p.12 #1 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
I've seen many excellent NEX shots, but that says very little - I've seen excellent shots with much lesser cameras. So it has to be more specifically about the camera. Have I seen anything appealing in the output of the camera? Sure. There's something about Sony colors that can on occasion be very attractive (and some times over the top). Although not very interesting as photos as they're just test shots, here are a couple of examples where I see a Sony signature in the of the color rendering:
Having said that, the reason why I'm posting test shots rather than something 'real' is because I haven't used mine for anything but test shots. The reason is simple: I don't like it. It's not primarily because of IQ deficiencies but simply because I think it has a lousy design and using it is not enjoyable (handheld - it's OK from tripod).
As for size, it does fit in a coat pocket but clumsily so if you have a lens attached. Some sort of pancake may solve that, but for now the only camera I feel comfortable having in a coat pocket is an X1 - but even that is not comfortable enough for me to do it on a regular basis (plus I don't like it either).
Usually I have a shoulder bag with the camera and a couple of lenses and in that case it makes no difference if you are carrying a NEX or a Leica M. I'm using the same lenses on both so that makes no difference. Having said that, size does matter to me and why I settled on a C3 rather than a 5N after going back and forth between them. I realized that unless they radically change the design on some future NEX, I'll never love the camera and its purpose is to be an emergency backup M-mount camera should my rangefinder M die while I'm travelling. In that role being small is very good. Without a lens a C3 is truly tiny and light.
Putting it in a different way: If you are going to not use an ASP-C camera, a NEX is the ultimate camera not to use
p.12 #2 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
Makes sense. I think the M9 is another discussion entirely, as it is also quite a bit smaller than a FF DSLR, and that puts it in a unique class of its own.
I would think that the EVF option on a 5N or 7 would make the camera a little more usable for you handheld, no?
p.12 #3 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
denoir wrote:
Usually I have a shoulder bag with the camera and a couple of lenses and in that case it makes no difference if you are carrying a NEX or a Leica M. I'm using the same lenses on both so that makes no difference. Having said that, size does matter to me and why I settled on a C3 rather than a 5N after going back and forth between them. I realized that unless they radically change the design on some future NEX, I'll never love the camera and its purpose is to be an emergency backup M-mount camera should my rangefinder M die while I'm travelling. In that role being small is very good. Without a lens a C3 is truly tiny and light.
Putting it in a different way: If you are going to not use an ASP-C camera, a NEX is the ultimate camera not to use ...Show more →
did you try out the evf at all on the 5N?
i would think the NEX plus hawk's helicoid adapter would be worth sticking in your bag just for the occasions when you want to shoot closeup.
edit: those might be minolta colors more than sony...
p.12 #4 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
douglasf13 wrote:
Makes sense. I think the M9 is another discussion entirely, as it is also quite a bit smaller than a FF DSLR, and that puts it in a unique class of its own.
I would think that the EVF option on a 5N or 7 would make the camera a little more usable for you handheld, no?
Probably - I have not tried the EVF and I'm guessing it would make a substantial difference. The NEX-7 might be interesting. But I don't know, I feel somehow that camera design has been going downhill for a long time and that the NEX is currently the king of the hill of poor industrial design.
Don't take me wrong, the M9 is a poor specimen as well - Leica's adaptation of the M line to digital is a lousy one. The only reason why it is nice to use is the fundamentally good design that was made 50 years ago. Almost all the additions have been detrimental. Rather than following the design principles of the original M (form follows function) they've violated it by making a digital camera by changes to a fundamentally different design - a film camera. Ultimately that's what the M9 remains - a film camera with a digital back where the very limited digital functionality is implemented haphazardly. And it's not as good a film camera as for instance the M6 is. It's the equivalent of taking a good horse drawn carriage and putting a combustion engine in it. It won't be a car and it won't any more be a good horse drawn carriage.
DSLRs are not excepted - they stink as well. They've just beefed up film SLRs made them big and clumsy while not being substantially different in capability. I think the mirrorless cameras have the highest potential, but they still all suck big time and none of the companies have bothered to actually design one properly.
What I would really want is for somebody to design a modern camera that is as good a digital camera as the M3 was a film camera. I don't see that happening though. Not with the current players on the market.
