p.1 #1 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
I do a lot of high volume headshot stuff for a client that runs networking conferences across the country, so I've been quickly iterating and improving my setup.
I had been using my mainstay Elinchrom Rotalux Deep Octa 100cm, with a Larson Reflectasol panel (a large foldable rectangular reflector) opposite to the key, and a 12x36" westcott strip for bottom fill. Generally use a 107" fashion gray seamless as that allows me to move around and get different directions of light without moving the modifier - from a pretty dramatic side/loop light to a near clamshell look combined with the strip on the bottom. Powering it has been an AD600 on the key, and AD200 on the bottom fill. Shooting with either a D850 or D750 and the xpro trigger.
The problem has been that 1) lack of a strong, usable modeling light on the AD600 and AD200 makes it challenging to avoid getting reflections in glasses as I shoot people one after the other. 2) I will get a misfire about 5% of the time with the godox lights, where only one light or none fire. I've fiddled with different channels and this has helped a little but wanted a better solution. 3) Swapping out batteries is kind of annoying - even though I get easily around 2000 pops with the AD600 on a single battery, I'm often going over 3-4k shots a day for these. I know that there is an AC adapter for the AD600, but there isn't one for the AD200. I'm also starting to transition away from the Godox lights longer term and investing into Profoto for my commercial work.
My latest setup:
Modifier is now a 120cm Elinchrom Litemotiv in profoto mount, still using a 12x36" strip as bottom fill, and have stopped using the fill panel on the side as the light is large enough to not really need additional fill along with the strip. Love the punchiness of the litemotiv. Strobes have been changed out with D1 Air 500 ws for both strip and key. So much easier positioning people to eliminate/reduce reflections in glasses with real modeling lights, and not having to wonder when I'm about to run out of juice is really great as well. Misfires have been greatly reduced - I think out of 3500 shots the other day, I got about 30-40 misfires, which is amazing and that's without doing much fiddling with channels.
Will post up examples in a bit, but am really happy with the Profoto kit. The other great thing about them is that the D1s are very affordable right now - I got a couple in great condition with an air remote for about the cost of 1 used B1.
p.1 #2 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
The best strobes IMO.
After trying almost every other brand of strobes over the past twenty years, Profoto is the only one I settled on. I still have a bunch of others, (Broncolor, Elinchrom, Bowens, Dynalite to name a few), but most no long work. The Profoto's just keep working. The latest B1Air and D2 Air systems are even more amazing with the TTL remote.
p.1 #3 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
stevesanacore wrote:
The best strobes IMO.
After trying almost every other brand of strobes over the past twenty years, Profoto is the only one I settled on. I still have a bunch of others, (Broncolor, Elinchrom, Bowens, Dynalite to name a few), but most no long work. The Profoto's just keep working. The latest B1Air and D2 Air systems are even more amazing with the TTL remote.
I didn't understand the big deal until I picked up a some B1s, which I then had to do some out of warranty service on myself due to a pretty bad drop that cracked/bent the silver reflector ring. The drop actually didn't break the bulb so it was more of a cosmetic repair. The way they are laid out internally, compartmentalizing components around the thick casing gives the internals a lot more protection than the really just cosmetic casing on the AD600 and AD200 (I've taken apart both my AD600 and AD200 as well). Also the internal connectors are high quality spade type - designed to be connected/disconnected without putting too much stress on circuit boards and such. These strobes are clearly designed to be used for a very long time - whereas the godox strobes are essentially throwaways if they start to go wonky. Case in point, when my AD200 started to go haywire and stopped recognizing the strobe head, the vendor on Amazon that I purchased it through just sent a replacement. They didn't even bother to try and repair it even though it was only a couple months old.
I'm not getting rid of my Godox strobes anytime soon, as they are still great - but I won't be replacing them as they inevitably start to fail.
p.1 #4 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Here's a few from this week's shoot in Las Vegas - all non-retouched (so excuse the flyaway hairs), just basic post-processing tweaks in Capture One. All shot with the D750 and "basic" 85 f1.8G lens as the resolution requirements for these shoots are pretty low so it makes sense to not burn the shutter on my D850s with these high volume jobs.
p.1 #6 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
rico wrote:
Wow, Sung, your high-volume output is outstanding.
