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Archive 2011 · very best wides for nex 5n......

  
 
wfrank
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p.4 #1 · very best wides for nex 5n......


philber wrote:
Why this requirement for slow optics, wfrank? And what is this ZE 21 f:3.5?


There are no fast alternatives.

ZE21/3.5 was a typo. There is a ZE 18/3.5 and a ZE 21/2.8, I meant to write 21/2.8.

Even though I really like the NEX, you start off by losing 2-3 steps because there are no 1.4's WAs, and then you lose another step FF vs APS-C. It's a lot, hence anything is slow. I should probably have phrased it better, but it is quite frustrating for such a enjoyable system the NEX represents.



Nov 29, 2011 at 05:51 PM
vallejo
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p.4 #2 · very best wides for nex 5n......


Any experiences with the Voigtlander 15/4.5 VM on NEX? I'm getting ready for the N7, and something in the 21-21 range will be fine...


Nov 29, 2011 at 07:09 PM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #3 · very best wides for nex 5n......


^ plenty, just look in the Nex image thread. There's a little colour shift in the corners on the 5N but's nice and sharp.
http://i.pbase.com/g4/63/551663/2/139762598.Fl5IHNTi.jpg
This is one with the Hawks adapter
http://i.pbase.com/g4/63/551663/2/139762508.9l0rtf6x.jpg
Mike



Nov 29, 2011 at 07:22 PM
vallejo
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p.4 #4 · very best wides for nex 5n......


Tks. I read something about the color issues on NEX 7 with WAs, guess on Huff's,but why should it happen? Can't figure it out...


Nov 29, 2011 at 07:36 PM
Sosua
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p.4 #5 · very best wides for nex 5n......


On the 5N I find the corner color shift is only an issue rarely (i.e. where there is a lot of white / grey at the edges).

Most of the time, you could only see it if you are looking really hard.

I haven't had to use cornerfix yet.



Nov 29, 2011 at 07:56 PM
uhoh7
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p.4 #6 · very best wides for nex 5n......


wfrank wrote:
Uhuh, congrats!

Still leaving the 5D2 at home with its all fast cheap and super-performing lenses - so I have against all odds started to think about really slow 18 or 21 lenses. The ZM 18/4 is praised very much, but what's the word on the ZM 21/4.5? That's super slow - on par with a long white excellent Canon tele. But what the heck, it's small

Or would it be betterto get the large ZE 21/3.5? - which I could use it on the 5D2 when eh... I want some slow optics on that.

EDIT: and then there is the Voigtländer
...Show more

Thanks for all the congratulations...yes I must admit, one of my better lens designs

But seriously, this issue of the great 21 is interesting.

The skopar is a hellva lens with centers like you cannot believe, tiny, weightless and cheap. But its downfall is the edges, as with so many afforable options. You don't even notice it much till you are working in large landscapes--and it may be possible to mitigate.

The ZM 21/4.5: great question. Who has one? My main source of gossip havs been down for a week--RFF.

My thinking right now is: daylight ZM 18 + leica 28/2; night time ZM 21/2.8 and CV 35/1.2, But the truth is I have not seen more than a handfull of ZM 21 samples on 5n-- from the fast or the slow.

here from nick at LL
"In my informal tests against the CV21, the lenses had matching center-resolution at all working apertures, though the ZM21 had perceptibly better resolution toward the edges and corners at f/4 and f/5.6. That said, the difference was small and only noticeable in a relatively close-up subject with very fine detail. By f/8 the two lenses were effectively identical in resolution. For daily use, I would take the CV21 over this lens on account of the size difference, notwithstanding the Biogon's marginal quality advantage."

While Rock Huffwell states:
"The Voigtländer 21mm f/4 or even the best 21mm SLR lens or zoom is nowhere near the performance of this Zeiss or the LEICA 21mm lenses.' (refering to the 21/2.8)

The ZM is 258 grams or so.

Apparently the rear node of the 4.5 is very deep.

