p.3 #1 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
Yes, the announcement seemed somewhat Fuji oriented though which puts my hopes up for an in house sensor. If they claim that the Sony 24MP sensor is leaps and bounds better than any current FF sensor then I think they are stretching it a bit to far.
I am personally not too convinced by the 24MP APS-C sensor yet, it is not a mile stone sensor in my book, it is just the one they managed to cram the most pixels in for bragging rights so far.
If I am wrong and the Fuji LX would tote that same Sony sensor with the possible inherent problems it would be far less attractive to me.
We'll have to wait and see, now you guys made me worried about it.
p.3 #2 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
kosmoskatten wrote:
Yes, the announcement seemed somewhat Fuji oriented though which puts my hopes up for an in house sensor. If they claim that the Sony 24MP sensor is leaps and bounds better than any current FF sensor then I think they are stretching it a bit to far.
I am personally not too convinced by the 24MP APS-C sensor yet, it is not a mile stone sensor in my book, it is just the one they managed to cram the most pixels in for bragging rights so far.
If I am wrong and the Fuji LX would tote that same Sony sensor with the possible inherent problems it would be far less attractive to me.
We'll have to wait and see, now you guys made me worried about it. ...Show more →
It's unlikely Fuji was referring to the Sony 24MP APS sensor as being better than that in any current FF camera available given that even Sony was careful to word their announcement of that sensor as approaching the quality of the Sony 24MP FF sensor.
p.3 #3 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
It's unlikely Fuji was referring to the Sony 24MP APS sensor as being better than that in any current FF camera available given that even Sony was careful to word their announcement of that sensor as approaching the quality of the Sony 24MP FF sensor.
Yes, but then it could just be a lame marketing hyperbole made by Fuji. Today's dpreview article about the Fuji sensor patent (organic layer) doesn't seem too encouringing for the chances this new L-x sensor is the big thing. But if it is not a 3 layer sensor, how will they exceed current FF cameras in both resolution and noise?
We'll find out soon, but I am more sceptical now than before reading the dpreview article, given a true expert (Eric Fossum) is being quoted in it, and he also seems to think - like a few other experts - that the sensor may not be ready for a commercial release and also more for small sensor cameras rather for large sensors.
p.3 #4 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
alba63 wrote:
Yes, but then it could just be a lame marketing hyperbole made by Fuji. Today's dpreview article about the Fuji sensor patent (organic layer) doesn't seem too encouringing for the chances this new L-x sensor is the big thing. But if it is not a 3 layer sensor, how will they exceed current FF cameras in both resolution and noise?
We'll find out soon, but I am more sceptical now than before reading the dpreview article, given a true expert (Eric Fossum) is being quoted in it, and he also seems to think - like a few other experts - that the sensor may not be ready for a commercial release and also more for small sensor cameras rather for large sensors.
Yes, I would be surprised if it's ready for commercial use myself. Guess we will find out by mid January. Even if it is the Sony 24MP APS sensor, which I'm not too big on, I guess there is still the possibility that Fuji could fine tune it better than Sony has.
p.3 #5 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
alba63 wrote:
But if it is not a 3 layer sensor, how will they exceed current FF cameras in both resolution and noise?
This paragraph pretty much sums that up if it's accurate:
"Fujifilm's internal paper on the technology claims several advantages to the design. The first is that the organic layer can be coated across the entire sensor, making much more of the surface light-sensitive. This means there's no need for microlenses to redirect light onto specific light-sensitive regions. There's also no need to divide the photosensitive layer into individual photosites. Both these features could make the sensor less expensive to manufacture, Fujifilm's team says. The organic material's sensitivity to only visible light also avoids the need for a IR-filter in front of the sensor (silicon sensors are sensitive to IR light)."
More efficient, no need for IR filter and no problem with the angle of light projected by very compact lenses ala rangefinder wides (no micro lenses and a flat film surface like traditional film). The last two points - particularly when designing small lenses for smaller camera bodies - were not even addressed in the article. Taken together, these advances would shatter many current technical barriers and should result in much better IQ.
p.3 #6 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
It's interesting how quickly Canon's comments faded from this thread. Canon just doesn't seem to 'get it'...at least as far as the segment of the market that this forum represents is concerned.
p.3 #7 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
This paragraph pretty much sums that up if it's accurate:
"Fujifilm's internal paper on the technology claims several advantages to the design. The first is that the organic layer can be coated across the entire sensor, making much more of the surface light-sensitive. This means there's no need for microlenses to redirect light onto specific light-sensitive regions. There's also no need to divide the photosensitive layer into individual photosites. Both these features could make the sensor less expensive to manufacture, Fujifilm's team says. The organic material's sensitivity to only visible light also avoids the need for a IR-filter in front of the sensor (silicon sensors are sensitive to IR light)."
