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Archive 2011 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens

  
 
Specularist
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p.11 #1 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


wickerprints wrote:
And then you see from the test charts that it has more axial color than the EF 100L from f/2 - f/2.8. What does that say about how people choose to see what they want to see? If you compare the Photozone test charts, according to them, the 100 MP has as much resolving power in the center at f/2 as the 100L at f/2.8. That clearly contradicts the actual test charts from TDP showing magenta fringing in the former at f/2.


Speaking of choosing, I think you choose not to see lateral chromatic aberration in the TDP comparison.

Contrary to what you claim above, one cannot see from the TDP test chart that the Zeiss has more axial colour, because one can't determine from the test chart that the tester focused accurately, and mis-focusing would precisely produce the magenta tint observed. In fact, all signs (the results, the Photozone results, Zeiss' MTF charts, real-world photos, etc.) point to his having slightly missed focus for the Zeiss. (And several other lenses he's tested. I've examined a bunch of them. In addition to sometimes straightforwardly missing the focus, he more often fails to choose the focus point that best accommodates curvature of field across the test chart. A careful photographer will obviously choose that point in real-world shooting, when time permits.)

Modern, highly corrected, fast lenses — such as the Zeiss in question — produce very saturated false colour when slightly mis-focused, unlike older lenses with dominant monochromatic aberrations. This is its own flaw, but shouldn't be confused with false colour in the plane of focus.

I have my issues with Lloyd Chambers' tests and interpretations, but he does manage to get things in certain focus before coming to any grand conclusions. (Moaning about the difficulty of achieving truly accurate focus is one of his recurring themes, of course.) And I suspect the reason he finds so many lenses to be duds is that he tests them more rigorously than most people. I also suspect a lens with fifteen elements, image stabilisation, and a plastic barrel will more often have centring issues than a Zeiss. Call it speculation if you wish! Here's what the 18 mm f/3.5 ZF looks like inside (photo taken at last year's Salon de la Photo in Paris):

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/585/zeiss18mmbetter.jpg

This approximate style of construction is used for Leica lenses, modern cine lenses, and high-end Canon lenses like the super-telephoto models (I'm not sure about the new lightweight versions). Lenses like the Canon 100 mm f/2.8L macro, by contrast, are put together with generous amounts of plastic and glue. This makes them light, affordable, and largely good enough; but it does mean they're more liable to centring problems, both when new and after use (knocks, bumps, falls).

Edited on May 27, 2011 at 02:26 PM · View previous versions



May 27, 2011 at 02:19 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.11 #2 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


PetKal wrote:
Well, a very fine quality of those Zeiss images doesn't surprise me....after all, some experienced photographers swear by the lens.
What did surprise me was a mediocre sharpness of those 100L test shots.


I don't think the 100L test shots showed "mediocre sharpness" in the test. If they had been presented on their own (not side-by-side with the Zeiss), I think the general conclusion would have been that the Canon was very good at capturing the fine features and surface detail of the subject. Only in direct comparison to the extra "sparkle" of the Zeiss results did the Canon look mediocre. This is why isolated test shots, like the ones you present from the Canon, are hard to draw conclusions from when comparing good lenses. To really see what is going on, we need more direct side-by-side identical shots from the Canon and Zeiss (to confirm that the one ceramic cup example wasn't just methodological error or an isolated bad lens copy).



May 27, 2011 at 02:26 PM
PetKal
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p.11 #3 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Here is one supercrop of the image #1 above.
That does suggest that the lens captures a good amount of detail even handheld at non-macro (i.e., normal telephoto) distances.

Edited on May 29, 2011 at 06:16 PM · View previous versions



May 27, 2011 at 02:29 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.11 #4 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Specularist wrote:
Here's what the 18 mm f/3.5 ZF looks like inside (photo taken at last year's Salon de la Photo in Paris):

I hope that's not what the lens really looks like inside. I see really awful de-centering on the rear element and excessive interior dust. Presumably, the quality is better on lenses they haven't chopped in half



May 27, 2011 at 02:33 PM
dudemanppl
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p.11 #5 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/5766102724_974d212840_z.jpg
EDIT: Full size 5DII file: link
I borrowed my friend's ZF.1 50 1.4 and I CAN see it. I get what you guys are talking about. Who else thinks this is 3D?

Edited on May 27, 2011 at 03:51 PM · View previous versions



May 27, 2011 at 03:17 PM
Lars Johnsson
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p.11 #6 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Only you and your friend can see it


May 27, 2011 at 03:35 PM
bobbytan
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p.11 #7 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Both of these could have been shot with a Sigma or Tamron.


May 27, 2011 at 03:50 PM
mpmendenhall
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p.11 #8 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


charlesk wrote:
Does this look "3D"?

It's a nice picture, but not particularly 3D. The blown details in the white parts of the puffin's body give the bird itself a somewhat flat look. Furthermore, the overall composition doesn't have much context to give a sense of the space around the bird --- the uniform gray background could be a distant sky or a flat backdrop a few inches behind the bird. I think this composition would be difficult to pull 3D out of with any lens, since it is very much a single-plane shot to begin with.



May 27, 2011 at 03:50 PM
SKumar25
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p.11 #9 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Thanks Bobby and Joshua.

Yes unless we do side by side it is hard to compare the two.



May 27, 2011 at 06:26 PM
SKumar25
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p.11 #10 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


I keep reading about value. "Is it worth twice the price?" To me the two lenses are quite different to be compared. The 100 ZE to me is like a morph between the 100 L and the 85 L. It is not exactly apples v apples.

YMMV.



May 27, 2011 at 06:35 PM
PetKal
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p.11 #11 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


SKumar25 wrote:
Thanks Bobby and Joshua.

