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Archive 2011 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons

  
 
wembley
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p.2 #1 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


I have had no experience with TP at MV although his name was one that i came across many times when I planned my MV trip 2 yrs ago. I did do a tour with Daniel and it was excellent. I was there 1st week of April and stayed a night at the View. Got up in the morning and went down to the guide area thinking that there might be guides there with openings. No guides, no nobody. Then a truck turned up and it was Daniel. He came to ask me if I was his client ( a videographer on a commercial shoot). I wasn't but i told my story. when his client arrived Daniel asked him if he minded me joining the tour. No problem. It was a specific shoot for the client (sunrise at totem pole and some wall paintings) and Daniel advised me of this and offered me a nice price based on the limited options. I took it. I went with Daniel and the client followed in his own 4x4.
Totem Pole at sunrise was awesome, and although we did not see much else, Daniel offered thoughts on angles, viewpoints and potential shots.
All in all I was extremely pleased to have the opportunity to go into the Valley and shoot TP at sunrise and am thankful for Daniel support (and also the videographer). When we got back I joined the family for a regular short tourist tour which was pretty good too.

cheers
wembley



May 30, 2011 at 10:29 AM
PB_James
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p.2 #2 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


Good to get this info out about the bait & switch ways of the MV "guides." Hopefully as the information spreads, it will start to hit them in the only place they care about - the wallet. I've never been there...and certainly won't be spending a dime there any time remotely soon.


May 30, 2011 at 11:50 AM
markcapilitan
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p.2 #3 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


wish this post was around this time last year as I was preparing to head on a road trip including MV. While there we found it impossible to get hold of guides on the phone as we had arranged with one...but as we couldn't get hold of him, we had to go with another.

It wasn't too bad, but we're heading back to MV later this year, and I'll definitely not be doing another tour, just staying in the View to get good sunrises & sunsets while we spend more time looking around House on Fire/Fallen Roof areas of Utah.



May 31, 2011 at 02:39 AM
photonanax3
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p.2 #4 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


When I was in the SW last fall, I wasn't able to time my visit through MV to catch sunrise/sunsets and I agree that it is a beautiful place to see, but I'm not willing to pay a guide to get me to the "cool" spots. I'm a hiker, I like to get out and explore and felt restricted going through MV. I'm with Mark, explore more of the Cedar Mesa area - it doesn't have the commercial feel.


May 31, 2011 at 07:34 AM
Greg Campbell
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p.2 #5 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


woodsy3629 wrote:
I am currently trying to decide on some of the place mentioned above for a trip I'm making in July. I'm coming from Australia for a conference in Vegas and plan on hiring a car and driving up 15 to Zion, Bryce and then down to Page for the Antelope Canyons.

Reading the mixed reviews on such places, has me a little worried about choosing the right "tour guide" and the amount of people that I'm going to encounter in the middle of summer.

I shoot with a Linhof Technorama, so not really a quick setup when you need to get
...Show more

Death Valley? July? Unless you can arrange to arrive in the pre-dawn hours, the heat will make any activity more or less impossible. An early morning hike of Golden Canyon will offer some pretty shots - then it will be time to flee!

If you're headed in that direction, I'd suggest you aim for the Bristlecone Pines, east of Big Pine, instead. http://sonic.net/bristlecone/WhiteMts.html#Visiting & camping

The eastern half of Yosemite will be less crowded than the valley, and there is plenty to shoot. Keep an eye on the moon phases, many of the Valley's cliche' shots such as Tunnel View can work well after dark, when the crowds will be greatly reduced. Mono Lake and Bodie are two other area favorites.

If heading east, I'd aim for Bryce. If you want a slot canyon, look up nearby Willis Creek; it's got elevation, probably a little water flowing in it, and very easy access. (No need to lug that wonderful camera miles through the blazing sand...) There are numerous other slots in the general area, but most are at a lower elevations - plan to get in and out by 9am or so.
A good list can be found at:
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/index.html
and
http://www.americansouthwest.net/slot_canyons/map.html
Many of these are technical, but most offer a 'casual hike' option. Just hike to the mouth and explore as far as you can before reaching an impasse.

Enjoy!