(...) Taken together, these advances would shatter many current technical barriers and should result in much better IQ. ...Show more →
I do not know enough about electronics, but it does sound good. So, does this sensor require a Bayer filter or not?
Whatever it is, I will postpone any major purchase until the d800 and the Fuji cam are announced in order to find what I will do with my 5dII.
p.3 #8 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
You've got to wonder how a lens would look and perform when built with this organic sensor in mind. If the new body has this tech in some form it makes me a bit more excited for what lenses Fuji has to offer with this new body.
p.3 #9 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
alba63; as I see it (and from what I read about the organic sensor) there would be no need for a Bayer filter, which is going to make every pixel count.
Bluetsunami: I think that the sensor would have less problems with accommodating different lenses since they can do without some of the image compromising necessities of the other sensor technologies. Hopefully, Fuji are on to something good here.
p.3 #10 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
kosmoskatten wrote:
alba63; as I see it (and from what I read about the organic sensor) there would be no need for a Bayer filter, which is going to make every pixel count.
Bluetsunami: I think that the sensor would have less problems with accommodating different lenses since they can do without some of the image compromising necessities of the other sensor technologies. Hopefully, Fuji are on to something good here.
Looks like it still uses an RGB color filter, which I'm guessing is a Bayer type but freeing the design of wide angle lenses would be a huge deal.
In the text, the words that are the most interesting are: "and expect to see innovation". Certainly doesn't sound like "we will now as well use the Sony 24MP sensor but slightly tweaked it in our sense".
In the text, the words that are the most interesting are: "and expect to see innovation". Certainly doesn't sound like "we will now as well use the Sony 24MP sensor but slightly tweaked it in our sense".
Go, go, Fuji, give us a little revolution!
Bernie
Great news. Thanks! I was worried that Fuji might not be ready with the organic sensor tech. but at this point, with all the hype, I think they would be foolish to not tame expectations if they were not ready. I also read recently that it might not be until February that we heard something so this is even better.
One thing I am curious about is if Fuji will release an all black version of the x100 and if it's possible they might end up bumping the sensor to 16MP. Ricoh is doing this with their GXR since Sony has ceased production of the 12MP sensor, which I believe is the same one Fuji uses in the X100. Of course, Fuji could have also pre-bought a huge stock of the 12MP sensor as well I guess (though since the success of the x100 was unexpected, perhaps not).
p.3 #13 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
Great news. Thanks! I was worried that Fuji might not be ready with the organic sensor tech. but at this point, with all the hype, I think they would be foolish to not tame expectations if they were not ready.
Well, "expect to see innovation" really sounds like - well: innovation, new, not standard... And I hope they mean the sensor! Some specialists on dpreview (amongst which Eric Fossum and some other really knowledgable guys) think that it is not possible to manufacture the organic sensor at economically reasonable cost, even if technically it seems to be more than excellent. Fuji's claims and all rumours indicate that it may have been possible nevertheless. I just hope they will not release a sensor with many "first version issues".
One thing I am curious about is if Fuji will release an all black version of the x100 and if it's possible they might end up bumping the sensor to 16MP.
If they can get the Sony 16MP sensor that is built into the Nex 5n, the Nikon d7000 Pentax K5 etc., that would indeed be a welcome upgrade for the x100.
p.3 #17 · Round Table Interview with Eight Major Camera Makers (translation?)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Yes, and the body looks to be all black, unlike the ugly appearance of the previous images.
Yes, looks like a x100 type of camera, maybe only EVF, or adjustable optical (like x10) plus electronic overlay and switchable like in the x100 -
The ugly images were the body without the coating/ leather etc.
I have the x10 since several weeks, and despite the white disk problem this is one compact that I really like to use and to touch. The manual zoom is unique in the compact world, and the twist of the lens that switches the camera on is beautiful to operate. IQ is very good for a compact, but not on par with current DSLRs of course. But this is a camera for the times when I just do not like to carry a compact.
If - against all expectations - that new Fuji X1 pro will dissappoint, I will go for a Nex 7, which is noisy but has beautiful colour output.
