p.2 #1 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Guys, a $58 Aputure Amaran and a $20 DSTE battery dilate the hell out of pupils and run for at least 6 hours at a charge (I ran a timer on mine and had finished my gig before it ran out). Two batteries and you're good for a 12 hour day without question.
Color accuracy on the XplorPro, even in standard mode, is *at least* as good as a Pro8a, if not better, and I guarantee it's better in Color Mode. That's a battery strobe versus what is currently the most widely installed and dominant AC studio light Profoto offers. I have the numbers to back it up courtesy the Sekonic C700.
Sung: I've seen the color shift you're talking about - my theory is that it happens as the strobe recharges the capacitors fully every, hmm, 7-10 frames. But guess what? It happens with Profoto too. In fact IIRC the Pro8a numbers I got showed greater shifts over the power range than the original Xplor.
Not trying to argue - just looking to reframe the conversation. I think in all but a few cases, the needs of really tight tolerances in color accuracy are overstated. And if they aren't, solutions in post are pretty easy. The old ways of doing things are over. If you have an AC based workflow you're happy with, you like how the knobs feel, how the strobe smells, more power to you. But to insist it's objectively better is questionable
p.2 #2 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Just as an addendum: if I'm shooting a full day of ecommerce, I'm choosing AC strobes, likely Profoto. For everything else, and especially location portraits/headshots, it's battery powered strobe for me.
p.2 #3 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
jlafferty wrote:
Guys, a $58 Aputure Amaran and a $20 DSTE battery dilate the hell out of pupils and run for at least 6 hours at a charge (I ran a timer on mine and had finished my gig before it ran out). Two batteries and you're good for a 12 hour day without question.
Color accuracy on the XplorPro, even in standard mode, is *at least* as good as a Pro8a, if not better, and I guarantee it's better in Color Mode. That's a battery strobe versus what is currently the most widely installed and dominant AC studio light Profoto offers. I have the numbers to back it up courtesy the Sekonic C700.
Sung: I've seen the color shift you're talking about - my theory is that it happens as the strobe recharges the capacitors fully every, hmm, 7-10 frames. But guess what? It happens with Profoto too. In fact IIRC the Pro8a numbers I got showed greater shifts over the power range than the original Xplor.
Not trying to argue - just looking to reframe the conversation. The old ways of doing things are over. If you have an AC based workflow you're happy with, you like how the knobs feel, how the strobe smells, more power to you. But to insist it's objectively better is questionable ...Show more →
Oh I totally agree one isn't objectively better - they're tools, and one tool suits one person's workflow and situation better than others.
I haven't noticed the same random tint shift occur on my B1s and D1s, but I haven't used them nearly as much as my Godox kit.
I've thought about adding a small LED panel to my location kit and those aputures look great - would also make for a fun light painting tool. They'd be great for use as a focus aid and I'm sure would help dilate pupils in dark environments, but as a modeling light it'd be less useful than one integrated into the strobe. That said in most situations I'm ok with not having a modeling light, but when I have only a few minutes with subjects, a strong AC powered modeling light is a very useful workflow aid.
p.2 #4 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
jlafferty wrote:
Just as an addendum: if I'm shooting a full day of ecommerce, I'm choosing AC strobes, likely Profoto. For everything else, and especially location portraits/headshots, it's battery powered strobe for me.
Totally agree on ecomm - that's actually the other reason why I picked up the D1s (also found a ridiculous deal on a 2 strobe air kit). Nice to not have to bring boomed lights down to replace batteries when you need to have everything set up for a week of catalog work.
And 19 times out of 20 I absolutely would prefer battery powered strobes for everything else. This high volume client and one of its partners that's started to hire me too has somewhat specific needs, but with the benefit of having an built-in event crew that lays down power and such for us at the location (I don't want to lug around extension cables and power strips if I don't have to either). That's why I'm keeping both systems for now
p.2 #5 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
rico wrote:
Perhaps the driving force between Profoto and Godox is money. Profoto has a big upfront cost while Godox is low. Profoto requires a maintenance budget while Godox doesn't. For many photogs, the money issue is more important than any real or perceived Profoto benefit. If they never use—or even touch—an Acute pack or simple modifier like the snoot, they have no idea where the money goes. Ignorance is bliss.
