I really appeciated PCB's technical input and recognize that he had a way of responding to the incessant prodding that created a cyclical scenario, i.e. it takes two to tango.
Having been accused of 'gobbledygook' myself on multiple occassions, your 'sticky thread' point may have some merit ... too bad it didn't come prior to the "regulars" getting annoyed and themselves fueling things to try and put an end to 'gobbledygook' as they like to call it whenever someone tries to provide detailed information.
There are always new people coming through ... and mostly 'lurking', so while the repetitive/lengthy/technical information may not be the answer that some would give (and get tired of seeing), it usually is an effort to "teach a man to fish" rather than "give him a fish for a day". Regulars bashing on those who take the time and effort to provide such posts really does little to foster things. Repeatedly bashing on those who provide "canned" posts (which I learned to simply scroll past) and bashing on those who try to tailor to the OP (albeit lengthy) adds little value (did someone say something about quality vs. quantity) either.
BTW ... do the regular bashers ever stop long enough to think that others "get tired" of their bashing. Bashing on those who are making lengthy/canned contributions (even if some are tired of seeing them) really is in jeapordy of sending a "wrong" or "elitist" message to the vastly greater number of lurkers who might otherwise begin contributing.
Sadly, a lot of damage has been done, causing multiple, knowledgeable & experienced people (much more so than I'll ever be) to grow weary of having to fight to help others, and have simply chosen to 'bow out' (PCB excepted). The fallout from the "civil war" has produced numerous casualties on both sides ... time to rebuild.
I like the idea of the Sticky Posts ... I could see a LOT of sticky posts being generated. But, I think you might be on to something that could help restore some "post-damage" value. Good thinking.
I'll say this as nicely as I can: you're taking yourself WAY too seriously on the whole gobblygook thing. You can read what I do in my profile but suffice it to say I probably understand the physics of light, optics and the general technicals of a camera systems better than most here. Not all, but most. Sometimes your posts are too esoteric for me to even understand why you wrote it, and sometimes it's flat out wrong. I'm on the lighting forum to get practical, boots-on-the-ground level understanding of lighting and have a hard time believing that lurker folks come to a photo forum for basic physics lessons.
Long, canned posts have no purpose on a forum. If one wants such material, either stickies or off-site links are the best way to communicate that. Actually, long posts in general are useless: more writing does not mean more information, but often means more confusion.
Stickies would be good, but being concise and terse are hallmarks of technical writing.
Yes ... I know that I'm not very good at being clear & concise often times. I'll see if I can make an effort to be more concise / use links more in the forum.
I used to check here twice a day, and often posted. It's just not the same without Paul. He came up with the technical info I couldn't get anywhere else. He had his quirks, but the info kept me interested. I still hang out on other FM forums here, but went to Buff's forum for up to date lighting topics. After reading some of the posts from a few here in months past, bad feelings linger for me. I've largely moved on. Oh, I still shoot at night, outdoors though. I was out chasing trains in northern South Dakota until 4 AM last Saturday night.
Simon, shatterkiss, was a great poster. Miss Simon.
PCB never met an argument he did not like; several on this forum saw that, met that need. Both sides, imho, would argue ad hominem and subsequently point the proverbial finger at the other? huh; yeah really. Problem for Paul, it was always Paul and another, or several others in the verbal skirmish. So ba-bye Paul.
Too bad; he had tons of great tech info.
Hopefully this foum will pick up soon. Lots of good folks hanging around and checking in from time to time.
PCB never met an argument he did not like; several on this forum saw that, met that need.
Yup ... many against one.
Basically a cyber-game of "knock-out" that others knew PCB's personality couldn't withstand forever. People knew it and continued to pursue it, albeit feigning otherwise, pretending to be "guardians of the forum" ... Total BS. Cost us plenty in the form of both PCB and the many others who saw the BS & bailed.
Normally, it takes two to tango ... but this time it was many that intentionally exacerbated the scenario. There was never a shortage of people looking to "Tango" with PCB. Most everyone knows about PCB ... but few know how many warnings Fred sent out to other members to stop baiting him ... some have since moved on (with nothing to argumentatively "contribute" following PCB's departure), some have not.
Anyone foolish enough to think it was all PCB ... has been thoroughly duped.
Yeah, they finally got his goat enough that he got booted (twice). WOW, good job guys ... it took a long time, but you're persistence finally paid off and the forum is "all better now" ... or at least more the way YOU want it to be. We should have an FM parade to celebrate all the hard work the anti-PCB hero's endured to achieve their goal. PCB is not the ONLY one that this has been done to, but he likely is the most notable, others have simply grown weary & left without any fanfare.
