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Archive 2011 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount

  
 
LightShow
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p.1 #1 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Looks like Nikons mirrorless will be close to 2.5x crop.
http://nikonrumors.com/2011/07/21/picture-of-nikons-mirrorless-camera-mount.aspx/
Picture of the mount and sensor of upcoming Nikon mirrorless camera named “X810″
http://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Nikon-Mirrorless-Camera-X810.jpeg

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/07/22/the-picture-of-the-nikon-mirrorless-mount-is-real.aspx/
Nikon officially requested the Chinese forum Xitek to remove the entire post containing the camera code name and the picture. The post is now gone.



Edited on Aug 03, 2011 at 07:02 PM · View previous versions



Jul 22, 2011 at 01:51 PM
jwin
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p.1 #2 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Seems Nikon is wasting their time with 2.5x sensor there.

All they have to do is design and release an electronically compatible MFT-Nikon lens mount adapter supporting all electronic communications between MFT body and the Nikon lens.

After that just mark up 10% on all Nikon lens prices and just rake in the $$.



Jul 22, 2011 at 02:15 PM
Bifurcator
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p.1 #3 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


I generally agree with that.

But WTH are they thinking going smaller? Everyone wants a FF mirrorless right? A 2:1 CF is bad enough with it's low DR. Why would anyone want smaller with even less DR? Has Nikon been asleep all this time or do I have it bass-ackwards?



Jul 22, 2011 at 02:45 PM
douglasf13
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p.1 #4 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Interesting. So, in mirrorless ILC, we could have:

Pentax Q: 5.5x crop (I believe)
Nikon: 2.5x crop
m4/3: 2x crop
Sony/Samsung: 1.5x crop
Canon:

It'll be interesting to see where the market determines the sweet spot is. Undoubtedly, we'll have users of each system claiming that their sensor is as good as the next one bigger.



Jul 22, 2011 at 02:46 PM
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p.1 #5 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Not if they know WTH they're talking about.

Oh, wait... that's what you meant right.




Jul 22, 2011 at 02:50 PM
Mr.Lindy
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p.1 #6 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


I think you're right, Pentax Q has a crop factor larger than 5x.

About 2/3 down this Image Resource Q link is a side by side image comparing Q sensor size to Panny GF3 sensor:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/PENTAXQ/PENTAXQA.HTM


These even smaller sensor ILC options are making m43 more appealing to me.

I wonder if Nikon will follow Pentax Q lead on high price ?

I paid $120 less for my top of the line in 2008 Pentax Dslr brand new than Pentax Q will cost in 2011.



Here's another Pentax Q product image string, towards the bottom Q's tiny P&S sized sensor compared to Nikon D3x.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/PENTAXQ/PENTAXQ-productshots.html



douglasf13 wrote:
Interesting. So, in mirrorless ILC, we could have:

Pentax Q: 5.5x crop (I believe)
Nikon: 2.5x crop
m4/3: 2x crop
Sony/Samsung: 1.5x crop
Canon:

It'll be interesting to see where the market determines the sweet spot is. Undoubtedly, we'll have users of each system claiming that their sensor is as good as the next one bigger.




Jul 23, 2011 at 05:44 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #7 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


2.5X crop would be a total waste....


Jul 23, 2011 at 06:02 AM
ricardovaste
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p.1 #8 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


I've heard of thinking small and working you way up but... come on ;-).

I think this is where it starts to make more sense... what people spoke of some years ago where the "consumer electronics" brands will have an advantage going forwards, where as camera brands are more centered on building cameras, the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung etc can bring experience and resources from all sorts of different areas.

Then Nikon and Pentax bring out some odd looking toys, I dunno, seems like they're stumbing to me. Although, some people seem to think an APS-C Pentax mirrorless is around the corner so hopefully I'm completely wrong...



Jul 23, 2011 at 06:12 AM
photosmart42
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p.1 #9 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Well, at the very least it'll make the mirrorless concept gain credibility of sorts. People will try this camera, realize they'll want more IQ, and start looking around for an alternative. I think it's unlikely that Nikon's IQ on its first generation mirrorless camera with a smaller sensor will trump what by then will be 4th or 5th generation mirrorless solutions from Panasonic, Olympus, and Sony with their larger sensor.