Apple could have perhaps pulled it off and done a good job, but without Steve Jobs as the driving force, I'm not sure. They do understand the principles of good industrial design.
p.12 #5 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
denoir wrote:
Probably - I have not tried the EVF and I'm guessing it would make a substantial difference. The NEX-7 might be interesting. But I don't know, I feel somehow that camera design has been going downhill for a long time and that the NEX is currently the king of the hill of poor industrial design.
The NEX without the EVF has the same horrible ergonomics as a P&S, with the addition of Sony's horrible menu system. The EVF on the NEX-5N transforms it into a different camera. All the buttons seem to be in the right spot when my eye is pressed against the EVF and I have all the control I need (I shoot manual so the rear dial is shutter speed, the center button I've configured for ISO, and the aperture is controlled via the aperture ring on my MF lenses).
p.12 #6 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
denoir wrote:
Probably - I have not tried the EVF and I'm guessing it would make a substantial difference. The NEX-7 might be interesting. But I don't know, I feel somehow that camera design has been going downhill for a long time and that the NEX is currently the king of the hill of poor industrial design.
What I would really want is for somebody to design a modern camera that is as good a digital camera as the M3 was a film camera. I don't see that happening though. Not with the current players on the market.
Apple could have perhaps pulled it off and done a good job, but without Steve Jobs as the driving force, I'm not sure. They do understand the principles of good industrial design. ...Show more →
Denoir, you got me curious...how exactly would this camera be? You are clearly not very happy with anyone...
p.12 #7 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
Having used the 5n for a little while I'm not sure I like it as much as the x100, not am I sure the output with contax is better than the x1. Of course both of those are fixed lenses...and clearly I need faster lenses, 28/2.8 is a nice lens, it's just not the right combo for me.
Not that it should stack up, but the 35L and 5d2 deliver substantially better results than the nex and contax g 28. I'd guess most of that is on the sensor.
My opinion could change for sure, I've had very little time with the 5n, but it is somewhat annoying in use so far.
Snapsy, that sounds like a reasonable setup..how do you zoom in for focus?
Te problem of course with the 5d2 is its far too big to be unobtrusive. I know many will say I can blend in with it...maybe!...but not often.
p.12 #8 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
After using the 5N for a couple of days I too find the 5N fiddly after handling the X100 extensively. On the bright side, at least the OK/control ring isn't subject to misfiring to the same degree as the X100's. I guess I should explore the menus and/or finally open the manual and do some button customization.
Output wise the 5N doesn't make me miss the X100 -- that's an early impression. Must. shoot. more.
p.12 #9 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
h00ligan wrote:
Snapsy, that sounds like a reasonable setup..how do you zoom in for focus?
Te problem of course with the 5d2 is its far too big to be unobtrusive. I know many will say I can blend in with it...maybe!...but not often.
I use button B. I hear you about the 5D2 - there's no getting around the lower optical magnification of FF besting a crop sensor, esp. when shooting at the wider apertures where lens performance is more marginal.
p.12 #11 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
denoir wrote:
Apple could have perhaps pulled it off and done a good job, but without Steve Jobs as the driving force, I'm not sure. They do understand the principles of good industrial design.
Apple is the king of dumbing down function for the sake of form. They might be able to make a camera that sells well, but this forum wouldn't like it. I don't actually think the current cameras are the far off, actually.
p.12 #12 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
denoir wrote:
DSLRs are not excepted - they stink as well
I love this guy
You've only got one thing wrong: it was the SP not the M3
Leica still hasn't caught up.
It's funny about the ergo thing. I find the nex super easy---except the LCD and now that's taken care of pretty well--though I can't find one. Plenty of others just hate it.
It's all about priorities. If you are in love with your 5D (not you denior ) you can convince yourself its hardly any bigger than the n5n, I guess, and you can go on to believe it's a great casual shooter.
Others will look at that monstrousity and see it for the ugly impractical brick it truly is.
That guy took his m9 to afghanistan...after it fell in the pool. The Iraq stuff is shot alot with m8 and m7 so I guess some of you can't be wowed. Thank god I'm not so jaded.
p.12 #13 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
Anyone considering medium format should calculate the weight and size before making any decisions Generally a body with a standard lens weighs about 2kg, and each additional (and larger) lens weighs significantly more. It is the same situation as with, say, a 5N and 3-4 lenses weighing the same as the FF camera with one lens, only this time the small camera is the FF camera.
