I have both the Nikon SB5000 and the Godox V860II. Love the combination. I think the Nikon is better built, but if you aren't rough with your equipment, the Godox will be just fine. Bought the Godox with the controllers simply because Nikon is way behind the times in the world of flash. They should have come out with a wireless version of the SU-800 controller long ago. As it is, the SB5000 really isn't useful on older Nikon bodies. You can use older bodies with the Godox. Results have been equal. You do want to have a backup battery for the Godox, whereas the Nikon uses AA's, plus the Turbo battery packs work with the Nikon flashes, Godox doesn't.
I use the SB5000s, beautifull made, fast recycletime, strong light aso but if I would consider to buy another Speedlight being in your shoes right now I'd buy two 860IIs plus the XPro trigger, resulting in a very capable system at 1/3 the price I payed for the two SB5000s.
You wouldn't even need the XPro trigger since you can operate the 860IIs with the inbuilt menus but it's a bit cumbersome where the trigger makes life more easy. (but you don't HAVE to buy/use it)
The SB700 is a nice but former gen speedlight only capable to do CLS using IR with its limitations.
The 860II with its app, long lasting Li-ion cheap battery, full RC (compared to the mix you'd get buying and crippling a SB5000 to work with the SB700) thus better as a system, would make it a nobrainer to me, even more when considering prices.
I follow Thern in this one. I had a few Nikon flashes in the past but now it is Godox all the way (350-860-200-350-600's). These along with a trigger and you are all set for an unbeatable price.
marksdca wrote:
They should have come out with a wireless version of the SU-800 controller long ago. As it is, the SB5000 really isn't useful on older Nikon bodies.
You can use SB-5000's as on-camera flashes and as optically triggered remotes on CLS-compatible older camera bodies. However, radio control is only available with the D5, D850, D500, D7500, Z6 and Z7, for now.
A version of SU-800 with radio transmitter would be a good idea, though it would then not allow simultaneous use of on-camera flash (I don't believe a pass-through system would be mechanically sound; too much torque on the interfaces). Transmitters in the flashes themselves would allow that, but for some reason Nikon went with an auxiliary transmitter using a different port and did not include the transmitter in the SB-5000.
I do like SB-5000's and the new system works great, it's very reliable, and by linking the first item on my menu to the flash power settings menu and reprogramming Pv to this, the controls are easily accessible with a single press of a button. However, for widespread adaptation, Nikon came up with the radio controlled flash system five years too late. I use Elinchrom and their radio control works fine for manual use and also supports sync with fast shutter speeds with the appropriate battery-pack system and head, but the communication is really erratic if you want to have the transmitter display the settings and adjust them from the transmitter. Nikon's is very much easier to use, and faster. However, Nikon flashes do not take Elinchrom's modifiers very easily and so I use both (with some different and some of the same modifiers). It seems when going beyond the basic radio triggering, several companies have had difficulty making the more advanced flash functions and control work well. Nikon only made one radio-controlled flash and trigger so far and it works very well, but as noted the majority of the market has moved to cheaper options that also support older cameras.
What's interesting to me is the Profoto A1 / A1X which has a clever magnetic attachment system for modifiers and filters. It seems just super-convenient and the available accessories allow the Neil van Niekerk style flagging of direct light (when bouncing flash from a wall to the side) with a rotating accessory that clicks on the flash head. I use rubber band and cellular rubber sheet to do the same task and it is a bit awkward but obviously very inexpensive way to deal with the situation. However, sometimes my self-made flags block too much of the light and a quality accessory to do the same would be great. The round head of the A1/A1X permit the easy rotation of accessories which seems very convenient. However, this system is quite expensive. The available modifiers and the convenient interface may be worth it though, depending on one's needs (and budget).
Like I said I wouldn't buy a SB5000 to pair it with a SB700.
Imo the high pricepoint is 'just' allbeit still really steep justified by its ability to (be) radiocontroll(ed).
