20D banding example

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Archive 2004 · 20D banding example

jperkinson
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p.1 #1 · 20D banding example

This is a serious issue and it's effecting about 20% of my night exposures... Just got this camera too... Sucks bad...

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Nov 30, 2004 at 01:13 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #2 · 20D banding example

I had the same problem .not as severe as that though.
if u use photoshop raw converter..turn the sharpining all the way down. color and liminance noice reduction to 100% . adust the contrast slider all the way to the left. This fixd the problem for me. After the raw file is converted you can use levels and curves then to make any adjustments

Nov 30, 2004 at 01:58 AM

jperkinson
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p.1 #3 · 20D banding example

Hi N,

This was converted using DPP I did bump contrast slightly to show the banding more. I don't have Photoshop CS yet.

This is just a pisser. I can't believe this went unnoticed by Canon (or if it didn't go unnoticed I'd be even more pissed).

I believe it could be an electrical interference problem, but it's hard to speculate too much.

I guess I'm going to have to bracket a lot on my longer exposures...

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:05 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #4 · 20D banding example

Try the eos viewer to convert the same raw file if u still have it.
My pics coverted in dpp are so noisy..i stopped using it. can you see that banding in lcd screen after u took the shot?
do have the custom function set to on or off for noise reduction for long exposures?

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:11 AM

jperkinson
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p.1 #5 · 20D banding example

Same thing in FVU. I agree about noise in DPP, it's pretty bad...

I didn't use noise reduction on that particular shot, but I tested it on 3 others last night...

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:22 AM

akclimber
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p.1 #6 · 20D banding example

Hi John, That's very disturbing. Were you using a flash (why would you with night sky exposures, I know, but I'm trying to get an idea of the nature of the problem since I shoot long exposure aurora images and am considering an upgrade to my 10D). Personally, I'd send this camera back, either to the retailer or to Canono for repair or replacement.

Sorry to see your banding troubles!

Cheers!

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:27 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #7 · 20D banding example

What kind of lens and did it have a filter on it?

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:30 AM

jperkinson
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p.1 #8 · 20D banding example

Hi Joe,

The problem can be created easily with the onboard flash..! I obviously don't use onboard flash on night exposures like this one though...

I was using a Sigma 15-30 EX lens here, with no filter.

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:40 AM

BrianP
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p.1 #9 · 20D banding example

jperkinson wrote:
Hi Joe,

The problem can be created easily with the onboard flash..! I obviously don't use onboard flash on night exposures like this one though...

I was using a Sigma 15-30 EX lens here, with no filter.

What ISO?

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:51 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #10 · 20D banding example

i want to duplicate the shot...i have 17-40 mm ...what where your settings..for the shot ...I am assuming that is the out of focus?

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:52 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #11 · 20D banding example

moon..sorry

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:52 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #12 · 20D banding example

moon..sorry

Nov 30, 2004 at 02:52 AM

jperkinson
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p.1 #13 · 20D banding example

ISO 400

Basically if you want to reproduce it easily, go into a room with contrasty light (shadows are good). Use your on board flash at higher ISOs (400 and up).

Why it's doing this *without* onboard flash is beyond me...

Nov 30, 2004 at 03:12 AM

kawter2
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p.1 #14 · 20D banding example

Nchakos wrote:
i want to duplicate the shot...i have 17-40 mm ...what where your settings..for the shot ...I am assuming that is the out of focus?

I'd be interested in this too

Nov 30, 2004 at 05:38 AM

james m
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p.1 #15 · 20D banding example

jperkinson wrote:
Why it's doing this *without* onboard flash is beyond me...

Fancy running into you here John ....

I might have to get out with 20D's once I get some time and do some nite shots to see if I get the banding as well.

Nov 30, 2004 at 06:08 AM

Nchakos
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p.1 #16 · 20D banding example

I took 32 indoor shots aperture priority ,fixed 250, all pics came out fine , zero banding ..just color noise in the shadows . I think u should return your copy.

Nov 30, 2004 at 04:18 PM

Tom_W
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p.1 #17 · 20D banding example

What's the exif data for that shot? It seems to have severe overexposure along with some serious flare.

In fact, the banding almost resembles kind of a "linear flare" on the sensor or microlens filter that might occur under the same extreme conditions that would cause heavy flare on a lens.