Well, I've been using Profoto lights and modifiers for years - Acutes, AcuteB's, B1, Compacts, and Pro7s. I think the "benefits" of the light shapers versus other present day options is modest at best. And some of their new products like the B2 and A1 are ludicrously expensive for what Profoto expects people to pay for them. As for the light shapers, softboxes still yellow, softbox poles still bend and break, and the Profoto boxes aren't exactly the easiest to deploy. The reflectors are just OK (quite susceptible to dings), the grids are atrociously expensive with no real durability benefit, and the other shapers are often well-built but decidedly unportable. I have a beauty dish and grid that I love but I rarely use on location shoots because it's a pain to drag around - I can usually use a portable octa and grid to get a similar effect.
p.2 #6 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
jlafferty wrote:
Color accuracy on the XplorPro, even in standard mode, is *at least* as good as a Pro8a, if not better, and I guarantee it's better in Color Mode. That's a battery strobe versus what is currently the most widely installed and dominant AC studio light Profoto offers. I have the numbers to back it up courtesy the Sekonic C700.
No Pro-8a experience, but my D4 is within color spec using a C-500. Unfortuately, that spec is ±150K across the range which is quite noticeable on tabletop. At least the shot-to-shot consistency is within 10K, so I fine-tune my exposure by aperture rather than tweak the light level. Products with a varistor (AcuteB, Pro-B2, D1, Compacts, etc) shift by 90K per f-stop of energy change as quoted by Paul Buff and measured by me. IGBT makes life much easier for us color freaks but only the latest models from lighting vendors have it.
p.2 #7 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
rico wrote:
No Pro-8a experience, but my D4 is within color spec using a C-500. Unfortuately, that spec is ±150K across the range which is quite noticeable on tabletop. At least the shot-to-shot consistency is within 10K, so I fine-tune my exposure by aperture rather than tweak the light level. Products with a varistor (AcuteB, Pro-B2, D1, Compacts, etc) shift by 90K per f-stop of energy change as quoted by Paul Buff and measured by me. IGBT makes life much easier for us color freaks but only the latest models from lighting vendors have it.
Would you recommend the Pro-B2 over the Pro-7B? Also I wish profoto product names were less confusing - I thought you meant earlier that the 250 ws B2 had an AC adapter, and of course you meant the Pro-B2
I have been on the lookout for a condition pro-7b setup as the prices are insanely low right now for a 1200 ws battery powered pack and head system.
p.2 #8 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
sungphoto wrote:
Would you recommend the Pro-B2 over the Pro-7B?
I remember just before the Pro-B2 was released when the 7B was top dog and really expensive. If you avoid rental houses and clueless newbies, a 7B should serve you perfectly on location. Plenty of knowledgeable photogs are listing their lightly-used packs and can vouch for their functionality. Both models are 1200J, have two ports and share the same battery. The Pro-B2 offers 250W modelling, a second energy dial, and inbuilt wireless triggering options. My pack has PW but AirS is available. The second energy dial allows finer tuning and increases the overall range by a stop. I personally favor the Pro-B2 route if the price is right. The Pro-B3 is still quite expensive and only improved by the shipped battery (LiFe). In concept, both earlier packs can take that same LiFe for a (slightly) lighter load.
There's a serious argument for picking up an AcuteB or three—those are going for chump change. Single 600J port, 60W modelling (with AcuteB head), LiFe option, awesome range of 9-600J. You can attach any Acute head or fixture. Unlike the Pro line, there's no cooling option for heads.
