Now now guys... Its all good... lets just let it go.
BubbaJon - you did see to be a bit nit-picky on my project, thats all. No biggie, really Your entitled to your opinion. You wrote out in detail how my project could be "better" in your eyes, and I see your point loud and clear... but I still disagree and prefer my shooting style over your recommended "improvements".
But I got your point. If it was your project, you would of framed tighter and shot in portrait, or you would of framed looser, but stopped down more. Simple enough and there's logic behind it. But were dealing with art here, and there's no structrued rules to art. And logic doesn't always apply... in fact, art & logic oppose more often then not.
I however, and overall like my framing and aperture selection more then your visualized 'improvment' to my project. Its all just opinions, not gospel.
Example: You can take work from some of the greatest photographers in the world, post em' on a forum for C&C and they will get nitpicked apart. Thats a photography forum for ya.
On the flip side, you can see the most simple, unskilled photographs posted on flickr, but because they are taken of a very pretty girl, they make it to Explored with 125 comments. That or some develop a "flickr following" and become popular and receive 125 comments on a photo, even if its a shot of a Lucky Charms cereal box.
In the end... its all good. Photography is full of subjective opinions.
m.shalaby wrote:
Now now guys... Its all good... lets just let it go.
BubbaJon - you did see to be a bit nit-picky on my project, thats all. No biggie, really Your entitled to your opinion. You wrote out in detail how my project could be "better" in your eyes, and I see your point loud and clear... but I still disagree and prefer my shooting style over your recommended "improvements".
But I got your point. If it was your project, you would of framed tighter and shot in portrait, or you would of framed looser, but stopped down more. Simple enough and there's logic behind it. But were dealing with art here, and there's no structrued rules to art. And logic doesn't always apply... in fact, art & logic oppose more often then not.
I however, and overall like my framing and aperture selection more then your visualized 'improvment' to my project. Its all just opinions, not gospel.
Example: You can take work from some of the greatest photographers in the world, post em' on a forum for C&C and they will get nitpicked apart. Thats a photography forum for ya.
On the flip side, you can see the most simple, unskilled photographs posted on flickr, but because they are taken of a very pretty girl, they make it to Explored with 125 comments. That or some develop a "flickr following" and become popular and receive 125 comments on a photo, even if its a shot of a Lucky Charms cereal box.
In the end... its all good. Photography is full of subjective opinions.
Overall - Lets agree to disagree. ...Show more →
Sorry - I really did seem to get off the mark. I would be the last to suggest you change your vision just to make me happy. What I was suggesting was to reexamine your assertions. Admittedly I based that on some semantics that might not be shared. Let me try to make it more clear - you gave *reasons* for the framing and the bokeh. Thus it seemed like you were saying that it wasn't so much a personal preference, but rather a choice you made to convey your vision.
I think of preferences as your goal - this is what *I* want. It has become obvious in our dialog this is why you used the framing and the bokeh the way you did - it was your goal to make them thus. Your vision and thus unassailable by me or anyone else. We either like it or we don't. Choices on the other hand can be flexible and they can be refined. This is where you say "I made this decision 'Y' because I wanted to convey 'X'". Now the goal is X and the choices made to arrive there are 'Y' and it's a bit more fuzzy. I try to see your stated goal and say perhaps if this Y were played with in this way it might lead to an improved X. But it's all guessing because I can't possibly know what your vision is - nobody can. We can only offer constructive commentary and suggestions on what we might do in your place with a stated goal that is filtered through *our* vision.
To a certain extent that is possible because we do share a certain amount of commonality. We also share a fierce independence in how we see things. This is what causes friction on occasion. We sort of assume that when we post work here it is for purpose of obtaining *constructive * criticism which I thought I was delivering. It is always a problem on the boards to determine why a work is posted. Not to oversimplify but usually it's either up for criticism or for peer recognition. You did not ask for C&C so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it was not received well since it wasn't asked for. At the risk of bugging you further I would ask that you look at a members stats before making certain commentary. I've been registered on this forum for many moons now and I assure you that I do understand art, artistry and the implications thereof - no need to lecture me on it.
*sigh* - I'm growing wearing of going back and forth with you, and I'm simply amazed at how much time and energy you have put into giving me "constructive criticism" on telling me how you think my project could be better. Really. Just amazed. You must have loads of time on your hands.
And for the record, I tried to take the hi-road before, but I'll be honest. I'm in full agreement with wickerprints. Your entire approach to this thread and me was combative.
Your "advice".. Well, lets go back and read your first piece of "advice" - "you need to turn your camera to portrait". Hold the phone? - I don't "need" to do anything! Thats where you started to come off as... how did wickerprints put it....? Lacking "social" skills.