As a matter of fact I think the Nikon Speedlights are really overpriced, especially when comparing with Godox and other brands.
If I'd want to keep on using the SB700 I'd buy a nice (used) SB910 'same' flash less money but no RC.
Right now I'm in the middle of buying a studioflash setup and I'm very likely to buy into a Profoto system. (B10 plus duo kit)
My retailer showed me the A1X 'speedlight', it's a beautifull made but large unit which I see more as a highly portable studioflash than an allround speedlight.
I will allmost certain ad one but at 1K it's an expensive flash and hard to justify to buy for less than regular use. (imo)
In fact I use SB-700 with two SB-5000's; the SB-700 is older and I keep it around because it's convenient to use as an on-camera bounce flash while the SB-5000's are then used as radio-controlled remotes. I don't see any issue with the setup when used in this way (and bounce flash is the most common way I use a speedlight, so the SB-700 still gets used).
>the Nikon Speedlights are really overpriced
I haven't noticed a big price hike in Nikon flashes compared to their past history, though when features are added such as active cooling in the SB-5000, greater zoom range, and radio control, it is understandable that the price does increase somewhat. A comparison to Yongnuo or Godox can be made of course, they are cheaper but to my knowledge there are no repair facilities across the world. I need a financially healthy Nikon over the course of a longer period of time and buying Nikon accessories helps with that, so I do that rather than complain when they go bankrupt and suddenly I have no support or repair parts for the Nikon gear that I use.
> and other brands.
I looked up local prices. SB-5000 is 479€, Canon's 600EX-II RT is 569€, and the Profoto A1X is 1090€. So, it depends on what you compare with.
I don't see the A1(X) as a studio flash; it has 76 Ws vs. typical studio flashes have 400-500 Ws. Typically in the studio my key light is set to 70-132Ws, so the A1(X) would be running red-hot all the time and still limit my aperture or ISO. But what it has is a supremely convenient interface for adding on-camera flash modifiers and filters, so I think it's ideal for event photography. However, for use as hair light or background light, I suppose the A1(X) would work fine as additional units with the larger flashes being main and fill lights. The B10 seems very compact for what it is and could work as the main light. They do have nice products, expensive though.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
In fact I use SB-700 with two SB-5000's; the SB-700 is older and I keep it around because it's convenient to use as an on-camera bounce flash while the SB-5000's are then used as radio-controlled remotes.
I agree
>the Nikon Speedlights are really overpriced
I haven't noticed a big price hike in Nikon flashes compared to their past history, though when features are added such as active cooling in the SB-5000, greater zoom range, and radio control, it is understandable that the price does increase somewhat.
Nikon speedlights were allways expensive, but with the CLS they delivered extra bang for the buck, nowadays compared to the relarively cheap third party units they don't have that extra value anymore.
A comparison to Yongnuo or Godox can be made of course, they are cheaper but to my knowledge there are no repair facilities across the world.
Neither do I, so there might be some risk buying such unit but one must have a lot of bad luck not to get the same lifespan out of three units vs one Nikon unit...
I need a financially healthy Nikon over the course of a longer period of time and buying Nikon accessories helps with that, so I do that rather than complain when they go bankrupt and suddenly I have no support or repair parts for the Nikon gear that I use.
Sure Nikon loves your type of customers.
No offense meant but I couldn't care less.
If they'll ever have to file bankrupcy they clearly missed the boat and I'd be prolly be gone long before this might happen.
> and other brands.
I looked up local prices. SB-5000 is 479€, Canon's 600EX-II RT is 569€, and the Profoto A1X is 1090€. So, it depends on what you compare with.
The SB5000 costs 580€ overhere, a Godox 860II 178€ including the charger plus li-ion battery.
This means I can buy two Godox units plus 2 spare batteries (32€ each) plus the Xpro trigger (60€) for 480€ saving 100€, this would 'double' my possibilities plus I'd had a backup plus enough juice to shoot way over 1000 shots at full power.(using one unit with all batteries)
Hard to beat imo.
