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Archive 2008 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8

  
 
Joop Mees
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


I'm thinking of adding a CZ 85/1.4 contax mount to my alt gear selection, however,
I just read somewhere that the lens is not so sharp at f/1.4.
How good/ bad is that? I also read the out-of-focus-rendering between
f/2 and f/4 where apparently the lens is sharp, is quite ugly. (called "ninja star"??)
Does anyone have some examples? Any advice on this lens is welcome,
Thanks in advance. Joop



Feb 14, 2008 at 03:46 AM
slungu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Joop,
I think some good examples can be found in this thread :http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=9425
I think both cogitech and Anden will be able to tell you something about it.
The problem that occurs between 2.0 and 4.0 is that at wide open, the opening is of course round. As you stop down, the blades appear and until f4 they give a ninja star like opening, hence the "strange" look of OOF rendering. Some dislike it, some say it's a personal signature ( "it's not a bug, it's a feature" ). That remains to be seen. If you dislike it, you might want to look into the Leica Summicron 90mm 2.0 ( the non-APO version ). I for myself decided to get the CZ and sell the Leica, because I intend to use it either at 1.4 ( so being able to shoot at 1.4 was the main reason ) for inside shots, or from 4.0 onwards for outdoor shots.



Feb 14, 2008 at 05:37 AM
Conner999
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Haven't used the CZ 85/1.4 but am testing a Leica 80Lux. I have yet to read of a lens, short of the 200/1.8 or some other rare exotica that is truely sharp at 1.2-1.4. Shooting that fast requires a trade-off. What you wnat to look for is as you suggest in your questions - decent wide-open, good bokeh and a lens that gets sharp quickly as you stop it down.

If you look at the photodo.com ratings on fast 80-85s and then look at the MTF charts you see just this effect - nice high ratings (4.6/5 IIRC for the CZ) but it's not WO - they make up for it as the lens stops down. The one drawback of the CZ is apparently it's performance suffers at near minium focus distance. I think slrlensreview.com and/or 16-9.net have comparative tests.

Personally, the Leica 80 Lux does a great job. As for the EF 85/1.2 II - it wasn't for me. I wanted good manual focus, no CA and that Leica/Zeiss accurate color rendition. YMMV



Feb 14, 2008 at 08:30 AM
you2
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


I believe the new MM 85f1.4 address this issue by rounding the blades. This was one of the changes made when production was moved to Japan. One thing I like about an 85f1.4 is that at f1.4 and more so at f2 the center is already fairly sharp but the edges have a nice fall off. If you want biting sharp edge to edge you can obtain it by f4.
--


slungu wrote:
Joop,
I think some good examples can be found in this thread :http://forum.manualfocus.org/viewtopic.php?id=9425
I think both cogitech and Anden will be able to tell you something about it.
The problem that occurs between 2.0 and 4.0 is that at wide open, the opening is of course round. As you stop down, the blades appear and until f4 they give a ninja star like opening, hence the "strange" look of OOF rendering. Some dislike it, some say it's a personal signature ( "it's not a bug, it's a feature" ). That remains to be seen. If you dislike it, you might want to
...Show more



Feb 14, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Andi Dietrich
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


IMO it is more imporant in movies, in some of them you can see the ninja star in the back ground and it looks nice because the blobs are more like sparkling stars in place of blobs

I only saw it a few times in real live photography and i tried to provoke it here and comparing with my ef 1.8

http://www.andidietrich.com/fm2/cx.jpg

http://www.andidietrich.com/fm2/ef.jpg

Edited on Feb 14, 2008 at 08:42 AM



Feb 14, 2008 at 08:41 AM
slungu
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


you2 wrote:
I believe the new MM 85f1.4 address this issue by rounding the blades. This was one of the changes made when production was moved to Japan. One thing I like about an 85f1.4 is that at f1.4 and more so at f2 the center is already fairly sharp but the edges have a nice fall off. If you want biting sharp edge to edge you can obtain it by f4.
--


Yes, I have the old AE version, and I think there was some change regarding the blades in the MM version of the lens.



Feb 14, 2008 at 08:52 AM
Joop Mees
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


thanks so far, I was looking at a MM version of the lens. Good to know that there has been a change in blades.


Feb 14, 2008 at 09:17 AM
walshy64
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


No the MM does it also

85/1.4 Planar MM

85/1.4 Planar MM


85/1.4 Planar MM


But its not always there only in real hard highlight spots.. The lens is a stunner and much loved the way it is.If you dont like it theres always an alternative 85/1.4 Nikkor etc...