Jun 19, 2011 at 08:25 AM
phil hawkins
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p.2 #6 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


I just cannot believe what I'm reading on this post! Negative, negative, negative!! Geez-Louise! Does anyone here have the slightest inkling that MV is basically in a foreign country? The Navajo Indian Reservation is the largest in the country, both geographically and as measured by population. They have been there for thousands of years and have their own culture. I could go on about the poverty here, etc., but you know the story. As for the "money-hungry" attitude, I don't begrudge them that at all. I'm not wild about dilapidated mobile homes right up in the shadow of the mittens, or the cheap Indian jewelry displays everywhere you turn, but it's their turf. Don't expect the place to be run like Yellowstone or (God forbid) Yosemite, with the NPS running everything because it's not the same. Trust me, if NPS was running things, the prices would be triple and access would be about half what it is now.

My experience was much different than you guys; I went to Mystery Valley with a guide name of Marcella who took me all around for 3 hours, and only charged me $15. (I suspect she just wanted to be out of the kiosk for a while...). She could not have been nicer, showed me everything in Mystery Valley, and we parted friends. The Navajo I encountered were friendly, helpful and doing their best to etch out a living. If anything, they don't charge enough. $5 a person to enter the park?? Are you kidding me? That's dirt cheap! And I told them so. $165 for an all-day trip (6 hours) on horseback around the Monument Valley sights? That's absurdly cheap. No question, if they pull the bait-and-switch on you, you can accept or bail. Don't get angry, just make a decision and get over it. The sooner you make a decision to be happy and take what comes in that frame of mind, you will have a much more rewarding experience. And check your own attitude; are you smiling, patient, happy, conversational, outgoing and respectful, or do you approach with a sour-puss face, silent, questioning, suspicious, and intolerant?

BTW, one of my pet peeves is people whose driving life force is to complain about every little thing that doesn't meet their personal expectations when on vacation. It makes me wonder why people even bother to leave home. If you're going to be that rigid, inflexible, opinionated, and basically unhappy, just stay home where you have control over everything. I agree that bait-and-switch is irritating, but that's how the Navajo negotiate; everything is up for re-negotiation at any time depending on their judgment of what they can get AND on what they want to give you. If they like you, you can negotiate a GREAT deal! If they DON'T like you, just bend over and prepare for the hosing you're going to get. Understand that, and life will be that much easier (This is true in life no matter where you are or what you're doing). Best thing to do is, at the beginning of the day, decide what attitude you're going to project and then LIVE WITH IT and DON'T COMPLAIN!



Aug 26, 2011 at 02:02 PM
Jeffrey
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p.2 #7 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


Phil, Much of your advice is sound. Still, it's not fun being over-charged or ripped off by anyone of any culture. Most navajo are sweet. Too bad the self appointed leader of the tour industry there is not. The foul feeling he leaves is very real. Glad you found Marcella. We all should be so fortunate.


Aug 26, 2011 at 04:08 PM
nrferguson
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p.2 #8 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


peterrowe wrote:
Golly, those are strange replies. Monument Valley is one of the most awesome places on the planet. The guide of choice at Monument Valley is native Navajo Tom Phillips, phone 928 309 7440, [email protected]. Tom is often out in the valley where there is no cellphone reception so leave a message. I hired Tom for a sunrise shoot and one other person (German) came along. We left way before dark in Tom's SUV and were in place at sunrise, after stopping at many spots we came back about 2 hours later and it cost me $65. I then hired Tom's
...Show more
+1 Went on a dawn trip with Tom Phillips last autumn and it was great. Collected us at View Hotel in the pitch dark and went to Totem Pole, Artist/painters View and lots of other spots that you can't reach without a guide. I wish we had time to do the Hunt's Mesa overnight despite the expense. Upper Antelope Canyon is a circus and you have to do an organised photographer trip or all you get is photos of crowds. Even then it's pretty fast. Make sure you take your tripod or you won't get anything worthwhile. Lower Antelope is much better and IMHO the photogenicity is better too - I'd go back there like a shot but not sure I'd go to Upper again.
Niall



Aug 27, 2011 at 05:02 AM
phil hawkins
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p.2 #9 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


"Photogenicity"? :-)


Aug 27, 2011 at 11:32 AM
mamankyle
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p.2 #10 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


Screw the guide companies. Get out and explore on your own and stay away from these slot canyon tourist ghettos. There are spectacular places to visit on the Colorado Plateau, where you can be by your self, for free.



Aug 27, 2011 at 11:38 AM
phil hawkins
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p.2 #11 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


mamankyle wrote:
Screw the guide companies. Get out and explore on your own and stay away from these slot canyon tourist ghettos. There are spectacular places to visit on the Colorado Plateau, where you can be by your self, for free.