Thank you so much!! These are ones I cherry-picked though
I really really appreciate that as I've put a lot of focus and practice on developing a method to pose people of varying body/face types really quickly and get decent expression out of them. We had about one quarter of the conference come through the portrait studio I set up - which was just shy of 800 people in 2 days! Explains why my shoulders still hurt two days later haha. They're a good client though - I end up doing these 1-2 times a month in various parts of the country.
Also - one of the subjects coming through thought that the lighting/shadows were added in post through some sort of application haha. People watch too many iphone commercials
p.1 #7 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Great shots.
I do volume headshot work too. I note you have your subjects standing. With tall and shorter people this can present lighting issues at speed. Do you have time to reset, or do you use a large soft light to compensate? Love to hear of your setup. (liking that gentle blue background - just perfect).
p.1 #8 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Thanks!
I’ll also get a pretty big range of heights - from close to 4 ft to almost 7 ft.
My key is on a 10 ft air cushioned light stand with a nice wide base for added stability. I’ll crank the light up and down for tall or short subjects but the light source is 120cm so even if I forget to bring it down for shorter people, they will still get lit properly. I also have the light placed and exposed in such a way that I have a good sized sweet spot zone for exposure (so if they’re not exactly on the mark I’ve laid down they won’t be horribly under or over exposed). I also will meter to be a half stop under exposed and then lift the exposure by a half stop in capture one as they process - this is because I’ll have a range of people that are very light or very dark skinned so i don’t want to blow out the exposure on someone that is very light skinned compared to me. If someone is very dark skinned I may pump up the energy by 2/10 but generally I find the under expose in camera and increase exposure in capture one technique is more foolproof
My lower fill light is on its lowest power and I find that I barely have to adjust it even for really short people. It’s typically on a backdrop light stand - so the strobe is sitting just barely off the floor.
I have tried sitting and standing subjects and just find that people tend to slouch more and lose their energy when they’re sitting. Also people that have a little extra on their middle have an easier time hiding it when they stand.
I don’t have anything against sitting subjects though - I just tend to prefer most people standing. Some look great either way, but I’ve found that most people look better posture and energy-wise when they stand versus when they sit.
I have been fortunate though that all the spaces I’ve been shooting in have had very tall ceilings, so I can have the top of my light at 10 feet high and not worry about it scraping the ceiling. If I had to shoot in a regular office situation with more normal ceiling height, I’d just use my Elinchrom Rotalux deep octa 100cm (I bring both just in case as I rarely get to look at the venue before I fly out for the shoot).
I am using a fashion gray seamless from Savage. The blue tint is partly due to a bit of grading that I’ve added in post - I tend to like my studio images on the cooler side color temp wise, but I believe fashion gray also has a little bit of blue in it, as comparing it to Stone Gray (which is what I usually use), the Stone Gray is a much “truer” gray at 5500k.
Like you I’ve wondered which side to put the light on for high volume work. I’ve tried it on the left side the last few, and switched to camera right for this and I feel like it works better there. I tend to want my subjects turned slightly away from the light, and most people being right handed, tend to turn to the right (as a survival instinct we use our left arm for guarding and our right arm to strike).
Lastly, I really like the litemotiv because even though it is nice and soft even with just the inner diffuser (which is how I always use it), the pebbled silver interior gives the light a nice punch without being overly specular. My westcott silver interior rapid boxes are more specular with just the inner diffuser panel because the silver lining is tight and smooth like a dull mirror - which I’ve seen Westcott tout as a “feature” but I actually think it makes the light less useful even though it might make it incrementally more efficient with a smooth silver interior. Also even though the litemotiv is pretty big, placed close it has a pretty quick fall off so it has a nice directionality that my old (now sold) 5 ft profoto RFI Octa lacked.
leethecam wrote:
Great shots.
