p.3 #2 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
saneproduction wrote:
I am hoping for 1 stop better than a 5D II (6400=3200 on 5DIII) in a 5DIII with better AF. If they do that and it is under $3k, I am in.
don't rush it yet, low iso range should be better than 5D/1Dsii. Not the way 5D2 is
p.3 #4 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
In my opinion it is unwise to use any single-number DxO Mark ratings for judging cameras. The charts were far more informative because they let you see what happens at different ISOs, and show the rate of change as well as the best values for colour depth, tonal depth, dynamic range, etc.
Fundamentally, *any* camera image can be cleaned up and made practically noise free but there is a cost in terms of lost detail and lost tonal levels even if there is plenty of dynamic range. Even without going to such extremes some software sacrifices far more information than others. e.g. DPP NR is savage on image detail even at very low settings. Lightroom NR is far superior but is more complicated to use. Other dedicated NR software can treat shadow areas differently from brighter areas, for example, and that can extend the apparent capability of cameras.
Some images need to handle fine details in shadow areas and for these the standard definition of DR is not appropriate (i.e. that the dark end of the DR starts where noise level = signal level). I prefer much cleaner shadows for subjects such as landscapes but if I was photographing a car or some other low-detail shot then I could easily get away with more noise (less DR) and clean it up in processing. There's a lot less detail to be seen in a smooth paint finish than there is in a forest undergrowth.
Many of the images posted in this thread do not have a great tonal depth. There are details in the bright areas, and the darkest areas are clean, but there is often little shadow detail. Technically the DR is high but there are not as many distinct tonal levels in the images as you might get at lower ISO (but of course I know that low ISO is impractical to freeze action in low light). This is fine in many cases such as concerts and the like, but in high-contrast landscape work I prefer to keep good shadow detail without blowing the highlights, and I prefer to do it at middle to high ISOs so that I can avoid using a tripod. I judge my D3s to be much better than my 1D4 in this role. And for me it is also important that the AF works with more than just the central AF sensor in these conditions.
I personally find the 1D4 to be a noisy camera. Yes the images clean up pretty well but if you look at them with zero NR there is plenty of colour noise in them. Note that Lightroom does not default to zero NR.
p.3 #5 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
Alan, perhaps you could (and perhaps you would) answer a question for me that I've posted several times, and seen at least one other member ask, and no one has troubled to reply:
When people refer to LR's noise reduction, do they mean in the ACR component, or is there some other NR tool available after the conversion has been done?
p.3 #6 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
Lightroom works with the raw images directly (actually doesn't change the raw file bust writes an .xml sidecar file that contains all of your corrections much like a non-linear editor such as final cut pro or premiere. There is an advanced noise reduction tool that you work with right inside the program at any point during processing.
The Nikon D4, which is slated for February availability at a $6,000 suggested retail, will offer a full-frame 16.2-megapixel full-format CMOS image sensor that will shoot full-resolution images at up to a 10 fps rate.
The Nikon D4 has improved low-light performance, with an ISO range from 100 to 102,400 which can be expanded to 50 to 204,800 for both movies and stills.
p.3 #8 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
Sounds cool, however...
I would be so bummed to switch to Nikon! I just got my Canon kit rounded out where I want it thanks to the addition of a 200 1.8L. It would be a huge trauma to switch. I would miss my 17 TS-E, 50 1.2, 135L and 200 1.8L.
p.3 #10 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
I own (have owned) the 5D Mk I, 5D Mk II, 1D Mk III, 1Ds Mk III, D3 and D3s. I shoot mostly available dim stage light. After some 100K+ of RAW images I rate the 1Ds Mk III and 5D Mk III at ISO 3200. The D3 (D700) at 5400 and the D3s at 12,800.
There are, admittedly, comparisons between bodies-not related to any absolute standard.
Continuing the comparison by the "Transfer Standards" method I would rate the Mk IV at ISO 5100. The new D4 has more Mp but the same hi ISO performance.
The 1Dx claims 2 stops better than the Mk IV but that is only in camera noise processed JPEGs. Probable safe to assume both the 1Dx and 5D Mk III are 1 stop better hi ISO in RAW than the 5D Mk II and 1Ds Mk III. Any more than that remains to be seen.
p.3 #11 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
No one knows anything about 5D3 RAW performance yet because no RAW files have been published (well, Canon employees know but they're not telling :-) )
Canon claims two stops improvement (over 5D2) in JPGs but most of it seems to be coming from better NR during RAW->JPG conversion in-camera. At the same time Canon is being very coy about noise/DR improvement at the RAW level which is usually not a good sign.
The 5D3 full-resolution high-ISO JPGs that have been posted had been nuked with heavy NR, so it's hard to tell anything. At least there seems to be no banding in the shadows.
My best wild guess is that 5D3 is somewhere between half and one stop better than 5D2. But until we actually get RAWs to analyze, it's all peering at tea leaves...
p.3 #12 · Compare High ISO Perfromace 5DII vs 5DIII RAW
Dpreviews new RAW studio shot comparisons from the Nikon D4 suggest it's little better than the D3s in terms of high iso noise (and a stop and a half better than the 5DII/1DIV in the 6400-51200 ISO range) so Nikons improvements seem to be incremental at this stage too. If the 5DIII/1DX manage a 1 stop improvement in RAW over their predecessors they should at least be competitive.