Still, I recognize that there will be a market out there for a smaller mirrorless camera. It's not my market demographic, but I'm not a typical consumer.



Jul 23, 2011 at 09:02 AM
redisburning
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p.1 #10 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


this doesnt make much sense to me.

IMO the camera market is going to push to the two extemes: phones and large sensor cameras.

large sensor cameras dont have to be large physically, but need to offer enough of a quality improvement to convince regular consumers that it's worth toting around yet another device.

I mean, in 10 years I think average people will carry only a phone. the phone will be your camera, your wallet and your keys. who will want to carry an extra piece of crap around? people who care about photography or having a pocket knife; that sort of thing.

I like small cameras, but Im not going over to digital until I can go out at noon in the Texas summer and shoot ultra high contrast Ralph Gibson style. I wish Nikon would fit a full frame sensor in a tiny, tiny camera with no mirror, not do this.



Jul 23, 2011 at 11:04 AM
sebboh
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p.1 #11 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


i think you guys are operating under the mistaken impression that this camera is somehow aimed at you or that you represent a large chunk of the buying public. this camera is aimed at people for whom µ4/3, NEX, and NX are too big (there are a lot more of these people than people who own dslrs). people who want the same size as a p&s (even with a zoom) but better image quality. there are even some pros who would like this - those who prefer a the canon G series to current mirrorless offerings for their quick camera. i doubt i'll want one, but i'm not sure this isn't a good idea. i'll have to see what the final product is like.


Jul 23, 2011 at 11:13 AM
mikethevilla
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p.1 #12 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


I looked it up a while back, and if I recall correctly the iPhone 4's camera is 1/2.7". Not that it's comparable in anyway, but I find it interesting that the Pentax Q's sensor is just barely bigger.

I'm in the camp of Four Thirds or bigger, but it seems like Nikon is going a bit smaller.



Jul 23, 2011 at 11:19 AM
Keith B.
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p.1 #13 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


sebboh wrote:
i think you guys are operating under the mistaken impression that this camera is somehow aimed at you or that you represent a large chunk of the buying public. this camera is aimed at people for whom µ4/3, NEX, and NX are too big (there are a lot more of these people than people who own dslrs). people who want the same size as a p&s (even with a zoom) but better image quality. there are even some pros who would like this - those who prefer a the canon G series to current mirrorless offerings for their quick camera.
...Show more

This is all valid, but didn't one of the VPs at Nikon give interviews to the photo press a few months ago saying something to the effect that "our small camera will be 'professional'"?



Jul 23, 2011 at 07:31 PM
sirimiri
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p.1 #14 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


Why bother with all the complexity of an interchangeable system, then give it an eensy sensor?

I would have enjoyed being a part of that focus group.



Jul 23, 2011 at 08:42 PM
LightShow
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p.1 #15 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


I'd love to have a hand in designing a camera.

Take an OM 2n, make it digital, FF sensor, reduce the registration distance, 3mp EVF with a fast refresh, done.



Jul 23, 2011 at 08:57 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #16 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


LightShow wrote:
I'd love to have a hand in designing a camera.

Take an OM 2n, make it digital, FF sensor, reduce the registration distance, 3mp EVF with a fast refresh, done.


i'd buy that. how much does it cost and how much do the lenses cost? more importantly, can i put a summilux on it? one would think somebody's bound to do that sometime... i'd really prefer it didn't have the viewfinder hump of the OM2 though. put evf off to the side like a rangefinder viewfinder.

Keith B. wrote:
This is all valid, but didn't one of the VPs at Nikon give interviews to the photo press a few months ago saying something to the effect that "our small camera will be 'professional'"?


beats me, was it a marketing VP? professional is a pretty vague term.



Jul 23, 2011 at 09:14 PM
photosmart42
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p.1 #17 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


LightShow wrote:
I'd love to have a hand in designing a camera.

Take an OM 2n, make it digital, FF sensor, reduce the registration distance, 3mp EVF with a fast refresh, done.