I do volume headshot work too. I note you have your subjects standing. With tall and shorter people this can present lighting issues at speed. Do you have time to reset, or do you use a large soft light to compensate? Love to hear of your setup. (liking that gentle blue background - just perfect).
p.1 #9 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Your shots look good, but for the title, to each their own.
I'm so glad to have given up corded monolights and all the complications that come with dealing with location power - finding the working outlets, dragging extension cords, taping/bagging them down. Good riddance.
Swapping out a battery takes 30 seconds and the first one goes on the charger - I just keep them rotating indefinitely.
Modeling lights are for sure convenient and in some extreme cases even necessary, but just catching reflections in eyeglasses? I'm cool using an LED clamped to my key, or setup nearby on its own stand
Curious with all your misfires - are you using the Pro transmitter, or the older XT1 or whatever they're called? 30-40 is high, even for a 3000 shot day, especially for subjects that aren't really moving much.
All that said, it's good to be happy with your tools and workflow. Congrats on finding your groove.
p.1 #10 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
There is no question that using my B1's and not having to depend on looking for outlets and carrying extension cords is a major leap in location work. I could never go back to using only AC powered lights anymore and will add more B1's as my old Compacts and D1's wear out. Technology has given us another major boost to make our jobs easier.
p.1 #12 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
jlafferty wrote:
Your shots look good, but for the title, to each their own.
I'm so glad to have given up corded monolights and all the complications that come with dealing with location power - finding the working outlets, dragging extension cords, taping/bagging them down. Good riddance.
Swapping out a battery takes 30 seconds and the first one goes on the charger - I just keep them rotating indefinitely.
Modeling lights are for sure convenient and in some extreme cases even necessary, but just catching reflections in eyeglasses? I'm cool using an LED clamped to my key, or setup nearby on its own stand
Curious with all your misfires - are you using the Pro transmitter, or the older XT1 or whatever they're called? 30-40 is high, even for a 3000 shot day, especially for subjects that aren't really moving much.
All that said, it's good to be happy with your tools and workflow. Congrats on finding your groove....Show more →
Something I didn't mention that has been bugging me with my older Godox AD600 (about two years old) is that it's starting to do random shifts in tint - like one frame out of sequence will have a tint shift. I have a spare bulb so swapped it out, but not sure if it's just from using them hard for 8 hours at a time of continuous shooting or because of an aging bulb, or just an aging strobe. I have been using the latest Xpro trigger for Godox (which I've found has pretty poor battery life for whatever reason) and switching out to to channel 2 or 3 helps a little bit. Typically what happens is just the fill/kicker will fire and not the key.
As for the plug-in vs battery power, I generally much much prefer battery powered strobes for shoots - regardless of whether I'm doing headshots at someone's office, or on location doing a commercial shoot. I have B1s as well, and they are typically what I pack for commercial location shoots.
For this specific client, we are typically in a dedicated event space with a crew that runs power to wherever I need, tapes it down, etc which is a huge convenience and a bit unusual. Swapping batteries isn't a problem for me as I do have extra ones for my B1s - but I've found that running the modeling light on the B1s drastically reduce their battery life (and it doesn't seem worthwhile considering how relatively weak it is compared to the D1 modeling light). This is a somewhat unusual/extreme workflow, as I have less than 5 minutes per person, so having a strong modeling light to check for reflections in glasses and get a sense of how the light looks as it goes from frontal to side has helped me keep my output quality consistent. All of the event spaces we've been shooting in have been well lit too, so the D1 modeling light has been the only one that's actually been visible.
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stevesanacore wrote:
There is no question that using my B1's and not having to depend on looking for outlets and carrying extension cords is a major leap in location work. I could never go back to using only AC powered lights anymore and will add more B1's as my old Compacts and D1's wear out. Technology has given us another major boost to make our jobs easier.
Totally agree! I just wish the B1s had some sort of provision for an AC adapter for certain use cases. I'm just hoping the B2s drop in price more so I can justify picking a couple up - right now it doesn't make sense for me to buy them considering they are about the same price as a B1 used. My entire Godox kit (two ad600s and two ad200s) cost me less than one B2!
p.1 #13 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Fotografpaul wrote:
Like it's a matter of opinion? Of course, AC power is better than battery packs for high volume shoots.