Jack Flesher on the CV 21:

“ Well, as it just so happens... I had an opportunity to try out one of these little gems. Simply stated, in terms of resolution it performed at least as well as the 21P if not a bit better, and as such is not really very far behind the 21A. Its big faults were more significant falloff in the corners (maybe 2 1/2 stops?), more visible distortion in the corners, and the fact it is more flare-prone than either Leica 21.

from a nice page on many 21s:
http://nemeng.com/leica/029ba.shtml

here is the CV on the nex-5
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5179/5520945651_497e170d3f_b.jpg

with some extra PP on the color (was a flat day)
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5219/5520861867_df04c0c639_b.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5097/5435782520_4bab190f84_z.jpg

I think I need to do some more shooting with the 21 CV!



Nov 29, 2011 at 10:50 PM
Jacob D
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p.4 #7 · very best wides for nex 5n......


I recently test the CV 21/4 against several other lenses in similar FL including the OM 24/2.8, Sony 18-55 kit @ 28mm, and the Contax G 28/2.8.


Surprisingly, the kit lens is very good at this focal length (28mm), I think maybe it's peak performance is here. As far as sharpness is concerned I found it equal to the CV 21/4 both at the center and edges. The outcome is a little depressing depending on which lens you're rooting for! I tested at f2.8 (where possible), f5.6, and f11. f11 seemed to be the best, but I know most of these lenses are said to peak somewhere between 5.6 - 8, and I didn't test at f8. The good news (or bad ) is that the Sony does still show noticeable CA's at f5.6 and f11, where the CV is minimal to nil in that department.

I noted that at f11 both lenses were "very good" in the center, and "good" at the edges and corners, where "excellent" would have been about as good as you could want without moving up to high end SLR glass and/or an SLR with more resolution.

The Contax G was already "excellent" and "very good" at f5.6, and I didn't note a change at f11, if it peaks at f8 that would really be something. It's a superb lens. CA was essentially non existent at 5.6 and beyond. The adapter focusing offended my sensibilities, however. It still vexes me.

The Oly came in last, which was a bit of a disappointment. Maybe my lens/adapter/camera combo isn't producing good sharpness from it. I have seen some photos on the web that looked very good made by this lens. It improved dramatically from f5.6 to f11 though, and it may also peak at f8. I found at f5.6 the center was "acceptable" with corners "needing improvement", where unacceptable is the lowest rating. At f11 it improved to "good" and "acceptable". CA very minimal at 5.6, and non existent at f11.


My favorite, which I didn't mention above since the FL is a little longer is the CV 35/2.5. I found it to be better in the corners than the CZ G, and only slightly behind at the center (it was part of this "test" as well). Coming from Canon lenses the colors of the Skopar are much better balanced. Still punchy but the reds are in check for a change. I really like this lens; it's size and weight are perfect. For me, this is what the NEX is all about. I am sure there are better wides, but excluding the Leicas, I don't see any logic to putting SLR glass on the NEX when instead I can put it on my SLR where it balances and handles more naturally. That is my personal thought, I'm not trying to impose it on anyone else, but in that sense I think the CV 35/2.5 is one of the best 35's that can be paired with the NEX.

The Skopar 21 is not quite in the same league, but it's a very nice lens and I'm tempted to keep it because it shares the filter size with the 35/2.5. If I can find a CV 90 Lanthar that would make a nice landscape/travel kit all of which use tiny 39mm filters, so I *think* that's the direction I'm moving in, but at any rate I wanted to share my findings regarding the other lenses I've tinkered with.



edit: by the way, I found that *all* of the lenses mentioned above except the Sony have some color shift at the edges. I didn't see this until I had them in the fog yesterday. The Oly, CZ G, and CV 35/2.5 seem to have the least, the CV 21/4 has a little more. I am fiddling with various ways to correct this.



Nov 30, 2011 at 11:45 AM
JimBuchanan
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p.4 #8 · very best wides for nex 5n......


uhoh7 wrote:
Thanks for all the congratulations...yes I must admit, one of my better lens designs

But seriously, this issue of the great 21 is interesting.

The skopar is a hellva lens with centers like you cannot believe, tiny, weightless and cheap. But its downfall is the edges, as with so many afforable options. You don't even notice it much till you are working in large landscapes--and it may be possible to mitigate.

The ZM 21/4.5: great question. Who has one? My main source of gossip havs been down for a week--RFF.

My thinking right now is: daylight ZM 18 + leica 28/2; night time
...Show more

Are all these lens testimonials related to the NEX 5N camera as in the title of this thread?