Better yet, take a Leica M9, give it live view and a hybrid VF like the X100 - BOOM: FF mirrorless with a small registration distance.



Jul 23, 2011 at 09:47 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #18 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


photosmart42 wrote:
Better yet, take a Leica M9, give it live view and a hybrid VF like the X100 - BOOM: FF mirrorless with a small registration distance.


i kinda hate the m9 body. also, i think the OM2 is smaller if you chop off the prism.



Jul 23, 2011 at 11:45 PM
blackbird3216
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p.1 #19 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


LightShow wrote:
I'd love to have a hand in designing a camera.

Take an OM 2n, make it digital, FF sensor, reduce the registration distance, 3mp EVF with a fast refresh, done.

OOO, I know, lets start a company together! Then we can make it compatible with ALL lenses, with electronic AF on all lenses, and full frame. And every other quirky feature we want

But realistically, what market is this trying to fill? The typical person walking into Bestbuy will NOT be springing for a 5d2. They'll be looking at a coolpix or a powershot. They'll see, this one looks nice, it has a large screen, it fits in my pocket, and it has 5 more megapixels than this other one. DONE!

The more "erudite" shopper will go into their local photography shop, and they'll pickup perhaps a D5000 or a T3i, to start out. Then, maybe they'll buy a nifty fifty to match with their kit lens, and it goes from there.

Others (the types more inclined to visit sites like potn and fredmiranda) will spring for 5d/d700 or even the 1d/s series.

Between the more "professional" and the prior level, there will be some interested people who want a smaller camera, but want to change lenses as well. Unfortunately, I personally believe that this is a higher level product, and 60% of people will still jump for the P&S or the low-level DSLR before they go to m43. Why? Because the DSLR formfactor conveys "professional" and oftentimes, "bigger is better." To want a smaller camera and the same features would require a buyer to discard this mantra of bigger=better, and go for NEX/m43, etc. Thus, the market for even smaller sensor size cameras is very small. How often will someone jump from full frame to a camera that is 2.5x or even 5.5x? It is a very difficult jump. You might argue that the P&S owner could be interested in the 5.5x EVIL (due to form factor), but it is more likely that the P&S owner simply wants a $200 camera that works, and not have to worry about settings/sensor cleaning/lenses.

To summarize, here is how I see it.

1. Typical consumer (biggest market)
P+S.
2. More eccentric consumers (secondary market)
Beginner DSLR (e.g. D5000 or T3i) and a couple of beginner lenses.
3. (perhaps the users in level 2 might jump to m43)
4. Pros or "serious amateurs" (not my term)
5d2, d700, 1ds mkII.
5. (after seeing that they don't want a heavy kit, or simply don't need it, these serious amateurs might go into m43. But to go back to 5.5x sensors? Probably a very low chance).

Now, in this market hierarchy, where does the 2.5x sensor fit in? Will the typical consumer go from P+S to 2.5x? Maybe, but it is likely they aren't interested. They would probably be more likely to want to "look like a pro" and jump up to a entry level DSLR than to go for a small EVIL. That's why I personally think that EVIL cameras are a higher level market, between the buyers of the entry level DSLR and the pro DSLR buyers.

I am oversimplifying this, but you can't blame me for trying.



Edited on Jul 24, 2011 at 01:35 AM · View previous versions



Jul 23, 2011 at 11:46 PM
LightShow
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p.1 #20 · update! Nikons mirrorless lens mount


FYI we have both Bestbuy and FutureShop, They built BB's next to some FS's to see if the FS's lost 50% of sales to the BB's, they only lost 20% IIRC so rather than re-brand the FS's as BB's they kept them as is and built BB's too.

I think the P&S market is going to be dominated by smart phones,
leaving bridge, mirrorless, and DSLR's.

And as long as the camera is fairly compact the average consumer will not care if it's a bridge, mirrorless, or DSLR, as long as it gives them more control, and better IQ.
The trick is to design a camera that can cover the biggest section of the market as possible for as little as possible, which may include using a smaller sensor.

But there is no denying that there is a market for a FF mirrorless sized between a P&S and a DSLR.



Jul 24, 2011 at 01:25 AM
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