Nov 30, 2004 at 04:53 PM

jdee
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p.1 #18 · 20D banding example

This topic has been discussed many times before on this forum but with no solution or remedy for those who it effects. Many believe that it is a problem with the camera design, not something that Canon will fix under warranty.

Everyone who has fired the onboard flash on long exposures so far has gotten severe banding even at low iso. Of course it is very rare that anyone would need to do this so this is a non-issue for most.

However, many people, including myself, have noticed banding at iso 800-3200 quite frequently without firing the flash. Whether this is caused by the focusing motor in some lenses, or some other interference is not really known, but I get banding in about 30% of my iso 1600 if there are dark shadows.

This banding has nothing to do with the quality of the file or whether the picture is taken in RAW or JPEG. Those who have spoke to Canon so far have not gotten an expectable explanation for the cause, and I have not heard of anyone who sent the camera back for warranty with success.

All of us who have this problem would love to have a solution surface, but so far we are still waiting...

Nov 30, 2004 at 06:14 PM

toonhorse
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p.1 #19 · 20D banding example

Nov 30, 2004 at 06:20 PM

dbarthel
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p.1 #20 · 20D banding example

Send it back to Canon. Clearly a defective body.

Nov 30, 2004 at 06:54 PM

jdee
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p.1 #21 · 20D banding example

Justin, I've seen those threads recently however I have one question I'm curious about. In the 30% of pictures that do show banding, does NeatImage or anything else help clean it up? I've heard some people say yes and some say no. just curious as to your take on that.

Nope, neat image does not clean up the image. Someone over at dpreview wrote an action for photoshop that recognizes the banding and it seems to work fairly well, but it's a hassle to use.

Send it back to Canon. Clearly a defective body.

And as far as everyone sending their cameras back to Canon, I don't really see the point if there is no fix. Again, everyone who has fired the internal flash on a long exposure has gotten very bad banding in dark areas. I believe this is the only consistent way to check for banding and if there were people who did this test and did not see any banding than I would say that we all have defective cameras. However, most think it is a design flaw with the camera and not a defect.

Nov 30, 2004 at 09:05 PM

dbarthel
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p.1 #22 · 20D banding example

EJ Peiker had the same problem with a brand new 1Ds-II. He returned it and the next one was just fine. I'd sure try sending it to Canon rather than just giving up. Be sure to send a sample image with the camera.

Nov 30, 2004 at 09:29 PM

toonhorse
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p.1 #23 · 20D banding example

I was so set on buying the 20D this december and this is the only thing that has given me pause. I don't plan to take many long exposure shots, but as others have noted the banding can also occur on other types of shots (including high ISO ones). I guess I'm kind of in a holding pattern right now hoping that something can be done about it. Looks like a hardware/design issue though so I'm not sure what I will do. . . . .

Nov 30, 2004 at 09:30 PM

JCDoss
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p.1 #24 · 20D banding example

jdee wrote:
However, many people, including myself, have noticed banding at iso 800-3200 quite frequently without firing the flash. Whether this is caused by the focusing motor in some lenses, or some other interference is not really known, but I get banding in about 30% of my iso 1600 if there are dark shadows.

This banding has nothing to do with the quality of the file or whether the picture is taken in RAW or JPEG. Those who have spoke to Canon so far have not gotten an expectable explanation for the cause, and I have not heard of anyone who sent the camera back for warranty with success.

All of us who have this problem would love to have a solution surface, but so far we are still waiting...

Count me as one of those affected, too. My issues are exactly as Justin describes them. Maybe 25-35% of my ISO 3200 shots are affected, regardless if it's RAW or JPG (although admittedly I haven't shot much RAW in the past couple weeks). It has nothing to do with the internal flash. Here's an example... this is the upper left corner, cropped, then downsized:

Settings are as follows: ISO3200, Av, zero compensation, no flash, Sigma 100-300/2xTC, Manual focus, Parameters: B/W, 2/5 contrast, 4/5 sharpness, red filter, toning effect off.

I was just playing around with converters and decided to play with B/W mode, but it occurs at "average" focal lengths and with other sets of parameters.

I would consider returning it, but I want to hear a success story before I go that far.

Nov 30, 2004 at 11:14 PM


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