Okay, I'll weigh in, and do a touch of clarifying/lobbying.
I agree with obik, that the "gear issue" is a non-issue (from day one, and certainly at this point after ten months) and should not be brought up. Doing so only serves to derail the collegial atmosphere of sharing experiences on the topic of panoramic (and composite) photos.
From a practical standpoint, regardless of any forum rules, there are certain broad subjects of interest and participation which not only enrich the technical and aesthetic involvement of the membership, but also help to push past artificial limits and one-up-manship of brand superiority. "Pano-mania" and "Twilight/Night" are two such areas of broad appeal (authored by myself).
Of course we can be pedantic and stick strictly to the rules, in which case we would find a tiny thread buried in Landscape or some other forum, titled "Leica 50mm panoramas" with one or two contributing photographers, before it dissolves into the quicksand of older forum threads.
Regarding these two broad subject threads (and any others extant or possible): where better to feature such an aggregate and wealth of gear, predominantly Alt, and certainly used in Alt methods of producing images in a non-conventional way? The Alt forum is where such a collection of knowledge and imagery belongs. I'm sorry if it tweaks anyone the wrong way, but the greater good must be considered so long as it doesn't impede the orderly exchange of information on other Alt threads.
I certainly understand the general history of the Alt forum -- independent freedom fighters seeking refuge from the noxious nattering Canikon conglomerate. I'm sure in its founding bylaws there is notation regarding any contamination of the forum by Canikon involvement. I try to respect and embrace those guidelines and history, but over time a larger and more involved community seems to have flowered here, with a greater interest in sharing uncommon experiences and techniques.
I simply hope we can all continue to share these wonderful images and show the tremendous ingenuity and planning that go into such efforts. Continued sniping over the definition of "Alt" only leads to a breakdown of our cooperative sharing and hard feelings spill over onto other threads.
BTW -- What is more Alt than a Tilt/Shift lens, unless it is an anamorphic lens?
carstenw wrote:
You make two separate points here.
The discussion as to what lenses are alt has come up a few times, and I don't recall any fundamental disagreement with calling lenses alt which are either not Canon or Nikon, or not modern AF lenses. This is IMO the best way to resolve this issue since otherwise AI-S lenses, for example, would be alt on Canon but not on Nikon. It is almost as if Nikon was punished for remaining backwards compatible rather than shafting their user base like Canon did, a ridiculous situation at best. The line was drawn at AF, AF-D and AF-S lenses. A Canon user could conceivably use a Nikon AF-D lens as a manual lens, since there is an aperture ring, but a Nikon user could no longer really call it alt. Some of Nikon's lenses are still AF-D today.
As to why I called it out, I don't like seeing more and more non-alt photos here. The whole point, as the name "Alternative Gear & Lenses" makes clear, is to get away from the Canon and Nikon dominant photography scenes and see what else is out there. When people start creating threads where anything goes we are already slipping. I mean, what do you think the reaction would be like if I went to the Canon forum and started a Nikon thread? It wouldn't be pretty. My "but it isn't alt" comment was quite inside the lines of the reasonable, I think, obik's over-reaction notwithstanding.
There is nothing magical about this thread, other than Jim, bless his heart, made a special comment calling for neutrality from anti Canon-Canon post biases, and let Nikon-Nikon in at the same time. All techniques are available to all systems, and no technique is more alt than any other. Whenever anyone is in doubt why this forum exists, they should just look at the name: "Alternative Gear & Lenses", and all becomes clear. It is not about technique....Show more →
+1
Carsten, well said, I agree to the letter. When Alt forum is no longer Alt but the slippery slope of just casually mixing in non Alt with Alt and then all of a sudden non Alt threads like "which Canon AF zoom should I choose for my 5DmkIII " start to pop up.
The Alt Forum may seem limited to some that think they should selfishly allow for non Alt postings for _their_convenience failing to recognize that the Alt Forum is limited for a reason.
The reason is not eliticism, not snobbery - it is a forum where people can discuss and post threads on Alt gear and know they don't have to sift through an awful amount of threads that are not relevant to their "limited" interest.
I know I will, again, catch flak for standing my ground on this, but I am just a stickler for forum policies as I think they serve their purpose.
Thanks for letting be not be so alone in preferring to keep the alt forum alt only, as much as possible. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who felt that way.
I think many people are too polite to voice their concerns, last time this was brought up I did get a lot of "silent support" through PM from people that were concerned like us but did not dare to speak out in the threads as they felt they were intimidated by some posters and thought it best to remain silent.
LAST EDIT:
I love digging around posts of images of every conceivable type, taken with true Alt lenses as I love these lenses, vintage and adapted, new and old. But alt, and I find much joy in seeing images taken with these and hearing conversion stories and seeing how people do it.
Mixing it up makes it just another bland image forum.
carstenw wrote:
Thanks for letting be not be so alone in preferring to keep the alt forum alt only, as much as possible. I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who felt that way.
I agree with you, but the problem is always in the details. Where's the line between alt and non-alt. Most of us post photos made with a Canon or Nikon camera (although m4/3 and NEX are getting more and more popular these days), which is actually not alt unless you're using an alternative brand lens it is alt. But an EF tilt-shift on a Canon is also considered by most as alt (or am I wrong?). It's hard to draw a line and most of us don't really bother about this, so the line is getting more and more twisted over time.
Back to some great panoramas shot by Sebboh: very nice depth, although the DoF doesn't seem really small.
Alt. According to the original rules, anything which is not Canon-on-Canon or Nikon-on-Nikon is alt. This is because these two combinations already have their own forums. AI or AI-S on Nikon squeaks through because this is not a popular combination over in the NoN forum, and can barely keep one thread alive.
Anyway, the feeling, the photos, the mindsets, everything is quite different between CoC and NoN people and the alt people who hang around here. Here we have people who came from CoC or NoN and felt there was something missing. They start experimenting and trying things, and have long discussions about esoteric topics which over in the mainstream fora will just get you weird looks.
U.C.: Since it was taken during the national anthem, movement was minimal and ghosting was pretty manageable using PTGUI's masking tool. Exposure merging for light falloff proved to be the most challenging.
You know, it's funny: I don't catch any crap when I post in the Canon forum using Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, Samyang, or other non-Canon lens. I could post Alt images there all day as long as there were some element of Canon involved -- same for Nikon. That should be against forum laws too, don't you think?
It's a nice dream that Alt has been separated from Canikon, but the reality is the majority of bodies in Alt are from these two manufacturers.
Nothing artistically awesome about this shot, but I must say the A77 does pretty well in this situation. This is nearly 180 degrees, tight quarters, shot with 16-50 lens. Too bad I couldn't control aperture (using the auto-pano mode of camera). Shot of my daughter's room after my wife managed to actually clean it up.
Zeiss ZE100@f13. 11 shots pano of Marina skyline, Singapore.
Q: How do you squeeze the pano within the width of this forum and yet have the magnifying glass show up? I do not want to use the original file which is huge.