Amen...!!



Aug 27, 2011 at 11:40 AM
ckcarr
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p.2 #12 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


That may be true if you know where to go. A lot of the people interested in this thread may not have the time, or knowlege. However, you may be somewhat limited if you try trespassing on the Navajo Nation land without their permission. You must have respect for them. For example, I want to climb to the top of the Mules Ear but can't just go do it. Other places on the Colorado Plateau, it takes a lot of time and miles to start figuring it out, and piecing it together. Actually that's true even in the Canyonlands, which is a small part of it... So, in the end, the average person who wants to photograph those iconic areas is better served hiring a guide - or knowing someone.


Aug 27, 2011 at 12:02 PM
mamankyle
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p.2 #13 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


You can do an enormous amount of research on the internet. Instead of asking which guide to hire to go to some overcrowded "iconic" place, use the this forum and others to find places equally as spectacular. It does not take that much time, just a little effort. And maybe you might get an image that you have not seen 1000 times, the same "Antelope Canyon sun streak" (with the 5 other photographers next to you cropped out) or the same "wave at coyote buttes" picture.
BTW I am not advocating trespassing on Navajo lands, I stay away from them typically, because I do not want to spend money, and I like to set my own schedule, to learn and immerse myself. It takes a little time.
I know my opinion is in the minority, but I think it is a shame for people to fly half way around the globe to visit the desert southwest, only to be herded through (by appointment only) some slot canyon filled with people fighting over the same images. Industrial Tourism @ it's worst.
With a little bit of research and effort anyone who can walk can find spectacular scenery, and the solitude that is the other equally important component of the canyonlands. Visit places that have been RESPECTED, not turned into what Antelope Canyon has been turned in to.
Greg



Aug 27, 2011 at 12:59 PM
campyone
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p.2 #14 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


I've been to Monument Valley twice. The first time I used a guide from one of the booths outside the visitor center. That was a huge mistake. We paid for a half-day in advance (the only way they work). We were supposed to leave at 1:00 and finish at dark. The guide didn't show up until after 4:00 and we had time to drive to only two places before dark. A whole lot of money for only a small handful of photographs. The second time the friend I was with knew of a good guide, we used him and he was great. Unfortunately I don't have any contact information for him. But based on my own, admittedly limited, experience I'd suggest that you avoid using a random guide from the booths outside the visitor center.

It's all well and good to suggest planning your own sites but at Monument Valley all you can do without a guide is drive around the loop, where you're almost certain to photograph the exact same things in the same way a million other people who didn't want to pay for a guide have photographed them. That may not be true of the slot canyons, I don't know, I've never had a big desire to photograph them.



Aug 27, 2011 at 01:13 PM
phil hawkins
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p.2 #15 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


campyone wrote:
I've been to Monument Valley twice. The first time I used a guide from one of the booths outside the visitor center. That was a huge mistake. We paid for a half-day in advance (the only way they work). We were supposed to leave at 1:00 and finish at dark. The guide didn't show up until after 4:00 and we had time to drive to only two places before dark. A whole lot of money for only a small handful of photographs. The second time the friend I was with knew of a good guide, we used him and he
...Show more

With all due respect, are you guys photographers or tourists? I built my career shooting places in Yosemite that are among the most photographed sights in North America. The difference between me and the typical Japanese tourist is that I approach Tunnel View to see "How can I shoot it different than anyone else?" If all you do is drive up, shoot several frames and drive away, then yes, your shots will be nothing better than that of a point-and-shoot owner. The fact that it's "...where you're almost certain to photograph the exact same things in the same way a million other people who didn't want to pay for a guide have photographed them." should be a clarion call to challenge your creativity! Further, you might as well stay home if you have no more self-confidence that your shots are going to be no better than "...a million other people who didn't want to pay for a guide have photographed them." What a defeatist attitude...



Aug 27, 2011 at 03:02 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.2 #16 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons



phil hawkins wrote:
With all due respect, are you guys photographers or tourists? I built my career shooting places in Yosemite that are among the most photographed sights in North America. The difference between me and the typical Japanese tourist is that I approach Tunnel View to see "How can I shoot it different than anyone else?" If all you do is drive up, shoot several frames and drive away, then yes, your shots will be nothing better than that of a point-and-shoot owner. The fact that it's "...where you're almost certain to photograph the exact same things in the same way
...Show more

This is true, and especially with the surge in photography over the last decade or whatnot. I was up at Mt. Rainier, which is iconic and has been shot 2 trillion times, but i think did okay on my take .