Goods Times for Profoto bottom-feeders. I'm chasing a Pro-B head and a StickLight (stiff competition on the latter).
p.2 #9 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Hm I didn’t realize the pro-b2 has Air support. Was assuming it would have to be the typical PW setup like on the 7b. I think you’ve talked me into a pro-b2
rico wrote:
I remember just before the Pro-B2 was released when the 7B was top dog and really expensive. If you avoid rental houses and clueless newbies, a 7B should serve you perfectly on location. Plenty of knowledgeable photogs are listing their lightly-used packs and can vouch for their functionality. Both models are 1200J, have two ports and share the same battery. The Pro-B2 offers 250W modelling, a second energy dial, and inbuilt wireless triggering options. My pack has PW but AirS is available. The second energy dial allows finer tuning and increases the overall range by a stop. I personally favor the Pro-B2 route if the price is right. The Pro-B3 is still quite expensive and only improved by the shipped battery (LiFe). In concept, both earlier packs can take that same LiFe for a (slightly) lighter load.
There's a serious argument for picking up an AcuteB or three—those are going for chump change. Single 600J port, 60W modelling (with AcuteB head), LiFe option, awesome range of 9-600J. You can attach any Acute head or fixture. Unlike the Pro line, there's no cooling option for heads.
Goods Times for Profoto bottom-feeders. I'm chasing a Pro-B head and a StickLight (stiff competition on the latter). ...Show more →
p.2 #10 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
For me Profoto is the best choice for all the travel I do. The abuse my lights take on location and still work, is amazing. Wasn't the case with any other brand that I had. The ability for my D1's and Compacts to work on 120 or 220 volts is also very important. Price is important but I find new companies making modifiers for a fraction of the price of Profoto along with Profoto's own line of less expensive accessories. The grid sets for my B1's are only $99. If I only worked in a small product studio where the gear was more carefully handled, there would be more options.
p.2 #11 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
rico wrote:
There's a serious argument for picking up an AcuteB or three—those are going for chump change. Single 600J port, 60W modelling (with AcuteB head), LiFe option, awesome range of 9-600J. You can attach any Acute head or fixture. Unlike the Pro line, there's no cooling option for heads.
Goods Times for Profoto bottom-feeders. I'm chasing a Pro-B head and a StickLight (stiff competition on the latter).
If you go that route, get one with Lithium Ion Iron Phosphate (LiFe) batteries. The lead-acid batteries weigh a ton - I'm still rocking those because I can't be bothered to pay Profoto prices for a working LiFe ion pack. The they do weigh a lot less while delivering a lot more power.
Given how expensive the LiFe batteries are ($655!!), I've considered getting an AirS B600 - like this one for around $1000.
p.2 #12 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
The unused StickLight went for $730, or ⅓ of retail—simply a steal. No-one bid on the unused Pro-B head so I got it for $300, or less than ⅓ of retail and less than some beat up AcuteB heads I see. The Pro-B head only operates on 7B and Pro-B battery packs, hence the lower demand. It supports 100W modelling which is perfect for iris control.
p.2 #14 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
We have D1's with over a million shots on them and only on their 2nd bulb in our studio. Serious workhorses with very little shot to shot power or colour variation. But it's a new world out there today, a battery world.
p.2 #15 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
Beni wrote:
We have D1's with over a million shots on them and only on their 2nd bulb in our studio. Serious workhorses with very little shot to shot power or colour variation. But it's a new world out there today, a battery world.
Totally agree - that's why having both is nice Location work most of the time I'm 100% battery powered. I'm still looking for a minty pro-7B to use in conjunction with my B1s on location. Might be pulling the trigger this weekend.
p.2 #16 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
sungphoto wrote:
That said, I’m wondering what was causing the random tint shifts on longer shoots
Assuming that your exposures are consistent when seeing the tint shift, possibly inconsistent flash durations. I could see that happening with the cheeper Godox gear.
p.2 #17 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
MRomine wrote:
Assuming that you exposures are consistent when seeing the tint shift, possibly inconsistent flash durations. I could see that happening with the cheeper Godox gear.
Yeah not changing the power on the lights - same exposure settings on camera.