If you can't secure your set, then one should find another occupation period.
As photographers, it's our job to make the set safe for everyone. Be it cords, stands or dangling battery units from booms etc.
I wish I liked the Elinchrom trigger more - the ELB 500 is an awesome bit of kit, but the responsiveness and startup time of the trigger kind of kills me. Considering my most used modifiers are elinchrom it'd make sense haha.
Also you are one of the reasons why I ended up picking up the litemotiv as you'd praised it so much. I still like my rotalux deep octa, but man the quality of light with just the inner diffusor panel on the litemotiv is just awesome - diffuse but still punchy.
p.1 #14 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
sungphoto wrote:
I didn't understand the big deal until I picked up a some B1s, which I then had to do some out of warranty service on myself due to a pretty bad drop that cracked/bent the silver reflector ring. The drop actually didn't break the bulb so it was more of a cosmetic repair. The way they are laid out internally, compartmentalizing components around the thick casing gives the internals a lot more protection than the really just cosmetic casing on the AD600 and AD200 (I've taken apart both my AD600 and AD200 as well). Also the internal connectors are high quality spade type - designed to be connected/disconnected without putting too much stress on circuit boards and such. These strobes are clearly designed to be used for a very long time - whereas the godox strobes are essentially throwaways if they start to go wonky. Case in point, when my AD200 started to go haywire and stopped recognizing the strobe head, the vendor on Amazon that I purchased it through just sent a replacement. They didn't even bother to try and repair it even though it was only a couple months old.
I'm not getting rid of my Godox strobes anytime soon, as they are still great - but I won't be replacing them as they inevitably start to fail....Show more →
Have you used Profoto equipment over really long timeframes (e.g, over 10 years?). I've been using Profoto kit since 2004 and still have a few examples. It's good stuff but far from bulletproof, and very expensive to maintain and service. My B600s, Compacts, and Acutes have been serviced more than a few times for a variety of expected and unexpected issues - new pack power buttons and faceplates for $350; flash tubes at $250 apiece; batteries running anywhere from $200-600 depending; replacement heads for anywhere between $800-$1000. An entire Godox AD200 costs about the same as a Profoto flash tube, so I don't see why you'd not replace that but happily service a Profoto unit.
Profoto price premiums used to make a lot of sense, but I don't think they make much sense now. Profits are easier to use than the cheaper alternatives, but not by much. They are marginally more durable but the service costs approach the replacement costs for a lot of Godox equipment. They are heavier and less portable. B2s and A1s are really expensive given the power and capabilities they're offering.
Profotos rental infrastructure is and color accuracy is better, but barely worth it to me anymore. I only take my Profotos out of the house when I need more than 200W/s.
p.1 #16 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Perhaps the driving force between Profoto and Godox is money. Profoto has a big upfront cost while Godox is low. Profoto requires a maintenance budget while Godox doesn't. For many photogs, the money issue is more important than any real or perceived Profoto benefit. If they never use—or even touch—an Acute pack or simple modifier like the snoot, they have no idea where the money goes. Ignorance is bliss.
Re battery vs A/C, I have Profoto packs of both types and mix them freely in the studio. While I certainly enjoy the reduced clutter of a battery pack, the loss of modelling light is consequential. Besides aiding setup, modelling prevents iris dilation. We don't want "bedroom eyes" in a corporate headshot. I'm hunting for an obscure Profoto accessory that turns my Pro-B2 into a wall-powered unit. Would be nice to use 250W modelling for more than 10 seconds at a time. No such option for AcuteB fans, sadly.
p.1 #17 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Arka wrote:
Have you used Profoto equipment over really long timeframes (e.g, over 10 years?). I've been using Profoto kit since 2004 and still have a few examples. It's good stuff but far from bulletproof, and very expensive to maintain and service. My B600s, Compacts, and Acutes have been serviced more than a few times for a variety of expected and unexpected issues - new pack power buttons and faceplates for $350; flash tubes at $250 apiece; batteries running anywhere from $200-600 depending; replacement heads for anywhere between $800-$1000. An entire Godox AD200 costs about the same as a Profoto flash tube, so I don't see why you'd not replace that but happily service a Profoto unit.