Btw I was referring at third market/cheap brands with 'other brands'
However, for use as hair light or background light, I suppose the A1(X) would work fine as additional units with the larger flashes being main and fill lights. The B10 seems very compact for what it is and could work as the main light. They do have nice products, expensive though.
Not the B10 but the B10 plus I wouldn't know why a 500W/s light could not work as a main light for 'normal' use?
Honestly, the Godox system is more than just a "budget alternative" to Nikon speedlights. It's a much more fully fleshed out system. It's not just a cheaper option, it's a better one.
Thern wrote:
If they'll ever have to file bankrupcy they clearly missed the boat and I'd be prolly be gone long before this might happen.
It's not that I buy a Nikon product that doesn't work well or isn't from my perspective the best product to solve my problem - of course that is required that it is useful to me and considered the most suitable product. But if the alternatives are a Nikon flash that works well and a Godox flash (which probably works well but may have some issues) at 80% lower price, my question is why is the latter so much lower priced, are the workers paid living wages? I have no idea if they are, but it does give me pause. I don't expect that Nikon or Canon or Sony or Profoto or Elinchrom would ever be able to match those prices - and it's not about them missing the boat, probably they just pay wages so that their employees can live a normal life on rather than just barely survive. I simply don't believe the cost difference is just due to the manufacturers making 80% profit. I saw a documentary showing people assembling the iPhone in China and they were paid something like $5 per day and live in crowded rooms with many other employees. I don't believe Nikon employees in Japan are paid $5 per day nor do they have to share a bedroom with more than a dozen others. I am not suggesting we should all try to save the world from all ills but when something is too cheap, it makes me wonder what is going on, and not automatically buy the cheapest product even if it at that moment feels the most economical and advantageous. For me repairability is important because of ecological reasons - I believe that all manufacturers should be required to take back and recycle everything they make after it is at its end of its life cycle. This is not yet the case but I hope the world moves towards that direction before every piece of backcountry nature is a toxic e-waste dump. Thus if a product is cheap and there are no repair facilities, I will probably not buy it no matter how inexpensive it is.
I wouldn't buy a product that won't work for me. I also avoid the most expensive products for obvious reasons. But in the middle I think both the chain of infrastructure to manufacture and support the product and the value are at a reasonable balance. Your mileage may vary.
Another reason I buy Nikon is because I know there aren't any reverse engineering related glitches. For example when Pocket Wizard was developing their TTL radio triggers, McNally was testing them and said that sometimes they would work in a given situation and then he switched to a different camera body, same settings, did not work. This kind of thing rarely happens when using a Nikon flash with Nikon camera. Either it is supported and works fully, or it is not supported and doesn't work at all.
Not the B10 but the B10 plus I wouldn't know why a 500W/s light could not work as a main light for 'normal' use?
Yes, it would. B10 is what caught my eye because it's so compact for such a powerful flash and for outdoor use weight matters a lot, as a heavy flash up there in the air needs a heavier duty stand, sand bag etc whereas a lighter weight flash may not need quite as rugged support. A lot of people use B1's for studio work, I believe. For me the Profotos as a whole are a bit on the pricey side, my Elinchroms were bought at discounts and they have worked well, although the HS Plus radio transmitter is somewhat ridiculous in how long it takes to communicate with the flash units to obtain an update of the current settings. I think Profoto B1's in place of my current lights would have been almost twice as expensive, and it was simply not economically practical. But now the B10 and A1 are very appealing to me as portable lights, they are still expensive but at least they have benefits (I'm aware Godox seems to have copied the A1, though I read Profoto is taking them to court). Which brings up another question: do I want to fund a company that invents a really clever and useful thing (the attachment interface and modifiers of the A1, or a company who copies it and sells it cheap)? I have to say that again in this case my priority would go to the original inventor, even if they have additional costs (R&D costs money).