And then lets look at your first sentence of your lenthy rant"then why shoot with the 135L wide open?" Completely combative and argumentitive. I saw it and just let it slide, but I'm glad wickerprints pointed it out so I didn't have to.
Lastly, get over your post count. I saw your post count - and it means absolutley nothing to me. I have over 2700 post on another photography forum. What does that prove? That I have a lot of post. It means nothing.
What I do put stock in is talent, and judging on your photo's posted on flickr... well... I'll just say happy Bee shooting... and that you have absolutley zero room to give anyone portrait advice being you don't shoot portraiture. Perhaps thats why your "improvments" to me are quickly being dismissed.
Post counts mean nothing to me. Talent does. And lets just say I wont be making you a contact on flickr to follow your photo's for inspiration.
This is my last response to you. I don't have the time/energy to keep responding and justifying my portrait project to a macro & lanscape photographer (and I must honestly say, a bad one at that).
If you were Lachlan Bailey or Mark DeLong then I would take your advice to heart... but you really have zero room to give me any advice.
BubbaJon wrote:
At the risk of bugging you further I would ask that you look at a members stats before making certain commentary. I've been registered on this forum for many moons now and I assure you that I do understand art, artistry and the implications thereof - no need to lecture me on it.
I mean, that kinda says it all right there, doesn't it? News flash: It's not all about YOU. The OP did no such "lecturing" of the sort. And here you think that it's somehow important that others recognize and respect your views on the basis of your post count?
It's arrogant, condescending, passive-aggressive, and completely distasteful. You took a perfectly fine thread with really lovely work, and polluted it with your own warped sense of self-importance. And I suspect that much of the reason why is because your ego doesn't permit you to feel any sincere acknowledgement that maybe, JUST MAYBE, someone else is more talented, more insightful, and more capable of an artist than you are, and the only way you can reconcile your self-image is to find whatever small excuse to knock them down a notch or two.
Seriously, it's not as if I relish having to put others in their place or calling them out like this. But such behavior is just so egregious and the OP is so clearly deserving of so much better, that this is the most restraint I could muster in defending them.
Just get over yourself already and leave the rest of us to enjoy the OP's work for what it is--a pure expression of portraiture.
^ Thank you wickerprints. Glad I'm not the only one to find his approach to this thread as, well, just like you said: arrogant, condecending, passive-aggressive and distasteful.
- ok. My bad - you guys just *want* to make a deal out of it so I'm done. I made a genuine effort to explain myself because it appeared I was being taken in a way that was assuredly not intended.
I was indeed handed a lecture. - Both of you have a severe case of the pot calling the kettle black with lack of social graces, arrogance, and just plain mean-spirited remarks attacking me personally as well as my work. You guys are really a piece of work - wickerprints in particular as I held you in high regard. I can honestly say I have never EVER stooped to that level of personal attack. You don't like me - fine plonk me.
squareeyez wrote:
Man... you have the nicest people in the world where you live! Love your posts
I'm reminded of a little story that might help explain part of Mr. Shalaby's success:
There once was a man who fell on some hard times that forced him to leave his town. He loaded up his wagon and headed west. After a few days, he stopped at the little store on the outskirts of a pretty village. He spoke with the owner, explaining his situation and then remarked: "This is a pretty little town, I might want to settle here. Tell me about the villagers." The shopkeeper replied: "Gladly, but first tell me a little about your former neighbors." "Oh, they were horrible." the man replied. "They were unfriendly and sometimes downright mean. I'm glad to be rid of them.". The shopkeeper replied: "You best be moving on. The folks around here are no different."
A week or so later another man down on his luck stopped at the store, asking the same questions. When the shopkeeper asked him about those in his former town, the man replied: "They are the most wonderful people on earth! They'd do anything for you. My biggest regret about my situation is having to leave my dear friends." "You've found a new home!" replied the shopkeeper. "You'll find the folks here just like your old friends and I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms."
I think I've just fallen in love with that first girl :P
That shot is just so cute and playful, but they're all great.
I noticed you used a range of processing techniques - particularly the one 2 above the 2nd B&W. Any particular reason why you went for that look there, if you don't mind me asking?
I feel stupid for only using the 135L for indoor sports! (not that I could ever duplicate your work) These photos are wonderful. Thanks for posting them.
Your entitled to your opinion. You wrote out in detail how my project could be "better" in your eyes, and I see your point loud and clear... but I still disagree and prefer my shooting style over your recommended "improvements".
- ok. My bad - you guys just *want* to make a deal out of it so I'm done. I made a genuine effort to explain myself because it appeared I was being taken in a way that was assuredly not intended.