p.2 #3 · How many trust there raw files to editors
I will NEVER deliver a raw file. They DO NOT need a raw file for any reason. I edit my shoots and deliver a finished product. It is usually very small magazines and agencies that ask for stupid things like this and I don't give in. If they are going to screw up one of my shots and believe me they have done all kinds of stupid things they are going to do it with a finalized image. If they don't like it they can feel free to hire someone else. I also NEVER allow a client to see images that aren't edited to cull the bad ones. I let one client one time look at all the shots and now I get to see a shot that should have never been printed let alone in a full page double spread. They get what I want to put out, again if they don't like this they can hire someone else.
Nov 23, 2011 at 04:14 AM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #4 · How many trust there raw files to editors
sputnik wrote:
I'm curious; for what reasons are so many photographers hesitant to release the raw-file? This is a genuine question btw, so don't get all upset on me now
I wonder the same thing all the time.
I can only guess its some sort of detached from reality forum type thing like a lot of the other flawed mantra's that get bandidied about.
Years ago publications wanted trannies which they had just as much opportunity to vary as they do with digital files.
I never cease to be amazed how so many shooters take the attitude of "I rather not be paid and theerefore render my images worthless and useless than let someone else touch them because I'm the only person in the world that can make them look decent".
As for only producing a finished product, guess what? So is the publication!
They have their own style and look that they want to convey to their clients and being their product is the real final one, I guess by some peoples own position, the Publication has the rights to the final say don't they??
Me, I'm in this business to make money not pretty pictures that are worthless sitting on my Hdd's. I sell diigtal files all the time ( as in weekly) and I have yet to see once that a client bastardised them or did anything to ruin my reputation as a shooter that so many on forums tout as such a terrible risk. In any case, it's rare to get your name alongside the picture in most things I do so even if it's a crap pic, whats going to happen? Do people propose that there will be a flood of people ringing to ask' Can you tell me who took that shocking picture so I can tell the world never to use them again?"
Not likley!
If was building a house and I wanted to choose the decor and the builder told me he was the only one that could select the colour the walls were painted, the type of fixtures and fittings and the brand of appliances because it was his work and he didn't let anyone else touch his homes, I'd laugh at him and so would everyone else.
If I'm the customer and paying the bill, I want what I bloody want and if someone is so pedantic about -Their- work, i'll find someone else to give my money to that can do what i want and am PAYING for.
I don't see why it should work any different for my clients. Or are we photographers so special as artists that we are entitled to tell the client what they must have and pay us for?
Good luck with that attitude!
And I'm certainly not trying to dissuade anyone from the attitude of "Only I know what the client is allowed to have" because I have already benifited from that numerous times and I wish everyone was the same because it would open up even more opportunities for me to simply sell the client what they want.
Nov 23, 2011 at 05:06 AM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #5 · How many trust there raw files to editors
sputnik wrote:
I'm curious; for what reasons are so many photographers hesitant to release the raw-file? This is a genuine question btw, so don't get all upset on me now
I wonder the same thing all the time.
I can only guess its some sort of detached from reality forum type thing like a lot of the other flawed mantra's that get bandidied about.
Years ago publications wanted trannies which they had just as much opportunity to vary as they do with digital files.
I never cease to be amazed how so many shooters take the attitude of "I rather not be paid and theerefore render my images worthless and useless than let someone else touch them because I'm the only person in the world that can make them look decent".
Me, I'm in this business to make money not pretty pictures that are worthless sitting on my Hdd's. I sell diigtal files all the time ( as in weekly) and I have yet to see once that a client bastardised them or did anything to ruin my reputation as a shooter that so many on forums tout as such a terrible risk. In any case, it's rare to get your name alongside the picture in most things I do so even if it's a crap pic, whats going to happen? Do people propose that there will be a flood of people ringing to ask' Can you tell me who took that shocking picture so I can tell the world never to use them again?"
Not likley!