I am not saying don't do it, but definitely calculate it out very carefully, and carry around a few bricks in a bag for practice before laying down the around $20000+ needed for a body and 2-3 lenses.
The workflow is also much less convenient, and the tools are more crude. The Pentax might be an exception here, as may the S2, but see my "A Hasselblad Day" thread.
Of course, also consider whether the FF camera was "not good enough" before going this route. If you don't need more MP/more IQ than a good FF camera can give, then why go this route at all? Just because you bought a NEX doesn't suddenly increase your needs on the high end.
p.12 #14 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
uhoh7 wrote:
So let me ask you carsten, when you run to the store, does the D3 go with you?
Double-edged answer: I don't go to the store, but I carry the D3 with me every day. Literally (and that is the literal sense of the word, not the fashionable American usage for general emphasis).
p.12 #16 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
Jeff Kott wrote:
So for those for whom APS will never be good enough irrespective of any possible advantages, why do you even enter into the discussions any more? Are you trying to convince those of us who are happy with our APS sensors or are you trying to convince yourselves?
Because the discussions keep happening.
I think it is a mistake to go from a 5DII to a NEX camera. The drop in IQ is too large: sharpness, ISO, FF look. I think it makes more sense to get an even smaller camera for when IQ is not an issue, and keep the FF camera for when it is. And apparently, there are some people who miss a bit of IQ after starting to use a NEX, and are now looking at medium format, because FF is too close Why rotate the world around the NEX? Keep FF and get a m4/3 or Nikon 1.
p.12 #18 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
carstenw wrote:
Shrink the M9 slightly to M6 dimensions, give it an X100-style viewfinder and live view, maybe an extra button for ISO, and done.
drop all the design elements that served a purpose with film but are now purely vestigial. make the battery and memory card easily accessible. take advantage of the lack of any need to hold rolls of film to change the dimensions a bit to minimize volume and fit a hand better without the need for a fake film advance lever. make all the bits that need to be electronic be modern and high end electronics. give it a higher max shutter speed, IBIS, and the ability to shoot telephoto and macro.
p.12 #19 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
carstenw wrote:
Anyone considering medium format should calculate the weight and size before making any decisions Generally a body with a standard lens weighs about 2kg, and each additional (and larger) lens weighs significantly more. It is the same situation as with, say, a 5N and 3-4 lenses weighing the same as the FF camera with one lens, only this time the small camera is the FF camera.
I am not saying don't do it, but definitely calculate it out very carefully, and carry around a few bricks in a bag for practice before laying down the around $20000+ needed for a body and 2-3 lenses.
The workflow is also much less convenient, and the tools are more crude. The Pentax might be an exception here, as may the S2, but see my "A Hasselblad Day" thread.
Of course, also consider whether the FF camera was "not good enough" before going this route. If you don't need more MP/more IQ than a good FF camera can give, then why go this route at all? Just because you bought a NEX doesn't suddenly increase your needs on the high end....Show more →
As an owner of two Hasselblad 500s and two NEX cameras, and a former owner of a Leaf digital back and A900, I'm pretty familiar with the size and weight differences. At my current print size, the Nex is fine. If I wanted to print bigger or work professionally again, I'd consider getting another digital back. As I mentioned, if someone made a FF dslr as small as it could be, I'd consider it, and the m9 has tempted me many times, but current FF DSLRs aren't the right compromise for me, and I'd bet that most would have a hard time distinguishing between my A900 and NEX prints.
p.12 #20 · Giving up 5D II for NEX? My experience in Japan
I like the x100 design. I also like the "retro" shutter speed dial. I like how my d700 feels compared to my nex-5 though, it is not that the nex-5 is built badly, it is just that the d700 is such a brick.
So what do I really want?
I want a zeiss ikon, just with a digital sensor, just a bump where the film rewind is for thumb-rest, evf/ovf-hybrid. I want it to be utterly solid and heavy for it's size. I want it to be moisture resistant. I want it to be fullframe.. and I wan tit to accept m-mount lenses.
