iggyfenton
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Upload & Sell: Off
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 Re: Photo Credentials. Why? | |
Steve Ickes wrote:
Sorry to go a bit OT but hey, it\'s my thread so....
iggyfenton wrote:
Amen Jon!
I\'m not a working pro, but an aspiring amateur. I have shot sidelines at DIII football and a lot of games/events that do not require credentials.
But I WANT A CREDENTIAL!
Why do I want a credential? Because that’s the Pros!
Why do kids in high school want to play for the Yankees? To be a Pro!
Not sure I\'d say that playing for the Yankees is the same as photographing the Yankees.
I\'m not sure that what I said was wrong. I think that if you desire to be a Pro photographer then you want to be there on the sidelines. Maybe it doesn\'t have the recognition of being a Pro Athlete, but it\'s more personal and specific goal.
It’s the goal and everyone wants a quick path to their goals. It may not be the wisest move to jump to the Pro level early, but if you can get a taste it may help you along the way.
I’ll make enemies here by saying this, but I could care less if the pros hate me if I get one before they feel I’ve ‘earned it’.
What you fail to realize is that no one is going to \"hate\" you. First of all if we\'re shooting a game we\'re too busy to worry about what others are doing. Secondly, we have no way of knowing whether or not you \"earned\" your credential or not nor do we care.
I\'m not sure I said the Pros during that event, but the members this board. If you have no way of knowing then why even have the discussion?
At the DIII events I shoot I say out of the way of the Pros and I’ve never sold a shot from a team that has a staff Pro. That’s his job and I respect that, but it’s my hobby and my passion and If I work to get the access then I deserve every inch of turf he does.
Actually no one is deserving of anything, credential or not. I regularly shoot Phillies baseball from the first and third base photo wells. There are two additional shooting areas, both on either side of home plate, closer than the wells I shoot from. These are only large enough for two shooters in each. They are also clearly marked as reserved for AP, the Phillies photographers, and the Philadelphia paper. I certainly don\'t think that I deserve to occupy either of those spaces simply because I have a credential. I might get in there for half an inning IF its unoccupied but telling the AP photographer that I have a right to be there is the quickest way to get tossed out and possibly never get credentialed again.
Same holds true when covering Flyers. I\'d love to be able to shoot from a hole down on the ice every time but its not up to me. Find the press guy, get your shooting position and love it no matter what. Its no fun shooting from the main concourse level especially when you see a hole or two open but you know what? You deal with it. You thank the press guy, chat him up, remain polite and courteous and maybe, just maybe, the next time you ask for a position on the ice you\'ll get it . . . but then again maybe not. A credential IS NOT A GOLDEN TICKET for anyone. There is no entitlement. That kind of attitude will get you shown the door never to be invited back again.
I think you read waaaaaaaaaay too much into my comment. Of course I can\'t go everywhere. Camera wells and specific assigned shooting spaces are to be respected. I\'m not sure why you think I feel entitled to everything.
I was speaking that if I am assigned the hole in the glass at an NHL game it does not matter if another photographer feels I\'ve earned it. Just like if a Coach gives the Rookie a start over a veteran he is not going to hand it back over to him because he didn\'t pay enough \'dues\' in the mind of the veteran.
I think that working photographers are pretty elitist about getting access and shooting sidelines. The post above mine confirms that suspicion.
Lee\'s post exhibited no sense of elitism as you\'ve suggested. He simply presented the facts as they are. Therein lies the problem. Experienced pros are telling aspiring sports photographers how it is, what the rules of the game are. The perception is that we\'ve (the pros) have somehow written these rules. We haven\'t. They are the rules, policies, and procedures that have been put into place by venues and organizers. We ALL follow them because failing to do so impacts everyone. Rather than come in here with a chip on your shoulder why not listen to what is being said and understand that\'s how it works? Learning and living by those rules will serve to get you to your goals a lot quicker than thumbing your nose at them.
Again, I have done everything \'the right way\' as you say. If you took 10 minutes to look at my flickr site you would have seen that I have been taking shots from the stands, going to pee-wee football and I asked the AD at a DIII school politely to get access to shoot football and other sports. But it was you rushing to judgment that I \'thumb my nose at the rules\'. And the chip on your shoulder that prevented you from taking the time to look at my work and is the reason why I feel there is an elitist attitude.
The \"it\'s for working professionals only\" argument makes everyone who does not that specific criteria a lesser class of shooter. That is the definition of elitist. And the cedentials may say that phrase specificly, but if you are wearing one, you qualify.
They seem to disregard your request for tips and support especially if they work in your area. It’s like a Pro Athlete shunning a rookie or charging for autographs. They must forget what it was like to be a fan or desire to be a Pro, so they are unwilling to do the things for the next generation of Pros.
I\'ll readily admit that sure some of the pros might be A-holes, but then again that\'s the way they probably are all the time has nothing necessarily to do with photography. Also keep in mind that if you\'re there and you\'re credentialed, then we\'re assuming you already know what your doing. If I get a question along the lines of \"What\'s best, A, M, or P mode\" then yes you might get the cold shoulder. Remember these guys have worked hard for years, they\'ve paid their dues and while I\'m sure they\'ve had help along the way, I think the general attitude is if they did it through hard work then you should too. For instance, I never asked, \"Hey what\'s the easiest, quickest way to get a credential?\" I did the research and the legwork, figured out what needed to be done and did it myself.
And I did that too. I found and called an AD and was granted a credential. I didn\'t ask anyone how to get one I did my research. And, I love how you play me off as a total moron who doesn\'t know the different basic shooting modes. I would never stop someone in the middle of their job to ask them questions. And I\'ve never asked \'what is the quickest way to get credentials?\".
I do not like this guy you\'ve made me out to be.
Someday I’ll get a credential and be able to shoot my local pro team, ‘Legitimate’ or not. If I’m there next to you on the sidelines, I belong there.
And herein lies the biggest difference between you and I, your sense of entitlement. Whether or not you \"belong there\" is relative. The credential may get you there but whether or not you belong there is something you need to prove, to your clients, the spectators, other members of the media, and to those who gave you that credential.
Again. It\'s not that I am entitled to it. It that if I\'m there I have already proven to someone who makes decisions, that I belong there. Therefore the approval of other members of the media is unnecessary.
The person you assumed that I am is a real jerk. Too bad you didn\'t take 5 min to see what kind of person I really am.
I think I\'ll change my name to \'Strawman\'
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