Profoto price premiums used to make a lot of sense, but I don't think they make much sense now. Profits are easier to use than the cheaper alternatives, but not by much. They are marginally more durable but the service costs approach the replacement costs for a lot of Godox equipment. They are heavier and less portable. B2s and A1s are really expensive given the power and capabilities they're offering.
Profotos rental infrastructure is and color accuracy is better, but barely worth it to me anymore. I only take my Profotos out of the house when I need more than 200W/s. ...Show more →
The newest Godox AD600 Pro is actually better or at least equal for colour accuracy to the Profoto B1X.
p.1 #18 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
I agree - iris dilation is absolutely an advantage that the plug in D1’s 300w modeling light has that my plug Godox and profoto B1s can’t really match.
I also find that the TTL lock function on the B1s is a bit more accurate with initial TTL reading, and quicker than the copycat functionality in the new Godox xpro triggers.
Also one of the main things driving my conversion to profoto for my commercial and high volume headshot stuff is accessibility to rentals in every major city. I can load up one of my smaller messenger style camera bags with a couple camera bodies, lenses and triggers, and get on a plane to a shoot knowing that the assistant I hire on the other end has all the lighting and grip gear stuff rented and ready to go, and worst case if the ones I bring die or get damaged catastrophically during a shoot I can rent another locally. Also if I need more than the D1s and B1s I own for a really big job (I occasionally get requests for dual shooter setups - identical portrait setups side by side) it’s easy to add an extra few lights from a rental house. You can’t do that with Godox right now - Adorama and B&H last time I checked don’t stock them in their rentals even though they sell them on the retail side. Again, not knocking the value of the Godox kit - I’m not getting rid of mine for now as they are great lights, but for my most important large clients that comprise a majority of my revenue, it totally makes sense to invest in an easily expandable system.
Also.. I had no idea there was an AC adapter accessory for the B2!! This makes me reconsider them - you might find some competition on eBay haha
rico wrote:
Perhaps the driving force between Profoto and Godox is money. Profoto has a big upfront cost while Godox is low. Profoto requires a maintenance budget while Godox doesn't. For many photogs, the money issue is more important than any real or perceived Profoto benefit. If they never use—or even touch—an Acute pack or simple modifier like the snoot, they have no idea where the money goes. Ignorance is bliss.
Re battery vs A/C, I have Profoto packs of both types and mix them freely in the studio. While I certainly enjoy the reduced clutter of a battery pack, the loss of modelling light is consequential. Besides aiding setup, modelling prevents iris dilation. We don't want "bedroom eyes" in a corporate headshot. I'm hunting for an obscure Profoto accessory that turns my Pro-B2 into a wall-powered unit. Would be nice to use 250W modelling for more than 10 seconds at a time. No such option for AcuteB fans, sadly....Show more →
p.1 #19 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
I’ve done high volume (catalog) jewelry work with the original AD600 and AD200 and have found them totally acceptable for color accuracy.
I’m not interested in the new ad600 pro given that I already have a couple of the first version that generally work pretty well. That said, I’m wondering what was causing the random tint shifts on longer shoots (part of the reason I’ve been exploring different lighting systems), but the main reason why I switched to profoto for these high volume shoots is to reduce my misfire rate - which has been greatly reduced with the Profotos. For my smaller jobs like family portraits and weddings, I’m totally comfortable using Godox - especially given the tendency of inebriated wedding guests to knock over light stands
JBPhotog wrote:
The newest Godox AD600 Pro is actually better for colour accuracy than the Profoto B1X.
p.1 #20 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
I think you’ve reached peak gear nerd when you think profotos smell better than Godox. So yeah I guess I’m a peak gear nerd.
But yes, Elinchrom modifiers plus Profoto strobe is my favorite combo so far. I am very tempted to pick up the 150cm litemotiv even though it’d be totally overkill for 99% of my work
Mark_L wrote:
Profoto stuff is pricey but it is just so nice to use. D1 system with air trigger is so nice in the studio.