Nov 30, 2011 at 12:12 PM
uhoh7
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p.4 #9 · very best wides for nex 5n......


JimBuchanan wrote:
Are all these lens testimonials related to the NEX 5N camera as in the title of this thread?



Trolling, Jim?

The 5n has been available for about 3 months. Obviously any lens "testimonial" is a hint. You never really learn how they are till it's too late

Most of the hard data is from the locals here.

What's your point?



Nov 30, 2011 at 12:45 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #10 · very best wides for nex 5n......


I think Jim is just asking whether all of the lens opinions here are related to the 5N, rather than the 5, no?


Nov 30, 2011 at 12:54 PM
Jacob D
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p.4 #11 · very best wides for nex 5n......


I don't know about the sources Uhoh listed, but my comments are specific to the 5N.


Nov 30, 2011 at 02:19 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.4 #12 · very best wides for nex 5n......


uhoh7 wrote:
Trolling, Jim?

The 5n has been available for about 3 months. Obviously any lens "testimonial" is a hint. You never really learn how they are till it's too late

Most of the hard data is from the locals here.

What's your point?


My point is that the "testimonials" quoted by you do not specifically state use with a NEX 5N camera and therefore don't really provide any insight into performance on a 5N camera. The quotes taken out of their original context loses the reference to camera used. The Leica M8/M9 were the cameras used to initially evaluate most of the lenses mentioned. It has been said that the ZM21/4.5 performs well on the M8, but due to its symetrical design produces color shifts on the M9. It depends on the camera how well a lens performs because of crop factors, micro lenses, etc.

I'm sure I'm not the only one anxious to hear how well the 5N performs in the corners with respect to sharpness and smearing. Jacob D's post about his experiences is very informative and he qualified his use with the 5N. I'm just saying that its hard enough to understand which wide lenses have good corner performance on the 5N (without stopping down to f/16), without the confusion of incomplete info.

As far as trolling is concerned, my comment was meant to keep the thread on-topic, not off, as I am very interested in this subject. If I've hit a nerve, do you know which cameras were used in your lens references? If they weren't used with a 5N and while being good quality lenses, wouldn't you consider the comments off-topic?







Nov 30, 2011 at 03:22 PM
uhoh7
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p.4 #13 · very best wides for nex 5n......


JimBuchanan wrote:
My point is that the "testimonials" quoted by you do not specifically state use with a NEX 5N camera and therefore don't really provide any insight into performance on a 5N camera. The quotes taken out of their original context loses the reference to camera used. The Leica M8/M9 were the cameras used to initially evaluate most of the lenses mentioned. It has been said that the ZM21/4.5 performs well on the M8, but due to its symetrical design produces color shifts on the M9. It depends on the camera how well a lens performs because of crop factors, micro
...Show more

Exactly, and since a close reading of my post and the entire thread makes the answer to your question clear--I'd use the term trolling. Clearly snarky at any rate, since by your own admission the intention of your question was not to gain information, but to police the thread

The whole point of the thread is to figure out which are the best wides for the 5n. We have to start somewhere. The fact that a lens opinion comes from m8 or m6 or f6 in no way precludes it's value as a clue to possible performance on the nex 5n.

on another note; interesting tidbit from Rock:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/m9/sharpness-28mm.htm



Nov 30, 2011 at 03:32 PM
Jacob D
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p.4 #14 · very best wides for nex 5n......


Well, I just learned that an offer I made on a CV 12mm LTM was just accepted, so it looks like that will be my solution for 'ultrawides' on 5N, of which there are few (SLR lenses excluded).

My hurdle now, is how should I go about making a good cornerfix profile for the lenses that need it, which seems to be "most of them" at this point? I had thought about taking a grey card to the home improvement store and having them color match it for a gallon of paint, then paint a sheet of plywood to use as a source for making profiles. Getting the reflectivity correct would not be possible, but probably good enough to produce good results with the software. I dunno, does this sound ridiculous?

How many of you have tested your wides in a nice neutral environment to see what the color shift looks like?



Nov 30, 2011 at 05:06 PM
mcbroomf
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p.4 #15 · very best wides for nex 5n......