If was building a house and I wanted to choose the decor and the builder told me he was the only one that could select the colour the walls were painted, the type of fixtures and fittings and the brand of appliances because it was his work and he didn't let anyone else touch his homes, I'd laugh at him and so would everyone else.
If I'm the customer and paying the bill, I want what I bloody want and if someone is so pedantic about -Their- work, i'll find someone else to give my money to that can do what i want and am PAYING for.
I don't see why it should work any different for my clients. Or are we photographers so special as artists that we are entitled to tell the client what they must have and pay us for?
Good luck with that attitude!
And I'm certainly not trying to dissuade anyone from the attitude of "Only I know what the client is allowed to have" because I have already benifited from that numerous times and I wish everyone was the same because it would open up even more opportunities for me to simply sell the client what they want.
p.2 #6 · How many trust there raw files to editors
What does your contract say will be delivered? Who agreed to pay for the post work?
Photographers I have spoken to in advertising have told me it's common practice to turn over their files and the client's creative team handle the rest. Other areas of photography it's different.
p.2 #7 · How many trust there raw files to editors
The plans for the automobile are not the delivered product. The nude photos of the model without makeup are not what the client is paying for when they want a clothed image of a beautiful woman.
No auto manufacturer or model would have a lasting career if you got the full make unedited version of themselves and the engineering plans.
p.2 #8 · How many trust there raw files to editors
"I sell diigtal files all the time "
I am yet to sell a image to anyone. I license them with clear language as to the fact that I own them. I even state limitations of use. There are even certain lifestyles that I will not allow to be depicted with my images or published in certain magazines. My clients don't have a problem with any of this.
"If was building a house"
Thats funny, you are not even talking about the same thing. Of course you own the house and can paint it highway stripe yellow, if you were my client I would own my image, you would pay me and you get the rights to use it, end of story. If what a certain photographer produces does not fit your needs hire someone else, you seem to forget that photographers own our work and want it to represent us.
"If I'm the customer and paying the bill, I want what I bloody want and if someone is so pedantic about -Their- work, i'll find someone else to give my money to that can do what i want and am PAYING for."
Fine, hire someone who will kiss your ass, you hire most pros for what we do and you get what we do. This is like buying a painting and repainting parts of it, find a different painter or photographer and don't waste our time with " I need the raw files". Photographers create a image in a certain way and adjusting the raw file is part of it so why should we allow someone else to decide the final outcome of our work? I decide the final outcome of my images, I have clients that have used me for 9 years, if someone wants me to allow them to determine my final image they can find someone else. That's what most of you will never understand, if someone else (client) adjusts your raw files and finishes the images then you should not be in this business. You should take pride in what you do and turning out completed files is part of it. Several of you only care about getting paid and if thats what they want they get it, well not from me and my business is fine without customers like that.
Having a raw file can also be used against you as them owning it just like them holding negatives, like I said I don't sell anything and never will. Without a raw file a client is going to have a hard time proving they own a image, another reason to NEVER let them have them. Same with transparencies, when I shot film I would show the transparencies and they would select and I would leave with it to scan, clean and finalize the image, no way I would just let them float around.
p.2 #9 · How many trust there raw files to editors
Mark_L wrote:
What does your contract say will be delivered? Who agreed to pay for the post work?
Photographers I have spoken to in advertising have told me it's common practice to turn over their files and the client's creative team handle the rest. Other areas of photography it's different.
There are shots I have done that my clients could never have created because they are multiple shots that were used like sky files, turf files and so on that have been cut out and put together and they don't have access to my files so the shot would have never looked the same.
p.2 #10 · How many trust there raw files to editors
marioalessi wrote:
The plans for the automobile are not the delivered product. The nude photos of the model without makeup are not what the client is paying for when they want a clothed image of a beautiful woman.
No auto manufacturer or model would have a lasting career if you got the full make unedited version of themselves and the engineering plans.
The majority of the people who responded to the OP also "understand it"