50P for that which I like for that type of shooting. I still love the 50MP and don't worry if other people don't like it. I think Snowboarder returned his copy right away and doesn't like the lens. That is ok with me. IMO that the performance across the frame for far distance scene vista landscape shots is much better with the 50MP than the new 25/2 ZE. By f5.6 the last 2% of corner rendered by the 50MP is sharp and it is solid all the way across. It is why I and others like to use it for stitching landscape shots.
5) I have said in other threads that the new 25/2 will be great for those who do a lot of street/city shooting, shooting of fountains etc. I even reassured Philber that this lens will be great for him and his type of shooting. If I was trashing the lens I would not be doing that right?
6) I started awhile back my alt lens journey to this forum, because I was unhappy with my wide angle lens, 16-35, performance across the frame. I then discovered here how Zeiss and Leica rendered color better, micro-contrast, etc. I have a lot of Zeiss glass and all of them have great across the frame performance when stopped down except maybe my contax N 85/1.4 which is an excellent portrait lens, designed for bokeh and is ok to not have sharp corners. This new 25/2 is the first new lens from Zeiss which doesn't excel at far distance. Which is ok, if you don't do much far distance shooting.
Seems like a lot people here equate Zeiss to only the Zeiss color,microcontrast, and traditional Zeiss look, but not with being excellent in sharpness across the frame. Fine, maybe Zeiss knows all it needs to do is produce lens with excellent color,very-low CA, microcontrast, and not have to worry about sharpness to keep the typical Zeiss fanboi happy.
7) Finally, without striving for designing the closest to perfect lens as possible, and people like Herr Schuster there would be no great lens designs like CZ 21. I have said this before, but I expect zeiss to make industry leading designs. Canon and Nikon have their new 24/1.4's which are top notch and soon we will have an entry from the upstart Samyang which will be 1.4 also.
BTW, I just saw that B&H has some in stock on their website right now. Surprised they haven't sold out like they usually do for newly introduced Zeiss lenses.



Jan 12, 2012 at 08:19 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.4 #19 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


OneAnt wrote:
It is exactly this. Its designed for having a foot into the scene and it wrapped about you. 28 and 35 are regarded as the classical FLs for street but a taste for more drama has pushed me wider and my 35 sits unloved these days. 21 is nice and I almost use it as a general purpose lens but it pushes the sides of a scene away, this 24 pulls them back in ...if that makes any sense.
Gorgeous colour and sharp like a makro but I have heard no one make comment about how it is to focus. Some...Show more →

Or lust! I hope you get a copy of this lens soon and make many works of art and love!
Jan 12, 2012 at 08:28 PM
zhangyue
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p.4 #20 · The new 25mm f2 Distagon ZF


wayne seltzer wrote:
Ok, I hope the people who just piped up about perceived trashing/flaming of lenses have gotten it out of their system. I would like to reply to all this:

1) First and foremost, I have never said the ZE 25/2 or ZE 35/1.4 which I have discussed critically in many threads in this forum were ever a bad or terrible lens. I have mentioned their good points as well as their bad points and let people decide which factors are more important to them and which lens is best for them.

2) This is a technical gear forum where we discuss...Show more →

I don't know who you refer about Fanboi and keep use that word as many as you can. I see there is strong bias attitude going on this thread make me wonder what happen to this lens so that was my reply. I don't even think I offend anybody in my post.

You seems refer anybody disagree with you about this lens is a Zeiss Fanboi. Did I or anybody say anything corner is extreme sharp. All I am saying is you pick the lens suit you and be happy. To me, the biggest selling point of Zeiss always is color and micro_contrast and bokeh I love. Is that make me a Zeiss fanboi? If you look photozone lens review, almost all latest 50mm, 35mm nikon or canon is sharper than equivalent Zeiss after f4. Look at 85G, 50G 35G compare to P85, MP50/P50, D35f2.

There has nothing wrong to point out flaw of the lens. Or make constructive suggestion about a lens but If I use every single thread to point out CA of MP100, corner soft of MP50, or wide open softness of P50, SA of D35f1.4, focus shift of P85, does that sound weird?

This 25mm is not even in my purchase list. The lens make you disappoint does not necessary disappoint others who have no interesting what so ever about extreme corner sharpness.

Enough said.






Jan 12, 2012 at 08:52 PM
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