I understand that Godox has the advantage of a greater degree of interoperability of old and new flashes, old and new camera bodies, and across different manufacturers' products (than e.g. Nikon flash technology has). This is of value and if I used or had a business which uses a lot of different manufacturer's flash technology, I might choose to take advantage of that. I also understand that Profoto has been a lot more innovative with the A1 than e.g. Nikon have with their speedlights. And to get ahead, Nikon need to bring out a superior product since they can't compete with Godox on price.
ilkka_nissila wrote:
And to get ahead, Nikon need to bring out a superior product since they can't compete with Godox on price.
Exactly, they still ask premium prices for a product which isn't that (if so) superior to the much cheaper alternative.
Allthough I share the lot of your views on our world I can still see why people buy the cheap alternative but I don't want to go offtopic so I won't elaborate on this.
Godox is going strong with their innovations for flashtechnology they didn't steal it from Nikon because they passed Nikon some years ago allready.
The use of Li-ion batteries (about e-waste), a really working smartphone app, radio control etc are very attractive.
I don't state the quality to be on par with a Nikon speedlight, I have no data on this.
If one can live with the somewhat lesser quality ,let's assume it is, but just wants a speedlight for occasional use the difference in money involved together with the added features is hard to neglect.
Nikon should have innovated more, the copycats leapfrogged Nikon on their own flashtech.
So again I think Nikon speedlights to be overpriced. (not to mention Nikon was manufacturing in China too till october 2017 which renders our view on supporting the exploitation of workers at least discussable)
Thern wrote:
Godox is going strong with their innovations for flashtechnology they didn't steal it from Nikon because they passed Nikon some years ago allready.
The use of Li-ion batteries (about e-waste), a really working smartphone app, radio control etc are very attractive.
I do use NiMH AA batteries in my speedlights. True, they don't get as many shots but this hasn't been a problem for me. I do outdoor shots mostly with Quadra and most indoor shots with Nikon, so the usage of the batteries on the Nikon flashes is rather low on a given day. I just add a little bit of light. I used to do outdoor portraits also with speedlights but run into overheating and that's how the Elinchrom's came into the picture. Nikon have solved the overheating problem in the SB-5000 by using a fan, which seems to work well.
I don't state the quality to be on par with a Nikon speedlight, I have no data on this.
I don't have such data either, but I have used SB-5000's since 2016 and I haven't experienced a single time the flash would not have fired correctly (radio triggered or on camera). I find the reliability a relief compared to Elinchrom which I have had misfires occasionally (though not with the latest transmitter, but the basic one has been somewhat unreliable indoors; outdoors it works great). I have not used Godox, but dpreview in their review
do mention some glitches: "At one stage I found the X1 wouldn’t trigger the guns at all, and no matter what I tried I couldn’t make it work. This was extremely frustrating for a long time. I solved the issue by accident when I triggered one V860 ll from the other and then found that suddenly the X1 wanted to work again. I’m not entirely sure what the problem was, but suspect some sort of communication issue that was somehow unblocked when the second flash unit kicked in."
" in a couple of instances at very close range I managed to find a blind spot when using the X1 hotshoe transmitter. I was quite surprised to encounter this on a number of occasions when holding the gun in my hand while shooting, and also while the gun was mounted on a bracket next to the camera. The blind spot seems to be at 45 degrees forward of the transmitter when the flash is placed directly alongside."
"the short range reliability became a bit of an issue for me until I got used to it - I often hold a unit in one hand and the camera in the other when working on my own at events."
I haven't specifically studied close range firing on my SB-5000; I'll take a look at it when I have the time.
If one can live with the somewhat lesser quality ,let's assume it is, but just wants a speedlight for occasional use the difference in money involved together with the added features is hard to neglect.
This is certainly true, and Nikon should offer a lower-priced radio-controllable flash. I do agree that the SB-5000 is beyond the happy-to-pay price range for most users.