Aug 27, 2011 at 04:28 PM
D. von Briesen
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p.2 #17 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


i've stayed out of this one for many months b/c such explosive partisan positions have been taken.

but i have to applaud you phil for your posts of late. guides are good (i know because i offer great service thoughout the southwest and my clients are many and pleased).

but research will net you an enormous amount of information that can save lots of $$$.

creative original takes can be found in even the most hackneyed of locations. i have had shots published by nat geo from tunnel view and antelope canyon simply because, as phil rightly notes, i put extra effort into finding something that was original and creative. now my shot from antelope gets immitated and you know what they say about the "sincerest form of flattery."

finally, a word about tom phillips. he can be ornery, more so in the past couple of years. he's a proud navajo who's getting on in age and has had a lot of health issues. there's a lot of pain involved that he doesn't talk about.

doesn't excuse some of the behavior described but i will say in his defense that the many, many times i've used him and his family as guides, he has been impeccable, funny, articulate, willing to share parts of his navajo culture, and is the most accomplished photography guide i've ever used in monument. i've approached him with respect and always had the same returned. just my experience and as i mentioned above, it doesn't excuse some of the deplorable interactions others have reported.

but as phil pointed out, the navajo nation is different that other states in our union. and their history has been, as with so many native american tribes, rife with tragedy and exploitation, mass murder, and anglo double dealing. i'm often surprised at how readily forgiving so many are. surely, it's not our fault in the present for the sins of our fathers, but to ignore that historical legacy is to greatly misunderstand the considerable difference in cultures and world view. make an effort to come in peace and things will go remarkably well, i think.

and, i guess, sometimes we can all be assholes for reasons only known to us.



Aug 27, 2011 at 10:49 PM
Greg Campbell
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p.2 #18 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


phil hawkins wrote:
With all due respect, are you guys photographers or tourists? I built my career shooting places in Yosemite that are among the most photographed sights in North America. The difference between me and the typical Japanese tourist is that I approach Tunnel View to see "How can I shoot it different than anyone else?" If all you do is drive up, shoot several frames and drive away, then yes, your shots will be nothing better than that of a point-and-shoot owner. The fact that it's "...where you're almost certain to photograph the exact same things in the same way
...Show more

Go Phil!

To put it bluntly, I think most 'photographers' ARE tourists. Tourists with fancy cameras.

I've been on a few field trips with a large group out of Phoenix. Last year I tried to organize a trip to the Page area, planning to visit a number of locations in the general area. I was a bit dismayed to find that very few people showed any real interest in Wire Pass, Buckskin Gulch, the colorful hills surrounding the Paria townsite, the hoodoo forests in the area, etc. No! The only thing these people wanted was to shoot those dumb light beams in Upper Jackalope, and hike The Wave. They didn't want to hear about wall-to-wall crowds at Antelope, or the > 60:1 odds against winning a next-day Coyote Buttes pass. They essentially demanded to do exactly what every other camera carting tourist before them has done. I finally convinced them that the Wave was impossible, but they could not be saved from the 'Lure of the Beams.' Sure as <bleep> they came back moaning about the crowds and the cattle-drive experience. Go figure.

I DO appreciate that not everyone has the spare time to roam the 'net and discover all the semi-hidden gems that are out there. At the same time, there is no excuse for blindly following the crowd, only to moan that all their destinations have become over-commercialized and trampled to dust by the hordes of preceding Tourons. There are 'only' about 5 bazillion pretty, non-technical slots in Az/Ut that are just begging to be photographed. Pick one and go exploring! And if Monument Valley is too crowded / expensive, go pitch a tent at Valley of the Gods, not 50 miles up the road. Stay as long as you like, for FREE! Photograph the place under a full moon, during a thunderstorm, or just enjoy the wildflowers on a pretty Spring day. Whatever you do, find the courage and make the effort to produce something unique! (Isn't that the whole point )


Edited on Aug 28, 2011 at 02:19 PM · View previous versions



Aug 27, 2011 at 11:13 PM
phil hawkins
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p.2 #19 · Monument Valley & Slot Canyons


Well put, Greg!


Aug 28, 2011 at 01:23 AM
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