I've seen little on the CV12. This is a repost of an image I shot some time ago on the 5N. This one is a blend but I did post the middle shot with no LR tweaks and the top skies looked normal (I don't have that shot any more). The 15mm is worse and I do want to create a profile for it.
http://i.pbase.com/o6/63/551663/1/138520393.1tPV5K6S.NewBedford_DSC0174_5_6_tonemapped.jpg
Mike



Nov 30, 2011 at 05:19 PM
JimBuchanan
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p.4 #16 · very best wides for nex 5n......


uhoh7 wrote:
Exactly, and since a close reading of my post and the entire thread makes the answer to your question clear--I'd use the term trolling. Clearly snarky at any rate, since by your own admission the intention of your question was not to gain information, but to police the thread

The whole point of the thread is to figure out which are the best wides for the 5n. We have to start somewhere. The fact that a lens opinion comes from m8 or m6 or f6 in no way precludes it's value as a clue to possible performance on the nex
...Show more

No, it was not clear. That's why I asked the question. If I asked the question, as I did, I'm trying to qualify what I read. Contrary to your clues to possible lens performance on the nex 5n, I'm not so sure anymore. I'm beginning to think the offset microlenses on the Leica sensors are a big deal compared to not having them.

Your assertion that I am trying to police the thread comes from the fact that I reacted to your acccusing me of trolling and now suggesting that the original comment was "clearly snarky", whatever that means.



Nov 30, 2011 at 05:20 PM
douglasf13
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p.4 #17 · very best wides for nex 5n......


Jacob D wrote:
Well, I just learned that an offer I made on a CV 12mm LTM was just accepted, so it looks like that will be my solution for 'ultrawides' on 5N, of which there are few (SLR lenses excluded).

My hurdle now, is how should I go about making a good cornerfix profile for the lenses that need it, which seems to be "most of them" at this point? I had thought about taking a grey card to the home improvement store and having them color match it for a gallon of paint, then paint a sheet of plywood to use
...Show more

What I've done (with the advice from others) is cover the lens with a white tissue and aim it into the clear sky, which gives you an even, diffused light. It's good to meter at least +2EV above midpoint.



Nov 30, 2011 at 05:20 PM
uhoh7
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p.4 #18 · very best wides for nex 5n......


or just buy a grey card on ebay for $6--but you may not have to bother, as noted above.

The real problem child was the 15, which is much better now, so maybe the 12 is as decent as the 21.

You will show us soon!

congrats on great lens!!



Nov 30, 2011 at 06:31 PM
dpap1978
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p.4 #19 · very best wides for nex 5n......


Ok, I have both the 5N and the Zeiss 21mm ZM 4.5. Today I did some rough tests. The lens exhibits some color vignetting, but less so that the M8. I examined the corners, and there is no evidence of corner smearing at f4.5. When I get some time, I will post some corner crops.


Nov 30, 2011 at 08:43 PM
Jacob D
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p.4 #20 · very best wides for nex 5n......


uhoh7 wrote:
or just buy a grey card on ebay for $6--but you may not have to bother, as noted above.

The real problem child was the 15, which is much better now, so maybe the 12 is as decent as the 21.

You will show us soon!

congrats on great lens!!


Thanks!

I think I will give Douglas' suggestion a try. The problem with a gray card is, it's not large enough to cover the entire frame at working distance. I suppose it could be placed close to the lens, as focus won't matter anyway (as in the tissue example).

I actually found the 21/4 to be "bad" compared to the 35/2.5, 40/1.4 (no colorshift to speak of), and Oly 50/1.8 which seems to have a little. If the 12 is in the ball park of the 21 I'll definitely want to Cornerfix it.


I suppose this is a little like the white balance trick with a coffee filter over the lens.

Douglas, have you made cornerfix profiles this way? I tried a couple on a light colored neutral wall, defocused it so there was no texture, and made my profile images. However when I use them it seems to brighten the photo quite a bit. I assumed this was due to my use of a light colored wall. I don't have any prior experience with Cornerfix though, so I don't know if my observation was correct or not. I thought I read somewhere that 18% gray is best to use for the profile. I know this is a little OT but in the context of wides for the NEX it's sort of relevant I guess.



Nov 30, 2011 at 09:02 PM
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