Nikon should have innovated more, the copycats leapfrogged Nikon on their own flashtech.
Yes, Nikon really dragged their feet regarding radio controlled flash technology.
So again I think Nikon speedlights to be overpriced. (not to mention Nikon was manufacturing in China too till october 2017 which renders our view on supporting the exploitation of workers at least discussable)
Ok, if the SB-5000 is made in China, you got me there, but we don't know what the working conditions and salaries are in Nikon vs. Godox factories in China. I would expect that the employees within Nikon factories enjoy roughly similar working conditions independent of location, though of course this is just my guess and not based on inside knowledge. I do know that Nikon flashes are repairable and do get serviced.
The mentioned glitches in this review are trigger related not so much flash related.
If one has an exclusively Godox ecosystem these triggers aren't even a necessity.
Godox released the much nicer X2 transmitters (60 dollar) and Xpro trigger (70 dollar) in the meantime, you just put those in the hotshoe and you're ready to go and you have the smartphone app to control the unit thus the flashes over Bluetooth as a bonus.
So let's say we want two flashes which are RC with an output off about the same GN and we want to be able to shoot 200 times full power on a day.
The Godox option would cost you
2 860IIs (battery plus charger included, battery good for 650 full power shots) 180 a piece
Two triggers costing 120 or 130 dollar
Total 480-490 dollar
The Nikon option would cost you
For the cheaper two wireless duokit 1310 dollar
8 (at least) NiMh batteries plus charger 48 dollar
So this option would cost you 1360 dollars
That's for a pair of RC units only compatible with the latest Nikon DSLRs and Zs with a max reach of 100ft vs 330ft and comptability with every DSLR
'nuff said? I guess so...
To be honest I feel a bit of an idiot reassessing this
FTR the label on the bottom of the flashhead of my SB5000s clearly states Made in China.
It doesn't take to be a rocketscientist to understand Nikon was manufacturing overthere because of lower costs of labor.
I can't imagine they would pay significantly more than their Chinese contenders.
Thern wrote:
The mentioned glitches in this review are trigger related not so much flash related.
If one has an exclusively Godox ecosystem these triggers aren't even a necessity.
Godox released the much nicer X2 transmitters (60 dollar) and Xpro trigger (70 dollar) in the meantime, you just put those in the hotshoe and you're ready to go and you have the smartphone app to control the unit thus the flashes over Bluetooth as a bonus.
So let's say we want two flashes which are RC with an output off about the same GN and we want to be able to shoot 200 times full power on a day.
The Godox option would cost you
2 860IIs (battery plus charger included, battery good for 650 full power shots) 180 a piece
Two triggers costing 120 or 130 dollar
Total 480-490 dollar
The Nikon option would cost you
For the cheaper two wireless duokit 1310 dollar
8 (at least) NiMh batteries plus charger 48 dollar
So this option would cost you 1360 dollars
That's for a pair of RC units only compatible with the latest Nikon DSLRs and Zs with a max reach of 100ft vs 330ft and comptability with every DSLR
'nuff said? I guess so...
To be honest I feel a bit of an idiot reassessing this
FTR the label on the bottom of the flashhead of my SB5000s clearly states Made in China.
It doesn't take to be a rocketscientist to understand Nikon was manufacturing overthere because of lower costs of labor.
I can't imagine they would pay significantly more than their Chinese contenders.
Quick question on the phone app. I found the app on Android store but the app does not seem to do anything.
It is a bit unclear to me if the app only works on very few specific Android phone for everything or if they mean only for the camera part. They listed very few Samsung and Huawei phones as compatible. Unfortunately my Mate P20 is not only list.
If I click on the camera icon, I got the message that my phone is not supported but when I clicked on the flash icon, no message came up. However, the app did not seem to do anything. I have a few V1 and an AD200 but was not able to control anything. I tried google youtube and www for instruction on the app but very little information is available unfortunately. Or do I need to have Godox A1 unit as well?