Yes unless we do side by side it is hard to compare the two.


Side by side helps for sure.
However, there are pitfalls there too, as that fellow Denoir's comparison on POTN shows: I am of the opinion that there are problems with his 100L and/or his test technique which unfortunately invalidate that comparison of the two lenses in question.



May 27, 2011 at 06:38 PM
bobbytan
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p.11 #12 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


FWIW, these images (they are not mine) appeared in these forums some years back ... and caused me get the CV APO-Lanthar 125 SL Macro. If the ZE 100 can do this it may cause me to take a closer look at it.

Edited on Jun 01, 2011 at 11:23 PM · View previous versions



May 27, 2011 at 06:47 PM
thedigitalbean
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p.11 #13 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Those flower images are just plain gorgeous.


May 27, 2011 at 06:55 PM
Mirek Elsner
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p.11 #14 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


PetKal, your picture of cracked mug reminded me that there was a test of 100L vs 100MP posted on this site before:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/910856/0

The samples are definitely worth reviewing - they show the different signatures nicely.

I had both lenses and I think they were both sharp enough and sharpness is not a concern with either. Obviously, advantage of the 100L is the IS and AF, I liked the weather sealing and lower weight, too. Like people said before in this thread, the MP has longitudinal CA that can be bothersome. I decided to sell the 100L and keep the Zeiss though. It is all about looking at the images and thinking how the lens fits your style, needs and how it complements/overlaps with other lenses in your bag...




May 27, 2011 at 08:46 PM
SKumar25
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p.11 #15 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


thedigitalbean wrote:
Those flower images are just plain gorgeous.


+1. WOW!!

Classic fast long rendering to my eye. Reminds me of 85L II with tubes, but obviously at another level. Wonder if anyone has tried the 100 ZE wide open with tubes?



May 27, 2011 at 08:49 PM
Tom Dix
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p.11 #16 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


I just made a deal for the CZ 100 2 after having the chance to photograph with it a couple of times. From my initial impression, my eyes must have seen something similar to what Lars speaks of.
Looking forward to having it in the bag and will happily share my experience, however, it will be a while. Anticipation!



May 27, 2011 at 09:07 PM
PetKal
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p.11 #17 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Mirek Elsner wrote:
PetKal, your picture of cracked mug reminded me that there was a test of 100L vs 100MP posted on this site before:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/910856/0

The samples are definitely worth reviewing - they show the different signatures nicely.

I had both lenses and I think they were both sharp enough and sharpness is not a concern with either. Obviously, advantage of the 100L is the IS and AF, I liked the weather sealing and lower weight, too. Like people said before in this thread, the MP has longitudinal CA that can be bothersome. I decided to sell the 100L and keep the Zeiss though.
...Show more

Thank you, Mirek, those samples are interesting.
However, I think some folks in that thread might have exhibited a bit of a pro Zeiss bias. Come to think of it, it is odd that such bias should be harboured by people who haven't designed/engineered either of the darn lenses.

Heck, I wish I could be convinced that IQ of Zeiss 100 f/2 was significantly better than IQ of 100L.....that might furnish the justification to buy the Zeiss and deal with MF.



May 27, 2011 at 09:20 PM
saaketham
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p.11 #18 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


I shot for an hour with the Zeiss 100mm f/2.0 Makro Planar ZF.2 on a Nikon D7000 earlier today. Using LiveView, MF is rather easy, but I forgot my wireless remote, so a bit of shake might have taken away from the true sharpness of the lens. The keepers I had are beautiful (to me at least(. I've never owned the 100L macro, but I've shot a lot with 100mm f/2.8 macro, the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 macro and Canon 180mm f/3.5 and the Zeiss is right up there w.r.t IQ. As mentioned by folks earlier, I am banned from posting any samples taken with a Nikon body in the Canon forum. But, it's fun to shoot with that lens, I can tell you.


May 28, 2011 at 01:00 AM
SKumar25
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p.11 #19 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


Here are some more rendering examples. As I said earlier, not every shot has this look, and sometimes my Canons produce this under certain conditions and PP. But my 50MP and 100MP do this on a regular basis.

This type of look is disliked by many too, who prefer a flatter rendering.

My aim here is not to convince everyone, as entire threads have been dedicated to this subject with many still unconvinced. If someone with an open mind knows what we're on about then great. This should not be confused with subject isolation.

http://www.lotuscreativeworks.com/photos/1007454482_i4TTD-O.jpg

http://www.lotuscreativeworks.com/photos/1007455346_eUQXw-O.jpg

http://www.lotuscreativeworks.com/photos/i-2z5HgVR/0/O/i-2z5HgVR.jpg

http://www.lotuscreativeworks.com/photos/1007452405_ooJMG-O.jpg



May 28, 2011 at 01:24 AM
Karel Geertsem
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p.11 #20 · Digital-Picture review ZE 100 MP lens


So, the ZE 100 MP 2 is here!
I'm sorry, but I sold the 100L before I could buy the ZE, so I can't compare directly.

Rapid conclusion:
The 100 L is the most practical lens, due to weight and magnificent IS. The huge lens shade is a bummer though.
The 100 ZE is far better at longer distances to infinity; this is why I bought it: decent macro (1:2) and better versatility as a short tele, I like the small lens shade, but I WILL miss the IS. Oh yes, on a crop, using only the center of the lens, the 100L is also very good, it is just not as good on FF.

At macro and short distances my impression is that they are pretty close in IQ; I think you can't go wrong with either. For manual focus the ZE rocks; the 100L has a pretty flimsy "fly by wire" MF.



May 28, 2011 at 05:25 AM
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