The Jupiter 9 85/2 (M42) is worth a look.@f/2.8 is a stunning lens


Edited on Feb 17, 2008 at 06:03 PM



Feb 17, 2008 at 06:02 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


walshy64 wrote:
No the MM does it also


Maybe there's more than one variant of blade design for the MM version, because my 85/1.4 MM doesn't make the ninja star. I just took a few test shots at f/2.0 on my 5D, attached below as a quickie composite of screen captures. The top right shows the diaphragm at f/2.0 - no star pattern there. The larger background shot shows the setup, with a pretty bright highlight. The lower right panel shows the OOF highlight, with the inset magnifying glass pointer-balloon-thingy showing it at 100% in CS3 ACR, no sharpening.









Feb 17, 2008 at 08:35 PM
Orio
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Three quick things:

1) Who said the Planar 1.4/85 isn't sharp wide open? It is perfectly sharp. MUCH sharper than the Canon EF 2/100 wide open (just to name the first EF lens that comes to mind). The Planar 1.4/85 might not SEEM sharp if the photographer has badly focused - which is quite easy with the shallow DOF provided by the lens wide open. Believe me you will never have any sharpness problem with the 1.4/85

2) I have both the AE and MM versions of this lens and YES, the MM IS different. The blades in the MM version are regular, they don't have the hook-shaped "tails" of the AE version that produce the odd OFF highlights.

3) Planars are great for the 3D effect, but are not reputed for having the best bokeh around. If bokeh is important, buy the 2.8/85 Sonnar instead. Or the 3.5/100 Sonnar which is even better.




Feb 17, 2008 at 09:30 PM
Orio
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Here's a few samples taken with Planar 1.4/85 AE version hand-held, in low available light and very high ISO:

http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/carnevale2008_2/slides/carnevale2008_2_231.html

http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/carnevale2008_2/slides/carnevale2008_2_232.html

http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/carnevale2008_2/slides/carnevale2008_2_237.html

http://www.oriofoto.net/temp/carnevale2008_2/slides/carnevale2008_2_247.html

The last one was surely wide open, the other ones can't remember but if they were not wide open, they were very near (like f/2, not more) because the available light was very low and I needed to keep a fast shutter time to freeze action.

I am not the kind who does pixel peeping, so I can not swear these takes are defect-less, in any case I have no problem with the sharpness and I am very happy with the results overall.

Edited on Feb 17, 2008 at 10:07 PM



Feb 17, 2008 at 10:04 PM
Leon Noel
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


If this focal length is used by many for portraits shots (which I believe it is), then speed, sharpness *and* bokeh are all significant.

A lens could be extremely sharp and fast (1.2 to 1.8) but if it gives a harsh/unpleasant rendering of back/foreground OOF areas then it wouldn't be very desirable (at least to me), all the more reason why lenses that meet all these criteria normally cost a lot.




Feb 17, 2008 at 11:15 PM
rico
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


A special feature of the P85/1.4 is very low linear distortion of 0.5%. Nothing wider in the C/Y line comes close. Well, the 60 Makro is also 0.5% at infinity, but no full-frame sharpness.


Feb 18, 2008 at 02:18 AM
ovredal73
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


My copy of the 85 is just stunningly sharp wide open. I think it is an MM version, gotta check later.


Feb 18, 2008 at 11:15 AM
chris hwang
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Here is my Germany made CZ Planar 85 AE (not MM) compared to Canon 85 1.8 you can see the "ninja star" at 2.0

other images in another post on this forum =)

85mm-2.0



Feb 18, 2008 at 12:17 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


My Japanese made MM version has regular aperture blades as well. However, my German made 35mm 1.4 AE version does feature the ninja star "signature".


Feb 21, 2008 at 11:42 AM
Joop Mees
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


I just picked up the lens, it's a german 85/1.4MM and has nice round aperture blades.
I only now noticed my 35/1.4 AE has also the ninja feature at f/2 and f/2.8.
Did not notice it in my pictures yet, but i use the lens mostly wide open, anyway.



Feb 21, 2008 at 03:48 PM
you2
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


Did you notice the ca or sensor blooming with the canon 85mm that the zeiss lacked ?



Feb 21, 2008 at 08:06 PM
chris hwang
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · contax 85/1.4 bokeh at f/2-2.8


yeah, the canon 85/1.8 was VERY GOOD for the price, the ZEISS runs around 2.5x more than the 85/1.8 (then again the Zeiss is 85/1.4). But I did notice more CA on the canon than the zeiss, and canon lenses as usual run very warm (red tint) compared to the more cool zeiss.


Feb 22, 2008 at 02:59 PM





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