Whether you're a PCB "fan-boy" or can't stand the "kook" ( Alien Bees ) or the way he runs HIS business or hate HIS products, he was an FM member and was ardently antagonized by other FM members. I just never understood why select FM members feel so compelled to "oust" or "shut down" other FM'ers. If you didn't like what he had to say, skip it, scroll it, hide it or just plain ignore it ... why put forth so much effort to run him (i.e. booted) and others (weary and leave) away just because it's not the way YOU want it to be??
No, the lighting forum isn't "dead" ... but it sure is different.
Tom Dix wrote:
Simon, shatterkiss, was a great poster. Miss Simon.
Ditto Simon and Carmen Miranda...and the troll bait. Funny how the trolls didn't think there was such a thing as the opposite of a fanboy too...yin/yang...takes two to tango, etc.
I don't bother w/ this forum much any more either and it's probably better off dead IMHO. Even the MM silliness is better than the vitriol it was.
kenyee wrote:
Funny how the trolls didn't think there was such a thing as the opposite of a fanboy too...yin/yang...takes two to tango, etc.
It left a bad taste in my mouth that one or two of the obvious trolls who constantly baited Paul weren't tossed at the same time. Paul should have showed more self control when it came to the obvious ankle-biters. Anyway, I've moved on to different forums.
It's not dead!
The Lighting & Studio Techniques board never really took off like the other boards on FM. There is a lot of technical discussion going on here but sometimes as photographers, we need something more "visual".
I was thinking on the following: For a while, fashion photographers (who are very technical with their lighting) have been asking for their own board. We could add this category to the lighting board and make it a little more dynamic.
We could call it "Lighting, Fashion & Studio Techniques" Or "Lighting and Fashion photography". It would be a presentation AND technical board. How does that sound?
Fred
Fred--I think that's very fair, and I agree that this subforum hasn't ever been as active as other gear subforums. I prefer the former title to the latter.
The lighting and fashion/posing/etc was a lot of what we've presently lost here. Shame we lost a few contributors in the process, but more appropriately it's an ebb cycle. This subforum got mired with too much hardware not enough technique--not that I'm terribly qualified to help in either sense (yet!).
Well, we would have models but we could include product photography as well.
My intent is to have the lighting discussions applied to presentation like products, models.............railfan , etc...
Fred
kenyee wrote:
Ditto Simon and Carmen Miranda...and the troll bait. Funny how the trolls didn't think there was such a thing as the opposite of a fanboy too...yin/yang...takes two to tango, etc.
I don't bother w/ this forum much any more either and it's probably better off dead IMHO. Even the MM silliness is better than the vitriol it was.
I was a troll once! I got banned for looking at a rendering and determine that the product would overheat, and BINGO, it did Boy what a mess that could have been avoided!
I have never got anything from Fred (except a ban), but I can guaranty anyone he is a very fair forum owner. Who cares if all those guys are gone, we know who they are, no one even ask for them anyway!
It’s not dead it’s just clean!
Fred Miranda wrote:
It's not dead!
The Lighting & Studio Techniques board never really took off like the other boards on FM.
Most people don't get beyond talking about the 'gear', using it is sometimes quite alien to them. Forums with easily identifiable 'gear' headings are easy to gravitate towards, but only attracts contributors of similar mentality.
ukphotographer wrote:
Most people don't get beyond talking about the 'gear', using it is sometimes quite alien to them. Forums with easily identifiable 'gear' headings are easy to gravitate towards, but only attracts contributors of similar mentality.
My opinion; Don't fix it. It aint broke.
Even though I shoot a lot of fashion, I fully agree. No need to muddy the waters and combine what could/should(?) be two separate forums. A lot of people are lighting things that have nothing to do with fashion, so including fashion in the title could be confusing and potentially lead to silly fights about what's appropriate in this forum and what isn't. Imho, leave it as a lighting forum, for those that want to learn the technical aspect of lighting, no matter how they may choose utilize that knowledge (whether it's fashion, product, or trains.)
) or the way he runs HIS business or hate HIS products, he was an FM member and was ardently antagonized by other FM members. I just never understood why select FM members feel so compelled to "oust" or "shut down" other FM'ers. If you didn't like what he had to say, skip it, scroll it, hide it or just plain ignore it ... why put forth so much effort to run him (i.e. booted) and others (weary and leave) away just because it's not the way YOU want it to be??
, etc...
Lighting, Trains, and Nudes Wearing Product