I noticed it during a couple long shoot days where I was firing them for pretty much 8 hours straight with only a few 15-30 breaks.
So far I've been so happy with the Profotos for my location stuff that I'm thinking about just getting rid of my AD600s, and just keeping a couple AD200s and speedlites for my godox kit.
The copycat TTL/Manual lock functionality on the new Godox xpro trigger is a nice addition, but the Profoto Air TTL remote does it better. I just wish the B2 wasn't about the same price as a B1
p.2 #18 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
sungphoto wrote:
Yeah not changing the power on the lights - same exposure settings on camera.
Then the difference in color temps that you are seeing is most likely due to inconsistent flash duration.
One of the main advantages of high end studio systems like BronColor is that they maintain, through their electronics, a very repeatable flash duration as you move up and down the power settings on their power packs. Great for critical color work for fashion.
p.2 #19 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
The links are informative to a degree but as for use in fashion, the most broadly used lights are the Profoto 8a - and in my tests they vary in color consistency more wildly than the XplorPro.
The link you posted about speedlights is interesting, but is really only distantly related to shifts you'd see in a modern battery powered monolight, which are generally much better.
At the end of the day I'm going to say I think - for most use cases - the color consistency thing is overstated.
MRomine wrote:
Then the difference in color temps that you are seeing is most likely due to inconsistent flash duration.
One of the main advantages of high end studio systems like BronColor is that they maintain, through their electronics, a very repeatable flash duration as you move up and down the power settings on their power packs. Great for critical color work for fashion.
p.2 #20 · Profoto D1s better than Godox for long sessions
jlafferty wrote:
The links are informative to a degree but as for use in fashion, the most broadly used lights are the Profoto 8a - and in my tests they vary in color consistency more wildly than the XplorPro.
The link you posted about speedlights is interesting, but is really only distantly related to shifts you'd see in a modern battery powered monolight, which are generally much better.
At the end of the day I'm going to say I think - for most use cases - the color consistency thing is overstated.
Maybe I'm reading your tone incorrectly but your response almost sounds dismissive as if you think flash duration could not possibly be the reason for the inconsistencies in the color of your files. Flash duration and color temperature inconsistencies have been an issue as long as I have known anything about strobes. Which is a good 35 years or so. So what I shared with you above is nothing new. Obviously there have been huge strides in technology in this arena and there have been great improvements. But it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. Those who shoot commercially wether it be product, fashion, cars or anything else where color reproduction and color consistency is an absolute must and where a certain color must be held or matched to a standard PMS color come to realize that they need better control and spend the money on Broncolor gear. This way they can to be assured of minimizing these issues. Broncolor has long been the cadillac of strobes and they are still the best at providing the least amount of color variance from full power to minimal power. That doesn't mean that for 90% of the work being done today something else wont work. Most jobs simply don't require that level of control.
You said that Profoto is the most broadly used lights in fashion today but that is different than saying that Profoto is the most color accurate system in use today. That's two different things entirely. Just because they are the most used by fashion shooters does not mean they they are the best at color reproduction and consistency. There are all kinds of reasons why fashion shooters shoot with Profoto, which I love btw. Many are influenced by what other photographers do so they think they have the same to achieve the same. So they buy Profoto gear because their mentor who is a successful shooter uses it. Most fashion shooters aren't really fashion shooters at all and would have no idea how to go about biding, organizing and pulling off a true fashion gig but they call themselves fashion shooters because it is the cool thing to be. Plus most fashion shooters could never afford Broncolor gear anyway. There are few fashion shooters who are really making any money at being a fashion shooter. Nor do they have any idea what Broncolor gear it brings to the table over Profoto gear and most don't care anyway.
I'm not saying for a certainty that your gear is suffering from inconsistent flash durations and subsequently effecting the color temperature output of your light because I'm not a technician but I also wound not be surprised if that is the problem that you are having. It's more common than you may think. So I threw that out there because you seemed to be looking for some ideas or answers.
